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Smoke and mirrors.

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tyder001

Paranormal Adept
I was doing some thinking the other day about how long I have been looking around these forums and others. The u.f.o. myth is something that I have enjoyed at times and I still hold out the possibility of there being actual "meat" there somewhere. But, alas as with the Kennedy assasination and the illumminatie it is fun to speculate but there isn't any real hard proof. Leslie Keane and Col Alexander are provocative. But, for everyone of them there is a Steven Greer or a Billy Meir. People like Ted Phillips and Ray Stanford come on and say here is the smoking gun. But, it turns out to be more "he said, she said" than anything solid. Honestly, I am just getting burned out on the whole thing. I started on this forum around 4 years ago with a very open mind toward alien intelligence. I now find that there is no more proof or solid evidence of anything than there was when I started. Well, let me correct myself. I haven't seen any more proof or solid evidence. I honestly hope that someday Stanton Friedman will find his nuts and bolts craft and be able to bitch slap James Randi or Michael Shermer. Or Chris will find that Trickster and be able to tell Paul Kimball "I told ya so." But, I highly doubt it at this point. Right now I would have to say that there may be intelligent life on some other planet somehwere. But, it isn't interacting with the earth and never has been. Oh well, I'm in a funk about the paranormal as a whole and especially u.f.o.'s in particular today. I'll hang up and listen. :cool:
 
There are plenty of FOIA documents that verify that UFOs do exist and have been encountered by military and commercial aviators. Books like "Clear Intent" reproduce these documents. We can speculate about their origin and purposes but it seems clear that the military as a whole does not recognize them as theirs. It's a mystery for sure, but there are things flying in the skies that have been observed, recorded, and filmed by the military that defy any explanation they can give to them. Does that mean they are alien? Your guess is as good as mine. Query your implant. You've seen one so according to the lore there is a high probability that you have been tagged and returned to the wild.
 
I was doing some thinking the other day about how long I have been looking around these forums and others. The u.f.o. myth is something that I have enjoyed at times and I still hold out the possibility of there being actual "meat" there somewhere. But, alas as with the Kennedy assasination and the illumminatie it is fun to speculate but there isn't any real hard proof. Leslie Keane and Col Alexander are provocative. But, for everyone of them there is a Steven Greer or a Billy Meir. People like Ted Phillips and Ray Stanford come on and say here is the smoking gun. But, it turns out to be more "he said, she said" than anything solid. Honestly, I am just getting burned out on the whole thing. I started on this forum around 4 years ago with a very open mind toward alien intelligence. I now find that there is no more proof or solid evidence of anything than there was when I started. Well, let me correct myself. I haven't seen any more proof or solid evidence. I honestly hope that someday Stanton Friedman will find his nuts and bolts craft and be able to bitch slap James Randi or Michael Shermer. Or Chris will find that Trickster and be able to tell Paul Kimball "I told ya so." But, I highly doubt it at this point. Right now I would have to say that there may be intelligent life on some other planet somehwere. But, it isn't interacting with the earth and never has been. Oh well, I'm in a funk about the paranormal as a whole and especially u.f.o.'s in particular today. I'll hang up and listen. :cool:
I'm amazed that after all the years since my first UFO sighting in 1976; people are still debating over whether or not the UFO phenomenon exists. I don't know their point of origin, but I do know there is some thing here. I am not going to try and prove anything to anybody.
 
We can speculate about their origin and purposes but it seems clear that the military as a whole does not recognize them as theirs.
The problem is that some UFO promoters are content to portray just about any unknown aerial encounter as an alien intrusion (even if it is fairly obvious it is a conventional aircraft just flying where it doesn't belong). Part of the problem is that they are in an industry under pressure to present some new material, and genuine UFO cases are rare. For them it is better to have a mystery, than a solved case of a IFO.
 
The problem is that some UFO promoters are content to portray just about any unknown aerial encounter as an alien intrusion (even if it is fairly obvious it is a conventional aircraft just flying where it doesn't belong). Part of the problem is that they are in an industry under pressure to present some new material, and genuine UFO cases are rare. For them it is better to have a mystery, than a solved case of a IFO.

I agree. We see that being played out in Mexico with their ridiculous balloon videos and so forth.

This is the same situation with crop circle researchers. It is against the business model to solve the mystery or to acknowledge contrary evidence to your pet hypothesis.
 
I did indeed have a sighting T.O. ;) More than once actually. But, ufo doesn't mean nuts and bolts off planet. I just don't see the proof that we are being visited. But, I was in a little bit of a funk this AM so I'll keep searching the skies. :cool:
 
I did indeed have a sighting T.O. ;) More than once actually. But, ufo doesn't mean nuts and bolts off planet. I just don't see the proof that we are being visited. But, I was in a little bit of a funk this AM so I'll keep searching the skies. :cool:

Yes, yes, you're in the database here. Left nostril, model x0238 tracking and programming implant, swapped out for the smaller xq6 series later on.

I get the "being visited" thing. Well you know, maybe they are just fellow residents we haven't or can't make the acquaintance of for some odd reason. Could be they're allergic to us. I think they're just snooty.
 
I just thought I would chime in for a minute. "Proof" is a foolhardy expectation. The only "proof" that will ever happen is the proverbial White House lawn landing and subsequent joint Alien/Human announcement. 100% of anything else will always be mired in speculation and interpretive differences of opinion.

However, we can NOT deny that the phenomena exists. Mass hysteria, figments of imagination, and hoaxes do not physically manifest themselves in hard radar returns. Origin can and should be debated until the WHLL (or whatever other confirmative event) happens. What can, has, and continues to be accomplished is the semi-meticulous cataloging of detail concerning the various and sundry elements of a broader encompassing set of phenomena. From these things we can, in my opinion, begin to narrow down the list of probable origin/source.

For instance it is much more probable that the broad phenomena is of E.T. origin than being the mirage-like mind projections of the White-Lined Sphinx Moth. Yet, just about the same amount of hard evidence exists for both hypothetical models. But given the enormity of space, the Drake Equation, the ratio of exo-planet discovery, and the predicted percentage of sun like stars in just our own galaxy means there is a 100% certainty that we are not the only sentient self aware biological society currently inhabiting the universe. Currently there is no real evidence that the White-Lined Sphinx Moth has a mind to speak of. Much less a way to project it thoughts into our perceptual reality.

So even though biologists and astronomers will shoot down the respective hypothesis with equal vigor, if we are honest with ourselves the ETH is more probable than the MMPH(Moth Mind Projection Hypothesis...copyright Ron Collins 2012). This is why the major hypothesis's have withstood the rigors of time. Sadly, and with great regret, I must relegate the MMPH to the bottom of the probability list.

As with anything worth investigating, we don't know what we don't know yet. We probably aren't even asking the right questions. After all, this investigation (while over 100 years old) is in its infancy/toddler stages. With any luck our knowledge of these phenomena will grow until one day we have a series of answers and a better list of questions. Until then we should view the phenomena as a journey to be taken not an equation to be proved.
 
Hang in there Tyder you have climbed this far down the rabbit hole you may as well see what is around the next bend.

The only problem, as I have read before, is not the depth of the hole but all the rabbit shit you have to climb through on the way down.

Like many here I have had a few unexplained sightings (one only a few weeks ago) so I do think there is a genuine phenomenon to be explored, but like anything that is considered fringe by the main stream it attracts the retards and the shysters who will muddy the water for sure.

If there is a mission for those who would stay in this field, then let it be our duty to weed out the shysters and come down hard on the true believers...... think of it as sifting the dross to find the gold in this particular pan.

Just like you I have over the past few years become more and more disillusioned with the whole UFO field, helped in part by the exposure of frauds and hoax after hoax it grinds on you to the point where you think it is all just a pile of BS.

But now and then you read a report or listen to an interview that makes me think that yes there are people out there who genuinely take this field seriously and are trying to get to the bottom of it all.

Other than that I have nothing else to offer than just to hang in there.

Peace.
 
I just thought I would chime in for a minute. "Proof" is a foolhardy expectation. The only "proof" that will ever happen is the proverbial White House lawn landing and subsequent joint Alien/Human announcement. 100% of anything else will always be mired in speculation and interpretive differences of opinion.

However, we can NOT deny that the phenomena exists. Mass hysteria, figments of imagination, and hoaxes do not physically manifest themselves in hard radar returns. Origin can and should be debated until the WHLL (or whatever other confirmative event) happens. What can, has, and continues to be accomplished is the semi-meticulous cataloging of detail concerning the various and sundry elements of a broader encompassing set of phenomena. From these things we can, in my opinion, begin to narrow down the list of probable origin/source.

For instance it is much more probable that the broad phenomena is of E.T. origin than being the mirage-like mind projections of the White-Lined Sphinx Moth. Yet, just about the same amount of hard evidence exists for both hypothetical models. But given the enormity of space, the Drake Equation, the ratio of exo-planet discovery, and the predicted percentage of sun like stars in just our own galaxy means there is a 100% certainty that we are not the only sentient self aware biological society currently inhabiting the universe. Currently there is no real evidence that the White-Lined Sphinx Moth has a mind to speak of. Much less a way to project it thoughts into our perceptual reality.

So even though biologists and astronomers will shoot down the respective hypothesis with equal vigor, if we are honest with ourselves the ETH is more probable than the MMPH(Moth Mind Projection Hypothesis...copyright Ron Collins 2012). This is why the major hypothesis's have withstood the rigors of time. Sadly, and with great regret, I must relegate the MMPH to the bottom of the probability list.

As with anything worth investigating, we don't know what we don't know yet. We probably aren't even asking the right questions. After all, this investigation (while over 100 years old) is in its infancy/toddler stages. With any luck our knowledge of these phenomena will grow until one day we have a series of answers and a better list of questions. Until then we should view the phenomena as a journey to be taken not an equation to be proved.

It depends, in part, on what your expectations are. There is no commercial incentive to invest in UFO research. Sure, there is Robert Bigelow, and possibly defense contractors interested in discovering new technology, but that information would not be made available to the general public. NASA, and the Military Industrial Complex have instrumentation and technology that could be used to collect evidence acceptable to the scientific community. They may already have that evidence. If I recorded one of the spheres, hovering, at close range in high definition and there were 5 witnesses: People would say what is it? That is a strange anomaly. It would not send shock waves reverberating through the scientific community. One important question that needs to be asked is this: What is the relevancy and importance of the phenomenon to humanity? Are they just casual observers or is there something else happening?
 
Good points Stonehart. I guess I've always been a little bit down the rabbit hole. It's just that it appears to be a long damn hole. ;) I do agree we need to shift through the bullshit to find the gold. I think that's true of the human experience on the whole.
 
Hey, Tyder, no, it's not old age, it's not your fault, you are experiencing a genuine reaction and it should be heeded. I in no way discount the possible existence of intelligent extraterrestrials, but the Drake equation won't get you there, that's for sure. If intelligent extraterrestrials exist and if we ever have "contact" with these anthropomorphized beings, it will not defy any beliefs of mine, or shake my belief in science or in any theological construct that I hold, but do heed that rationality within yourself. The feelings of malaise, of weariness, that beset your soul in your search for UFOs, are not to be dismissed.

Now, however, the following deep and insightful encouragements from your fellow searchers may cause you to not to heed my advice, old fellow, aged nearly to my six decades:

"Hang in there, Tyder."
"there are things flying in the skies"
"100% certainty that we are not the only sentient self-aware biological society"
"Drake equation"
the field of UFOs is "over 100 years old"
"you have climbed this far down the rabbit hole you may as well see what is around the next bend"
"there is a mission for those who would stay in this field, then let it be our duty"
"Like many here I have had unexplained sightings (ONE ONLY A FEW WEEKS AGO)" Capitals mine.

Now, you can put your faith in the above prescient comments and continue with Alice, encouraged by Charles Dodgson, motivated by John Tenniel's illustrations, even construct totemic representations to constantly remind you of your experience and of your feelings that yes, you want to know and you want them to return, or you can heed the voice within. And even I, for one, will remain curious as to just what does constitute the UFO phenomenon. I am indeed curious, but also reflect your increasing dubiousness and fatigue.

The ancient prophets of over 100 years plead with you, however, to abandon the voice within. Their venerated scriptures of these many decades call you. You want to believe. You want to embrace these occupants of these "things flying the skies," of these craft denoting the "unexplained sightings......one only a few weeks ago."

They implore you to do as they have done, substitute one "god," rooted in their perceived belief that scientists support it, of intelligent extraterrestrials, nay, vast civilizations and societies of intelligent anthropomorphized beings, for another which is a product of our own feeble and deluded minds, created for the exploitation of our own humanity, antithetical to science, and a delusion fictionalized over centuries.

What they worship, and implore you to return to, is, scientifically, statistically, anthropologically, technologically, culturally, historically, and on and on, well nigh impossible to rationally believe in, that evolution, science, technology, culture, history, and on and on, would/could even remotely duplicate what has happened on our planet. Now, other intelligent beings MAY, remotely, exist, but to anthropomorphize them, right down to their craft, to such an extreme, speaks to its very real and probable own roots in delusion, albeit "based" on personal experience ("one only a few weeks ago"), science, technology, biology, history, and on and on. Sorry, that sentence went on and on.

Now, indeed, we are getting someplace, in my opinion. Carl Jung, as we all know (and I've read everything by the guy, whom I hold in high esteem), wrote his Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies. In fact, I just reread it a few days ago to refresh myself. Jung dances around and around their actual existence, as is his style in his writings, and this is a tribute to him, but constantly comes back to our own psyches, the very depth of our brains, and it's sometimes hard slogging, but it can be done, and analysis of ourselves is more at the root of the phenomenon, despite "hard radar" and "best cases." In fact, Jung is very clear.

I believe, and I have said in before on other threads, that what some people deny within themselves, what they well nigh hate within themselves, is acknowledgement of anything remotely smacking of what they can call religion. They project this onto others. They substitute one "god" which they think satisfies their rationality, for another they despise because it signifies to them weakness, in fact a form of dislike/hatred for the human they are.

I think this thing is precious, began tens and tens of thousands of years ago, in my opinion before the humans anthropologists formally denote as, per se, Homo Sapiens. Certainly we see this in very gorgeous and awe-inspiring artifacts and cave paintings, and the "trend" or evolution of this continues to this day. When the spark actually appeared, I don't presume to know. I have termed this long ago spark with my own convoluted and inadequate phrase: quasi/proto/primitive/remote/tiny/ and on and on. I think this spark has slowly grown over who knows how many, many years of evolution, and some people, and I don't presume to call myself one of them, have experienced this spark as a flame, and have been testaments to its evolution. I won't go any further on that.

But I think this little ember of long ago in our beginnings does not necessarily disappear in its proto/primitive/quasi form. The experiencers of phenomena we enjoy hearing about, listening to, ruminating over, etc., and, especially in my opinion present in so-called "alien abductions" for which sleep paralysis is even denied to the point of wishing for the "visitors" to return, is a from of this, yes, "religion." And I think a convenient refuge is taken in anthropomorphizing this reality to intelligent extraterrestrials, to the point of absurdity. Yes, if psychosis, as discussed on another thread, is the reason, end of matter. If sleep paralysis is the answer, end of matter. But if persistence in the hope that the visitors may return is exhibited, then I think religion, albeit hated within, in my opinion, is the answer.

So, keep on going down the rabbit hole. I think the rabbit hole is a good analogy, but remember that "the next bend" is right back to your own mind, and what's wrong with that? But don't think attributing the "unexplained sightings........one only a few weeks ago" to science, to rationality, removes you from that awful taint of that spark you may despise.

All tongue in cheek, of course. And the "you," Tyder, is oftentimes not meant specifically to YOU, but as the plural WE. :) Kim
 
If there is in fact validity to aerial anomalies and paranormal phenomena, I’ll put my money on Vallee, Jung, Alexander, Bigelow, Mckenna, Salisbury, Kastrup, Lanza, Aubeck, Guillemant, Fermi, and a host of others. I guess that leaves Friedman, LMH, and Steve Geere/Bassett for the rest, as they have not produced one nut or bolt over the last sixty years, and in probability never will.
 
Here, this should cheer you up. Scroll down to 2-4-06, Colm Kelleher, Skinwalker Ranch & NIDS. If you haven't heard this interview your in for a treat.

BoA:Audio, Season One

Have you got a bio for this guy Colm Kelleher be interested in finding out more about him. His accent is Irish, like to find out if he still lives in this country? If not got anything further to add no worries mate.
 
Did you see LMH Sock UFO?

absolutesocks_2206_45872595

She has these too?
 
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