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Smoking Gun up in Smoke

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Hoffmeister

There is no spoon
Guys, in the latest podcast, Frank Warren said that the smoking gun FBI report which ad Hoover saying "the army grabbed the disk and wouldnt give it back" was actually about some hoaxed disks, and not about the roswell incident. Does anyone know any more about this?

If i remember correctly, the memo was written 3 days after roswell, how can they be talking about any other disk?
 
hm... i'm not sure, i thought Rich Dolans presented it as talking about the roswell incident in his book, but memory is a little hazy
 
Guys, in the latest podcast, Frank Warren said that the smoking gun FBI report which ad Hoover saying "the army grabbed the disk and wouldnt give it back" was actually about some hoaxed disks, and not about the roswell incident. Does anyone know any more about this?

If i remember correctly, the memo was written 3 days after roswell, how can they be talking about any other disk?

I don't think the memo is referring to Roswell, but regardless of Mr Warren's comments, I think the memo still holds some significance.

Here are Hoover's words:

(in response to someone recommending that the FBI cease ufo investigations)

"I would do it but before agreeing to it we must insist upon full access to discs recovered. For instance in the La. case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination."

I think this is worthy of some thought: If the La. case was simply a hoax, why would the army refuse to allow J Edgar freakin Hoover to examine a disc recovered?

Additionally, I think that in this memo Hoover is also implying that this La. instance is not the only instance where he was refused access to recovered discs.

So the question still arises, why was the head of the FBI refused access to these alleged discs?
 
I agree Brandon. The wording in that quote very much indicates a larger ongoing issue rather than just a singular reaction to an event that may or may not have been a hoax.

For me, that quote is still as strong as ever (as far as being a smoking gun).
 
(in response to someone recommending that the FBI cease ufo investigations)

"I would do it but before agreeing to it we must insist upon full access to discs recovered. For instance in the La. case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination."

Seems an oddly uncharacteristic public blurt from a man who, nothwithstanding his many peccadilloes, could surely be counted on to keep his big mouth shut. Does anyone have a reliable and verifiable source/citation for this quote?
 
The problem with this note is that one doesn't know just what Hoover knew (or didn't know, or thought he knew, etc) when he wrote it.

Looking at the note itself (http://articles.dubroom.org/hoover_ufo_memo_big.jpg) it seems perfectly reasonable to assume that Hoover didn't need any knowledge whatsoever of any actual disks- simply that he wouldn't refer cases of UFO investigation to the army or air force unless they could promise him access to any future recovered disks. The La. disk cited Hoover had no access to, therefore, he couldn't know if it was real or fake.

Additionally, consider the history of J. Edgar Hoover and his FBI at the time. In 1947, Hoover and the Army were not on good terms, Hoover was furious that the OSS (with its roots in the Army under Bill Donavan) was being turned into the CIA and both had been given jurisdiction over foreign intelligence activities, something Hoover coveted. It is very reasonable to believe that the Army wouldn't tell Hoover much of anything unless forced to, be it about real disks or hoaxes.

Hoover, as well informed as he may have been, was not the most powerful man in America. He had a major blind spot- the rest of the federal government, which he antagonized and fought with incessantly, and which would not cooperate with him and with which he would not cooperate. (He was a survivor, though, managing to jump ship by abandoning his friend Senator McCarthy, just in time before the Army-McCarthy hearings.) This blindness would be his eventual downfall, by the Nixon era he was living, like all men of his leaning, in a virtual information vacuum.

As for J. Edgar Hoover the man (and this is just a hunch) it seems very hard to think of him as having a greater interest in flying disks than the general national zeitgeist of the era- which is to say, he may have believed them credible but not necessarily given them much more thought than being simply another irritating bone of jurisidictional contention between the FBI and the rest of the Federal government.
 
Koji, I think your are right on this. Well stated. I think it only interested him as one more possible string of influence he could tug on.
 
Excuse my ignorance, but am I to understand that the source for this document is a "reggae and consciousness" website? Is there a somewhat more credible source from which we can grab some assurance that the underlying document is what it is purported? Who received it under FOIA? Where did it first appear publicly, and who was the person releasing it? It seems less than prudent to rely upon what is most likely, at best, a reprint of a reprint of a reprint; as we all know, documents are easy to fake. It would be good to have provenance on what may be an important document before debate about its possible meanings.
 
Blacknight, absolutely. I hadn't checked that site, I just did a google image search since I knew what I was looking for. Here is the document from the FBI's FOIA archive:

http://foia.fbi.gov/ufo/ufo1.pdf

(I found it best to right click and download than the normal process.) The document is on pages 45 & 46 of the PDF.

As for who first made the FOIA request, don't know.
 
Blacknight, absolutely. I hadn't checked that site, I just did a google image search since I knew what I was looking for. Here is the document from the FBI's FOIA archive:

http://foia.fbi.gov/ufo/ufo1.pdf

(I found it best to right click and download than the normal process.) The document is on pages 45 & 46 of the PDF.

As for who first made the FOIA request, don't know.

Yes its quoted ion the film 'Out of the Blue'... and the link is posted on there.... Blacknight, if you have seen the film, go watch the original on video.google.com... its the best UFO documentary to date

By the way, if he says the LA case, could he be talking about something that may have been shot down from the battle of LA?
 
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