Speculation on goverment non-disclosure

[Flatwoods]

Having read and heard about these recent supposed "whistleblower" incidents from people like Chase Brandon and Richard French has made me wonder about the possible reasons for why the government would keep something like a Roswell crash secret. That is... if we are to accept that there was ever a crash in the first place, which I am skeptical of. But putting all that aside, I wish to touch on the subject of non-disclosure.

I often hear explanations such as society would fall apart politically from the panic of disclosure or the damage it would do to religions. Essentially, everyone seems to think the government would hide all this in order to protect itself, or us, from the knowledge of what UFO really are.

So the other day I had a thought...what if all the secrecy isn't to protect us, but them? By them I mean the aliens or crypto-terrestrials or whoever is behind the UFO mystery. I can easily imagine a scenario where humans come across a crashed saucer and discover an intelligent non -human race of beings with technology that is vastly different from ours. Given the tragic history of western humanity's contact with foreign civilizations(native americans are the first example that comes to mind), is it inconceivable that the government would decide to keep such contact permanently under wraps?

What if, as previously mentioned, the non-human presence had a technology that wasn't as advanced as we are led to believe, only very different in nature? How vulnerable would they be to "contamination" by western civilization? If this issue has been mentioned in a previous thread, please direct me to it.

 

[stonehart]

Having read and heard about these recent supposed "whistleblower" incidents from people like Chase Brandon and Richard French has made me wonder about the possible reasons for why the government would keep something like a Roswell crash secret. That is... if we are to accept that there was ever a crash in the first place, which I am skeptical of. But putting all that aside, I wish to touch on the subject of non-disclosure.

I often hear explanations such as society would fall apart politically from the panic of disclosure or the damage it would do to religions. Essentially, everyone seems to think the government would hide all this in order to protect itself, or us, from the knowledge of what UFO really are.

So the other day I had a thought...what if all the secrecy isn't to protect us, but them? By them I mean the aliens or crypto-terrestrials or whoever is behind the UFO mystery. I can easily imagine a scenario where humans come across a crashed saucer and discover an intelligent non -human race of beings with technology that is vastly different from ours. Given the tragic history of western humanity's contact with foreign civilizations(native americans are the first example that comes to mind), is it inconceivable that the government would decide to keep such contact permanently under wraps?

What if, as previously mentioned, the non-human presence had a technology that wasn't as advanced as we are led to believe, only very different in nature? How vulnerable would they be to "contamination" by western civilization? If this issue has been mentioned in a previous thread, please direct me to it.

Nice that is an interesting and fresh point of view.

 

[Trajanus]

Having read and heard about these recent supposed "whistleblower" incidents from people like Chase Brandon and Richard French has made me wonder about the possible reasons for why the government would keep something like a Roswell crash secret. That is... if we are to accept that there was ever a crash in the first place, which I am skeptical of.

No wonder, after all the trash put out to lead you to that conclusion. The examples cited above are only the most recent....

So the other day I had a thought...what if all the secrecy isn't to protect us, but them? By them I mean the aliens or crypto-terrestrials or whoever is behind the UFO mystery. I can easily imagine a scenario where humans come across a crashed saucer and discover an intelligent non -human race of beings with technology that is vastly different from ours. Given the tragic history of western humanity's contact with foreign civilizations(native americans are the first example that comes to mind), is it inconceivable that the government would decide to keep such contact permanently under wraps?

Oh come on. First, although some reported UFO technology appears no better than ours, the majority looks far ahead. UFOs and aliens are quite capable of fighting and protecting themselves--look at the Iranian incident. There's no comparison between ETs and primitive natives. Second, if aliens really were vulnerable, why come here and expose themselves to danger? Third, what could the government care, if they are vulnerable, so there's nothing for us to worry about?

 

[Ezechiel]

Interesting idea !

IMHO, governments obviously have control of some very limited information and very little (if any) control over a 'phenomenon' whose source possibly originates from various races at different stages of evolution coming from wildly different locations.

At best, we may have caught a 'newbie' race of beings that crashed at Roswell due to EMP or electrical storm induced catastrophic failure..

The real reason for any non-disclosure can probably find its origins in medieval times when heretics were burned to the stake to protect the fragile synapses of the evolving human mind and representatives of the moral authorities of the times.

Never forget that a big chunk of the population of the U.S. and Canada is tainted with religious fundamentalist ideas and some still think this planet is 6000 years old. Simple question: how do you think that segment of the population would react to such destabilizing information ? The U.K. had no problem disclosing some info because... most of its population is secular and is curious about UFOs.

The correlation between the secularity of a population and disclosure is self evident . It's really a boxing match between god warriors and rationalists. Romney vs Obama lol

 

[Trajanus]

Never forget that a big chunk of the population of the U.S. and Canada is tainted with religious fundamentalist ideas and some still think this planet is 6000 years old. Simple question: how do you think that segment of the population would react to such destabilizing information ?

If just that segment were at risk, I wouldn't care; unfortunately adverse reactions wouldn't be limited to the most badly deluded.

The U.K. had no problem disclosing some info because... most of its population is secular and is curious about UFOs.

Well, that was far from the conclusive proof needed to really shake up the present system.

The correlation between the secularity of a population and disclosure is self evident .

Religion is part of it, but not all.

 

[Ezechiel]

If just that segment were at risk, I wouldn't care; unfortunately adverse reactions wouldn't be limited to the most badly deluded.

Well, that was far from the conclusive proof needed to really shake up the present system.

Religion is part of it, but not all.

I think this subject has the potential of fracturing the fabric of parts of our societies. As an example, the premise of alien intelligences technologically superior to ours destroys any ideas of human god-backed moral supremacy in the universe. It's a big deal and that is most likely why Hollywood almost always portrays aliens as evil.

In which god will you trust lol. I'm still waiting for the movie that shows humanity being converted to an alien god lol.

 

[Flatwoods]

Nice that is an interesting and fresh point of view.

I suppose if there's any value in speculation, it's to point us in new directions. Turn over some new rocks for a change. For instance, the Robertson Panel in the 50's concluded that UFO's are not a national security threat. If we consider that to be the official position of the U.S. government, then maybe the handling of classified data doesn't even fall under the control of the military.

For a moment, let's consider the visitors as a species rather than alien invaders. If they're not a security threat, and if they originate or have a base(hive?) somewhere in the United States, then maybe information about them would be handled by the Department of the Interior. Has anyone ever submitted UFO-related FOIA requests to the Dept. of Interior? Maybe the Bureau of Land Management? Admittedly, I like to entertain the notion of the government hiding UFO documents by burying them within some obscure agency where no one would think to look. Just food for thought.

 

[Randall]

So the other day I had a thought ... what if all the secrecy isn't to protect us, but them? ... What if, as previously mentioned, the non-human presence had a technology that wasn't as advanced as we are led to believe, only very different in nature? How vulnerable would they be to "contamination" by western civilization? If this issue has been mentioned in a previous thread, please direct me to it.

Sorry but I'm not buying into it. I don't change my mind about what I think is the most likely case for something because I'm tired of hearing the same old stuff over and over again. The secrecy isn't about protecting either us ( the people ) or them ( the aliens ), it's about protecting the "body politic" and keeping as much information about it out of the hands of those who they ( the various agencies involved ) think shouldn't have it. Why? because our highest technology pales in comparison, it's not that theirs is just different, it's really different. It takes the very best of what we have to try to detect and intercept UFOs and the equipment and information used by our agencies is in and of itself classified because ( if nothing else ), it's the same stuff we use to defend our nation against Earthly threats. So you can't blame them for not disclosing all the details. Also, even if the various governments of the world were protecting the aliens, I wouldn't believe for one second that there is no self-interest involved. The last thing they are going to be concerned with is whether or not the aliens will become "contaminated by western civilization". What they want to know how UFOs can fly around with complete impunity over our most sensitive installations, where they come from, and why they are here. It's been maintained that the powers that be don't have this information, and I tend to think that is partly true. But I also think they know way more than they are telling us and if they chose to do so could provide the kind of evidence 97.5% of the skeptics would accept.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

If there anything to so called disclosure it more to do with money and power of a few not religion.

 

[Trajanus]

For instance, the Robertson Panel in the 50's concluded that UFO's are not a national security threat.

They had to say that, given the official position they don't exist; to claim otherwise would be tantamount to disclosure.

For a moment, let's consider the visitors as a species rather than alien invaders....if they originate or have a base(hive?) somewhere in the United States,

Strange that a group of "native Americans" is so dependent on flying machines, which often go straight up.

then maybe information about them would be handled by the Department of the Interior. Has anyone ever submitted UFO-related FOIA requests to the Dept. of Interior? Maybe the Bureau of Land Management?

Admittedly, I like to entertain the notion of the government hiding UFO documents by burying them within some obscure agency where no one would think to look.

Lol, don't bet on it....

 

[Ezechiel]

If there anything to so called disclosure it more to do with money and power of a few not religion.

There's plenty of money and power sitting with religion... enough to debase US politics. The evangelical lobby for example:
Religious lobbying in Washington has increased fivefold in 40 years study finds | God Discussion

The number of organizations engaged in religious lobbying or religion-related advocacy in Washington, D.C., has increased roughly fivefold in the past four decades, from fewer than 40 in 1970 to more than 200 today. These groups collectively employ at least 1,000 people in the greater Washington area and spend at least $390 million a year on efforts to influence national public policy

Here are some pressure points against any disclosure of an alien presence:

Faith-based: groups pushing civil laws that match their belief systems.
Energy-based: corporations that benefit from status-quo: maintaining a fossil fuel infrastructure.
Military: preserving the illusion of protection.

Disclosing is a knock-out punch applied to these crucial pressure points. Pandora's box comes to mind lol... and the expression : Beware of what you wish for

 

[Trajanus]

There's plenty of money and power sitting with religion... enough to debase US politics. The evangelical lobby for example:

"Debase" may not be putting it strongly enough...No wonder FREE INQUIRY had a cover pic showing uncle sam with a dunce cap on his head.

Faith-based: groups pushing civil laws that match their belief systems.
Energy-based: corporations that benefit from status-quo: maintaining a fossil fuel infrastructure.
Military: preserving the illusion of protection.

The first and third are plausible enough; dunno about the second. Corporations could make plenty of $ from new tech.

Disclosing is a knock-out punch applied to these crucial pressure points. Pandora's box comes to mind lol... and the expression : Beware of what you wish for

Yep a knock-out punch. Notwithstanding the uppity nature of holy morons for example, the general trend is toward secularism. Eventually this trend may make society more ready for the truth, which would bury the morons completely.

 

[Ezechiel]

The first and third are plausible enough; dunno about the second. Corporations could make plenty of $ from new tech.

Public corporations are pressured by their share holders to generate good return yields. Research and development into new areas is costly and directly impacts net profit. LOL things get worse if your most important share holder is the pension fund of a religious organization.

Under these conditions exploiting aging assets to the maximum to get the maximum return is the way to go
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b96db13a-dd72-11e1-8fdc-00144feab49a.html#axzz23RAIqpOr

BP’s safety focus weighs on earnings

The UK major is still struggling more than two years after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Its share price is weighed down by uncertainty over the final tally of its liabilities related to the disaster and by the future of its stake in the Russian joint venture TNK-BP, which it put up for​

sale in June​

. The message from management was that there would be more pain to come.​

​

 

[Trajanus]

Public corporations are pressured by their share holders to generate good return yields. Research and development into new areas is costly and directly impacts net profit.

Hasn't prevented new technologies in the past, and in this case the hard R&D work may already have been done for us; just reverse engineer it.

 

[Ezechiel]

Hasn't prevented new technologies in the past, and in this case the hard R&D work may already have been done for us; just reverse engineer it.

Reverse engineering alien tech ? You would need the supporting levels of scientific knowledge (physics, chemistry...) which can take decades to decode. The Higgs boson/god particle is an example. (cost=billions).

However, we are about 10 years from a fusion energy proof of concept.

 

[Trajanus]

Reverse engineering alien tech ? You would need the supporting levels of scientific knowledge (physics, chemistry...) which can take decades to decode. The Higgs boson/god particle is an example. (cost=billions).

Wonder if any black budget money was spent on it.

However, we are about 10 years from a fusion energy proof of concept.

Kaku once suggested we'd have fusion reactors by 2050.

 

[Ezechiel]

Wonder if any black budget money was spent on it.

Kaku once suggested we'd have fusion reactors by 2050.

2032 would make sense (2012 + 20 years)

For NIF proof of concept, if this thing doesn't light up by September 30th of this year they're in trouble. Should it work, expect at least 20 years for a working reactor.

Record NIF Achievement Reflects Complex Research Environment - The Independent: News

In early May, sounding as if it were discussing an engineering project rather than advanced research, the House Appropriations Committee worried that NIF’s “considerable costs will not have been warranted” if it does not achieve ignition by September 30, the end of the federal fiscal year.
Absent proof of ignition, it recommended “a lower, though still robust, level of experimental activity on the NIF” in the following fiscal year.