Talk about scary!

[tyder001]

Where's the world media?

 

[Xylo]

You're right Tyder, she is trying to scare everyone. Expert or no, I'd say the "talk" is a worst case scenario given by an anti-nuclear power advocate, not a realistic assessment of the true level of danger.

 

[exo_doc]

This is Dr.Helen Caldicott. She is from Australia, and is a nuclear activist.
Check out her site: http://www.helencaldicott.com/

How much can we trust what she says? Is she being totally honest, or a propaganda mouthpiece?
Somewhere in between I think.
I think what she has to say is worth hearing her out, then make up your own mind.


(Now I'm off to see Green Lantern......It had BETTER be good after waiting so damn long.)

 

[exo_doc]

This is Dr.Helen Caldicott. She is from Australia, and is a nuclear activist.
Check out her site: http://www.helencaldicott.com/

How much can we trust what she says? Is she being totally honest, or a propaganda mouthpiece?
Somewhere in between I think.
I think what she has to say is worth hearing her out, then make up your own mind.


(Now I'm off to see Green Lantern......It had BETTER be good after waiting so damn long.)

Yeah Green Lantern was worth seeing, I enjoyed it.

 

[trainedobserver]

 

[softbeard]

"1 million people have died as a result of Chernobyl" and it's all been covered up! That statement is the biggest load of horseshit I've heard. How can you cover up 1 million people dying. People have families and not all family members would stay quiet if one of their relatives was dying a horrific death from radiation poisoning! I find it disgusting that this 'doctor' starts yammering out the side of her mouth like this; scaremongering.
Her yammering about the relative toxicity of uranium is also a bunch of nonesense. "80% of the babies born in Falujah are deformed. Doctors have told women not to have babies." Ha, ha, ha! God, she is full of shit. I hope some of these deadly radioactive elements concentrate in her head and burn some sense into her brain.

 

[mike]

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/chernobyl-deaths-180406/

In September 2009, Fallujah General Hospital had 170 new born babies, 24% of whom were dead within the first seven days, a staggering 75% of the dead babies were classified as deformed.

This can be compared with data from the month of August in 2002 where there were 530 new born babies of whom six were dead within the first seven days and only one birth defect was reported.

Doctors in Fallujah have specifically pointed out that not only are they witnessing unprecedented numbers of birth defects but premature births have also considerably increased after 2003. But what is more alarming is that doctors in Fallujah have said, "a significant number of babies that do survive begin to develop severe disabilities at a later stage".

http://uruknet.info/index.php?p=m58926&hd=&size=1&l=e

 

[softbeard]

The video depicts very sad cases, but how is this necessarily connected? Mike I assume you're implying these birth defects are a result of uranium poisoning? It is conceivable, just as it is conceivable it is something completely else that is the cause. Point is, there is no hard evidence. Uranium is not known to be significantly teratogenic and, except for exposure through inhalation of large amounts, its radioactivity (primarily alpha emitter) is generally accepted as too low to be toxic. Nevertheless, when discussing this kind of subject, I admit the possibilities are wide open.
A quick look in Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratology, states "Birth defects are known to occur in 3-5% of all newborns." Thus, you can get horrific deformed-baby-videos from just about anywhere. Note that amongst possible teratogens are things like aspirin and nicotine. Of course the poster child teratogen is thalidomide and other chemicals like agent orange. Don't forget the effects of alcohol and its role in fetal alcohol syndrome, probably as horrific a debility as any other, though perhaps not as visible and spectacular.

 

[mike]

To be fair the studies seem to cut both ways

The actual acute and chronic toxicity of DU is also a point of medical controversy. Multiple studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure.[SUP][5][/SUP] A 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."[SUP][10][/SUP] The World Health Organization, the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations which is responsible for setting health research norms and standards, providing technical support to countries and monitoring and assessing health trends, states that no risk of reproductive, developmental, or carcinogenic effects have been reported in humans due to DU exposure.[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] This report has been criticized by Dr. Keith Baverstock for not including possible long term effects of DU on human body.[SUP][13][/SUP]

Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure, because in addition to being weakly radioactive, uranium is a toxic metal.[SUP][7][/SUP] DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury. It is weakly radioactive but remains radioactive because of its long half-life. The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry states that: "to be exposed to radiation from uranium, you have to eat, drink, or breathe it, or get it on your skin."[SUP][65][/SUP]
However, the Institute of Nuclear Technology-Radiation Protection of Attiki, Greece, has noted that "the aerosol produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites or can be inhaled by civilians and military personnel."[SUP][9][/SUP] The U.S. Department of Defense claims that no human cancer of any type has been seen as a result of exposure to either natural or depleted uranium.[SUP][66][/SUP]
As early as 1997, British Army doctors warned the British MoD (Ministry of Defence) that exposure to depleted uranium increased the risk of developing lung, lymph and brain cancer, and recommended a series of safety precautions.[SUP][67][/SUP] According to a report issued summarizing the advice of the doctors, 'Inhalation of insoluble uranium dioxide dust will lead to accumulation in the lungs with very slow clearance - if any . . . Although chemical toxicity is low, there may be localised radiation damage of the lung leading to cancer." The report warns that 'All personnel... should be aware that uranium dust inhalation carries a long-term risk... [the dust] has been shown to increase the risks of developing lung, lymph and brain cancers."[SUP][67][/SUP]
Studies using cultured cells and laboratory rodents continue to suggest the possibility of leukemogenic, genetic, reproductive, and neurological effects from chronic exposure.[SUP][5][/SUP] In addition, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service in early 2004 attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.[SUP][68][/SUP][SUP][69][/SUP] Also, a 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."[SUP][10][/SUP]
Its use in incendiary ammunition is controversial because of potential adverse health effects and its release into the environment.[SUP][70][/SUP][SUP][71][/SUP][SUP][72][/SUP][SUP][73][/SUP][SUP][74][/SUP][SUP][75][/SUP] Besides its residual radioactivity, U-238 is a heavy metal whose compounds are known from laboratory studies to be toxic to mammals.

The chemical toxicity of depleted uranium is about a million times greater in vitro than its radiological hazard.[SUP][76][/SUP] Health effects of DU are determined by factors such as the extent of exposure and whether it was internal or external. Three main pathways exist by which internalization of uranium may occur: inhalation, ingestion, and embedded fragments or shrapnel contamination. Properties such as phase (e.g. particulate or gaseous), oxidation state (e.g. metallic or ceramic), and the solubility of uranium and its compounds influence their absorption, distribution, translocation, elimination and the resulting toxicity. For example, metallic uranium is less toxic compared to hexavalent uranium(VI) uranyl compounds such as uranium trioxide.[SUP][77][/SUP][SUP][78][/SUP]
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<TBODY>[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Renal
[/TD]
[TD]Elevated levels of protein excretion, urinary catalase and diuresis
[/TD]
[TD]Damage to Proximal convoluted tubules, necrotic cells cast from tubular epithelium, glomerular changes
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brain/CNS
[/TD]
[TD]Decreased performance on neurocognitive tests
[/TD]
[TD]Acute cholinergic toxicity; Dose-dependent accumulation in cortex, midbrain, and vermis; Electrophysiological changes in hippocampus
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DNA
[/TD]
[TD]Increased reports of cancers
[/TD]
[TD]Increased urine mutagenicity and induction of tumors
[/TD]
[TD]Binucleated cells with micronuclei, Inhibition of cell cycle kinetics and proliferation; Sister chromatid induction, tumorigenic phenotype
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bone/muscle
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[TD]Inhibition of periodontal bone formation; and alveolar wound healing
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Reproductive
[/TD]
[TD]Uranium miners have more first born female children
[/TD]
[TD]Moderate to severe focal tubular atrophy; vacuolization of Leydig cells
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lungs/respiratory
[/TD]
[TD]No adverse health effects reported
[/TD]
[TD]Severe nasal congestion and hemorrage, lung lesions and fibrosis, edema and swelling, lung cancer
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Gastrointestinal
[/TD]
[TD]Vomiting, diarrhea, albuminuria
[/TD]
[TD]n/a
[/TD]
[TD]n/a
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Liver
[/TD]
[TD]No effects seen at exposure dose
[/TD]
[TD]Fatty livers, focal necrosis
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Skin
[/TD]
[TD]No exposure assessment data available
[/TD]
[TD]Swollen vacuolated epidermal cells, damage to hair follicles and sebaceous glands
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tissues surrounding embedded DU fragments
[/TD]
[TD]Elevated uranium urine concentrations
[/TD]
[TD]Elevated uranium urine concentrations, perturbations in biochemical and neuropsychological testing
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Immune system
[/TD]
[TD]Chronic fatigue, rash, ear and eye infections, hair and weight loss, cough. May be due to combined chemical exposure rather than DU alone
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eyes
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[TD]Conjunctivitis, irritation inflammation, edema, ulceration of conjunctival sacs
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Blood
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[TD]Decrease in RBC count and hemoglobin concentration
[/TD]
[TD]No studies
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cardiovascular
[/TD]
[TD]Myocarditis resulting from the uranium ingestion, which ended 6 months after ingestion
[/TD]
[/TR]
</TBODY>[/TABLE]

Increased rates of immune system disorders and other wide-ranging symptoms, including chronic pain, fatigue and memory loss, have been reported in over one quarter of combat veterans of the 1991 Gulf War.[SUP][91][/SUP] Combustion products from depleted uranium munitions are being considered as one of the potential causes by the Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses, as DU was used in 30 mm and smaller caliber machine-gun bullets on a large scale for the first time in the Gulf War. Veterans of the conflicts in the Persian Gulf, Bosnia and Kosovo have been found to have up to 14 times the usual level of chromosome abnormalities in their genes.[SUP][92][/SUP][SUP][93][/SUP] Serum-soluble genotoxic teratogens produce congenital disorders, and in white blood cells causes immune system damage.[SUP][94][/SUP]
Human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU.[SUP][10][/SUP] A 2001 study of 15,000 February 1991 U.S. Gulf War combat veterans and 15,000 control veterans found that the Gulf War veterans were 1.8 (fathers) to 2.8 (mothers) times more likely to have children with birth defects.[SUP][95][/SUP] After examination of children's medical records two years later, the birth defect rate increased by more than 20%:
<DL><DD>"Dr. Kang found that male Gulf War veterans reported having infants with likely birth defects at twice the rate of non-veterans. Furthermore, female Gulf War veterans were almost three times more likely to report children with birth defects than their non-Gulf counterparts. The numbers changed somewhat with medical records verification. However, Dr. Kang and his colleagues concluded that the risk of birth defects in children of deployed male veterans still was about 2.2 times that of non-deployed veterans."[SUP][96][/SUP] </DD></DL>In early 2004, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.[SUP][97][/SUP][SUP][98][/SUP] Children of British soldiers who fought in wars in which depleted uranium ammunition was used are at greater risk of suffering genetic diseases such as congenital malformations, commonly called "birth defects," passed on by their fathers. In a study of U.K. troops, "Overall, the risk of any malformation among pregnancies reported by men was 50% higher in Gulf War Veterans (GWV) compared with Non-GWVs."[SUP][99][/SUP]
The U.S. Army has commissioned ongoing research into potential risks of depleted uranium and other projectile weapon materials like tungsten, which the U.S. Navy has used in place of DU since 1993. Studies by the U.S. Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute conclude that moderate exposures to either depleted uranium or uranium present a significant toxicological threat.[SUP][100][/SUP]

Since 2001, medical personnel at the Basra hospital in southern Iraq have reported a sharp increase in the incidence of child leukemia and genetic malformation among babies born in the decade following the Gulf War. Iraqi doctors attributed these malformations to possible long-term effects of DU, an opinion which was echoed by several newspapers.[SUP][74][/SUP][SUP][103][/SUP][SUP][104][/SUP][SUP][105][/SUP] In 2004, Iraq had the highest mortality rate due to leukemia of any country

A 2005 study by Sandia National Laboratories’ Al Marshall used mathematical models to analyze potential health effects associated with accidental exposure to depleted uranium during the 1991 Gulf War. Marshall’s study concluded that the reports of cancer risks from DU exposure are not supported by veteran medical statistics, but Marshall did not consider reproductive health effects.[SUP][120][/SUP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

 

[robert]

interesting how when someone speaks out on a topic like this, the first thing many do is look for an excuse to dis the speaker...
not reasonable or intelligent...

 

[softbeard]

Studies by the U.S. Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute conclude that moderate exposures to either depleted uranium or uranium present a significant toxicological threat.

Yes, this is what I inderstand. There is a possibly significant chemical toxicity from uranium compounds, but its radiation hazard, except through inhalation of large amounts, is not significant. Note there is almost no toxicity difference whether you're talking about depleted uranium, the natural 235/238 isotope mix, or enriched (in U235) uranium.
Chemical toxicity of uranium is very depent on the type of uranium compound. It is most toxic in its +6 oxidation state. The metal is least toxic and is not absorbed by the body in its bulk form. Nevertheless, uranium burns in air readily, and a fired uranium projectile forms an aerosol of oxides when it impacts. These can be inhalation hazards.
In spite of the above, keep in mind that uranium toxicity is only moderate when compared with other heavy-metal poisons like mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic compounds. Also, I suspect, there may be a wide variation in how people react to uranium exposure, based on genetic makeup and other factors. This may be clouding the epidemiological picture.
There seems to be very little data on uranium blood levels of people in areas where high birth defects are noted. I suspect such data would show uranium in insignificant levels or absent from bloodstreams. Mike, maybe you have some data on this.

Finally, I think a lot of people may be jumping to conclusions about uranium simply because of its association with nuclear power and weapons.