The Great Spaghetti Wall for Outrageous Hypotheses

[Red]

I thought I'd start this thread as a thought experiment/brainstorming session and because speculation can be often fun. I want to avoid the same old hypotheses that keep getting trotted out when it's apparent that we are no closer to the heart of the matter than we were before.

I want to make it clear that I'm not championing any given theory, especially as I don't think there is ever going to be a "grand unified theory" of UFOs and the paranormal. I would just ask you keep it concise. It might even be appropriate to create new threads to discuss hypotheses that we deem worthy of further discussion/exploration.

I don't want this thread to get too bogged in minutiae and criticism, because that just defeats the purpose of a brainstorming session. I would also encourage expansion of existing hypotheses (in this thread or elsewhere) or it use it as a jumping off point, as that would be in the spirit of the thread here I'm trying to create.

I think someone here mentioned a reference to ants at the picnic, but the inspiration comes from reading Solaris and Roadside Picnic. So what does it mean if we are just the ants at the picnic?

Are we dealing with something so vast or so alien, that it can't even know that we exist or interact with us in any meaningful way?

• We have millions of bacteria living on us and in our gut with whom we have a symbiotic relationship. Are we just really the bacteria on something that we don't have the capacity to interact with?
• Or are our interactions like some of the stranger MIB stories really just us interacting with the bacteria or the immune system of something bigger?
• Are we confusing the evidence of phenomena, be it artifacts, experiences, or sightings with interaction? I'll use the ants at the picnic analogy again. We drop crumbs and the ants will use those crumbs as food, but the crumbs are not a result of any meaningful interaction with us and the ants. The crumbs are just the effect from us having a picnic and it's just a coincidence that the ants happen to be nearby.

 

[marduk]

What if we exist in someone's video game and UFO's are just graphics compression artefacts? Like when you blow up a JPEG too far?

 

[Red]

What if we exist in someone's video game and UFO's are just graphics compression artefacts? Like when you blow up a JPEG too far?

Thanks for playing!


Or if we are 3 dimensional holograms playing out events from a 2 dimensional reality, are UFO's and paranormal events just errors in the holographic projection from converting from 2d to 3d? I keep thinking of a skipping record when I think of this one, it may or may not accurate, but there it is.

 

[Randall]

What if we exist in someone's video game and UFO's are just graphics compression artefacts? Like when you blow up a JPEG too far?

The alternate universe hypothesis is my favorite, and it theorizes that if other universes exist and work on the same physics as ours, then it might be possible to move between universes, and if these universes are vast computational constructs, then it would be as simple as cutting and pasting, which is sort of similar to the idea you're proposing, but instead of them being "artifacts" they would consist of the same bits of data as everything else, and therefore be just as real to us as anything else we consider to be real. Although this is my favorite theory, I'm not sure it's the most likely. I still tend to favor the Interstellar Hypothesis.

 

[Red]

I wonder if there is some sort of observer effect at play. In quantam mechanics, it's really the instrumentation that changes the state of whatever it is being observed, but can we affect something in the process of observing it?

 

[Randall]

I wonder if there is some sort of observer effect at play. In quantam mechanics, it's really the instrumentation that changes the state of whatever it is being observed, but can we affect something in the process of observing it?

That depends on how you look at the question. When someone is looking at you and you know it, then it affects you because you know it, so in a behavioral context, observation and consciousness has cause and effect. However I don't think it plays a role outside of that. With telekinesis for example, the assumption is that it is the mind that is doing the moving. However being able to move objects by commanding it with the mind doesn't necessarily mean that it is the mind that is doing the moving. Assuming for the sake of discussion that the phenomena is real, it seems more likely to me that what is doing the actual moving is some mysterious force that the mind is able to make use of.

 

[marduk]

I've actually been mulling something over.

See you can't actually transmit information via 'spooky action at a distance.'

But you can tell if someone observed it because it decoheres.

I wonder if they know we're observing them by exploiting this effect?

 

[Red]

Jaynes posits that since bicameralism is a precursor role in consciousness (as defined by Jaynes using volition, agency, introspection, and autobiographic memory), it would not be unusual for hallucinations to occur in healthy modern humans. He also says that schizophrenia is likely a remnant of bicameralism which is noted for mostly auditory hallucinations, but at times visual hallucinations can occur.
Early human societies such as occurred in Egypt and Sumer had populations which hallucinated the words of their gods and ancestors, leading to highly bureaucratic societal structure. In some early societies, there can be an emphasis in the eyes, not unlike the black eyes of the greys. To Jaynes, "hypnosis can cause this extra enabling [of behavioral control] because it engages the general bicameral paradigm which allows a more absolute control over behavior than is possible with consciousness."

I think it might be applicable to abduction in the following ways:

• Some of the experiences may be hallucinations, some of which may be occurring in a hypnotic state. Those accounts which discuss a lack of volition are most likely involving a hypnotic state.
• Something is activating bicameral states in human subjects to create active hallucinations (or what is called screen memories) to disguise their purpose and intent. Using hypnosis for memory recall for these subjects may only be allowing them to recall hallucinations activated by an unknown agent.
• Something is activating bicameral states in human subjects to study consciousness, they may understand the biological mechanisms involved, but may not understand the cultural component (sophisticated language) as a requirement for consciousness as defined by Jaynes.

 

[Randall]

I've actually been mulling something over. See you can't actually transmit information via 'spooky action at a distance.' But you can tell if someone observed it because it decoheres. I wonder if they know we're observing them by exploiting this effect?

All that can be determined is that one of the entangled particles in a pair has reached a destination where something causes it to change, not that anything conscious was "observing it".

 

[marduk]

All that can be determined is that one of the entangled particles in a pair has reached a destination where something causes it to change, not that anything conscious was "observing it".

This is what I mean:

Quantum cryptography is the science of exploiting quantum mechanical properties to perform cryptographic tasks. The best known example of quantum cryptography is quantum key distribution which offers an information-theoretically secure solution to the key exchange problem. Currently used popular public-key encryption and signature schemes (e.g., RSA and ElGamal) can be broken by quantum adversaries. The advantage of quantum cryptography lies in the fact that it allows the completion of various cryptographic tasks that are proven or conjectured to be impossible using only classical (i.e. non-quantum) communication (see below for examples). For example, it is impossible to copy data encoded in a quantum state and the very act of reading data encoded in a quantum state changes the state. This is used to detect eavesdropping in quantum key distribution.

 

[Red]

Uh, I just remembered watching a TV show around 2007, it wasn't American, I think it was British. It didn't get that woo-woo, but did talk about things like visualization improving athletic performance. I also remember it featured monks engaged in tummo meditation that allows them to raise their body temperature to point that if cloths soaked in freezing water are placed on the monks, the water steams off of them like the monks were hot rocks. I'll be darned though if I can remember the name of the show.
The reason I need to find the name of it is because it featured a study on psychic phenomenon carried out by two researchers. One was a believer in psychic phenomenon and one wasn't. The outcomes would change based on which researcher was running the study at the time. I want to take a look at that study, but can't until I find the name of the show, I'm stuck. Usually I can find stuff through google pretty easily, but this one is escaping me.

 

[Randall]

Uh, I just remembered watching a TV show around 2007, it wasn't American, I think it was British. It didn't get that woo-woo, but did talk about things like visualization improving athletic performance. I also remember it featured monks engaged in tummo meditation that allows them to raise their body temperature to point that if cloths soaked in freezing water are placed on the monks, the water steams off of them like the monks were hot rocks. I'll be darned though if I can remember the name of the show.
The reason I need to find the name of it is because it featured a study on psychic phenomenon carried out by two researchers. One was a believer in psychic phenomenon and one wasn't. The outcomes would change based on which researcher was running the study at the time. I want to take a look at that study, but can't until I find the name of the show, I'm stuck. Usually I can find stuff through google pretty easily, but this one is escaping me.

I think I actually have that in my DVD collection someplace. I know for sure I have the one that shows the Monks. I'll let you know if I find it.

 

[Randall]

This is what I mean: "... For example, it is impossible to copy data encoded in a quantum state and the very act of reading data encoded in a quantum state changes the state. This is used to detect eavesdropping in quantum key distribution."

Sounds like the perfect delivery system for IMF agent Phelps .​

 

[Red]

I think I actually have that in my DVD collection someplace. I know for sure I have the one that shows the Monks. I'll let you know if I find it.

Awesome, I really appreciate it!

I have another oddball theory. The placebo effect is well documented, but what if just by believing in UFOs and the paranormal we create these phenomena?

 

[Randall]

Awesome, I really appreciate it! I have another oddball theory. The placebo effect is well documented, but what if just by believing in UFOs and the paranormal we create these phenomena?

I don't doubt that belief causes some people to interpret unexplained, ambiguous, or unfamiliar stimuli as a manifestation of their beliefs, but I think it's rare that the stimuli itself is such a manifestation ( a hallucination ). Primitive religious beliefs for the cause natural phenomena, like weather, for example: Person A tells person B that God creates thunder. Person B hears thunder. Person B believes there is God, for if not, then who creates the thunder? So the placebo effect requires that the patient have something to believe in, like a sugar pill rather than medicine. What sort of phenomena would provide a stimulus that looks like some sort of alien craft, without it being an alien craft?

 

[Red]

So the placebo effect requires that the patient have something to believe in, like a sugar pill rather than medicine. What sort of phenomena would provide a stimulus that looks like some sort of alien craft, without it being an alien craft?

er, ectoplasm?

 

[marduk]

I don't doubt that belief causes some people to interpret unexplained, ambiguous, or unfamiliar stimuli as a manifestation of their beliefs, but I think it's rare that the stimuli itself is such a manifestation ( a hallucination ). Primitive religious beliefs for the cause natural phenomena, like weather, for example: Person A tells person B that God creates thunder. Person B hears thunder. Person B believes there is God, for if not, then who creates the thunder? So the placebo effect requires that the patient have something to believe in, like a sugar pill rather than medicine. What sort of phenomena would provide a stimulus that looks like some sort of alien craft, without it being an alien craft?

Nothing in documented human experience would.

Hence my simple question - if you throw a rock at it, would it bounce off?

I think it would.

 

[Red]

So the placebo effect requires that the patient have something to believe in, like a sugar pill rather than medicine. What sort of phenomena would provide a stimulus that looks like some sort of alien craft, without it being an alien craft?

All joking aside, maybe belief causes temporary interference patterns or bubbles/pockets of alternate reality that present as UFOs and such, they don't last long as their coherence can't be maintained more than a brief period of time.

 

[Randall]

All joking aside, maybe belief causes temporary interference patterns or bubbles/pockets of alternate reality that present as UFOs and such, they don't last long as their coherence can't be maintained more than a brief period of time.

If by "alternate reality" you mean the reality we perceive as opposed to something objective, then that is an entirely reasonable suggestion.

Just the other night I was out driving and came to a red light. There were no other cars at the intersection, and I was looking at the green lights hanging over the lanes going the other way. I glanced back at the lights in my lane to see what was happening and they looked like they had turned green, so I started to roll, but what I had actually seen was some sort of green afterimage from the other lights. My lights were still red, and my passenger alerted me to it before I moved into the intersection. Looking back up, sure enough, the lights I had thought were green were still red. So I saw something that wasn't the way it really was for just a split second, but long enough to believe it was something that it wasn't.

 

[Red]

If by "alternate reality" you mean the reality we perceive as opposed to something objective, then that is an entirely reasonable suggestion.

This idea is still bouncing around in the brain pan, and I think your suggestion fits nicely, but I'm still struggling with the idea that placebos can alter physical reality, i.e.: placebos have documented effects on physiology.