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well, there is the fact that it is a more social document than Nice was, giving more rights to the people. some say that it didnt go far enough, but people who say "we're fine as we are" and think that our current relationship with europe is ok, but the lisbon treaty is "bad" compared to it are simply misinformed.

another thing about lisbon is the burocracy that it gets rid of. in europe it has been notoriously hard to get things done i.e. allocating money for incentives for industry etc. These things could take years. that has been considerably lessened by lisbon.

People say that there are extraordinary powers given to the EU as opposed to individual countries. I would say that that's just scaremongering. The treaty is a natural step forward. A country still does not have to do anything it doesnt want to do. This is not a united states of europe. it was agreed by our governments over a period of nearly 20 yrs. It is a horribly complex document. But however you feel about politicians, we elected them, and a practical alternative to representational democracy is not forthcoming.

Ultimately, i think the thing that will surprise people the most is how little it will effect their lives on the surface. But go beneath that, and you have a political and social document by which we can all benefit from each other. There is an evil empire to the east, and one to the west, but neither of them is europe.

<blockquote data-quote="conor" data-source="post: 74914" data-attributes="member: 1484">well, there is the fact that it is a more social document than Nice was, giving more rights to the people. some say that it didnt go far enough, but people who say &quot;we&#039;re fine as we are&quot; and think that our current relationship with europe is ok, but the lisbon treaty is &quot;bad&quot; compared to it are simply misinformed. &nbsp;another thing about lisbon is the burocracy that it gets rid of. in europe it has been notoriously hard to get things done i.e. allocating money for incentives for industry etc. These things could take years. that has been considerably lessened by lisbon. &nbsp;People say that there are extraordinary powers given to the EU as opposed to individual countries. I would say that that&#039;s just scaremongering. The treaty is a natural step forward. A country still does not have to do anything it doesnt want to do. This is not a united states of europe. it was agreed by our governments over a period of nearly 20 yrs. It is a horribly complex document. But however you feel about politicians, we elected them, and a practical alternative to representational democracy is not forthcoming. &nbsp;Ultimately, i think the thing that will surprise people the most is how little it will effect their lives on the surface. But go beneath that, and you have a political and social document by which we can all benefit from each other. There is an evil empire to the east, and one to the west, but neither of them is europe.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="conor, post: 74914, member: 1484"] well, there is the fact that it is a more social document than Nice was, giving more rights to the people. some say that it didnt go far enough, but people who say "we're fine as we are" and think that our current relationship with europe is ok, but the lisbon treaty is "bad" compared to it are simply misinformed. another thing about lisbon is the burocracy that it gets rid of. in europe it has been notoriously hard to get things done i.e. allocating money for incentives for industry etc. These things could take years. that has been considerably lessened by lisbon. People say that there are extraordinary powers given to the EU as opposed to individual countries. I would say that that's just scaremongering. The treaty is a natural step forward. A country still does not have to do anything it doesnt want to do. This is not a united states of europe. it was agreed by our governments over a period of nearly 20 yrs. It is a horribly complex document. But however you feel about politicians, we elected them, and a practical alternative to representational democracy is not forthcoming. Ultimately, i think the thing that will surprise people the most is how little it will effect their lives on the surface. But go beneath that, and you have a political and social document by which we can all benefit from each other. There is an evil empire to the east, and one to the west, but neither of them is europe. [/QUOTE]

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