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The Secrets of Schröteri Crater

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Anaximander

Anaximander

Skilled Investigator
Greetings Folks,

I have a new lunar 'anomaly' here which I think some of you might be interested it in seeing.

It is a strange thing which my brother (and I) discovered while perusing an image with a very tempting name: 'The Secrets of Schröteri Crater'.

This title was just too tempting for us amateur selenographers to not look, and look we did. What we found was a feature which many have already said looks artificial in appearance.

It could just be rocks but the thing does look artificial:



Some speculative notes are included along with the second image which has been rotated:



Full Size Strip


*Interesting Fact. Apollo 18 was slated to land in this area visible on this lroc image strip, a place called Schröter's Valley...

...Maybe something did land.
 
interesting, ... do you have any idea of the scale of this group of rocks or whatever it is?? How big or small is it??
Seems pretty clear that whatever it is, it moved along that path to get to where it is now.
 
TClaeys said:
interesting, ... do you have any idea of the scale of this group of rocks or whatever it is?? How big or small is it?? Seems pretty clear that whatever it is, it moved along that path to get to where it is now.
Click to expand...

Ha! It looks for all the world like a four wheeled vehicle with some sort of antenna mast. I imagine that I see a cab with a windshield with two lights mounted above it. How big would that thing have to be?
 
trainedobserver said:
Ha! It looks for all the world like a four wheeled vehicle with some sort of antenna mast. I imagine that I see a cab with a windshield with two lights mounted above it. How big would that thing have to be?
Click to expand...

Here is my estimation of the size. It should be fairly accurate, give or take a metre:



*How I got to these numbers: 42x28 pixels @.6m/pixel
 
there are other "tracks" and outcroppings of whatever that is down and to the left a ways on the original file. they appear to be much older tracks than these.
 
25 meters?? That's kind of big for some kind of artificial vehicle isn't it?? That's only a bit smaller than the space shuttle. Any space probe we've ever sent out (thet we know of) is considerably smaller, like 10 times smaller.
 
Anaximander said:
Greetings Folks,

I have a new lunar 'anomaly' here which I think some of you might be interested it in seeing.

It is a strange thing which my brother (and I) discovered while perusing an image with a very tempting name: 'The Secrets of Schröteri Crater'.
Click to expand...

Good find. The rotation makes all the difference and it really does appear to be some vehicle. When Z launched his thread, all I could see was an unusual crater at the end of a rille and left it at that. There aren't many 'lunar anomalies' that look very anomalous to me, but this could be one of the handful that remain mysterious.

Rilles aren't uncommon on moons and planets and have often been mistaken for artificial tracks. So far (in either thread), nobody has suggested an impact crater from an agglomerated asteroid. The albedo of the object/s in the crater don't seem brighter than that of other rocks and craters in the area. It's more likely that the crater is unusual due to its location at the end of a rille and that the contents are the remnants of an agglomerated asteroid impact.

'More likely' doesn't presume an explanation, it's just suggestive of one.

If the features within the crater are in actual fact a Soviet or US rover...it becomes difficult to explain. The Soviets haven't been shy about their failed missions and acknowledged the missions when they missed the Moon altogether. They've been equally forthcoming about the failed Luna/Lunik landings that crashed. The successful Lunokhod 1 was a mere 2.5 metres in length. NASA has had a number of failures to its name too.

I point these out in order to raise the question of why a possibly artificial object (of some great size) wouldn't be acknowledged by either power? If NASA had chosen to remain quiet about a failed mission, would they be posting images that expose the secret? If NASA had evidence of a Russian or Soviet (past versus present) failed project, would they post the images without pointing it out?

The image remains open to speculation, but on balance, it's more likely that it depicts an impact crater and debris.
 
I've got another image here.

My brother redrew the shadow-sketch and I added a picture of a similiar probe:

*


Even though it is a large lander, I think the mighty Saturn five could have landed it. It's size has nothing to do with it's mass. In it's collapsed state, the Saturn could handle it.

If it is real, then I would speculate that it is some sort of moon mining concept test, probably ISRU related. I can't think of such a large thing being sent just to take a few soil samples.
 
Kandinsky said:
I point these out in order to raise the question of why a possibly artificial object (of some great size) wouldn't be acknowledged by either power? If NASA had chosen to remain quiet about a failed mission, would they be posting images that expose the secret? If NASA had evidence of a Russian or Soviet (past versus present) failed project, would they post the images without pointing it out?
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Hey Kandinsky

Under the pretense that this thing is an American probe, my brother and I were discussing that very issue.

He doesn't think that the current generation would be aware of any secret probes, a few might but even then they don't have a need to know so they probably wouldn't. Also, if they only have access to the same image data that we do then they have no more to go on than the rest of us. They simply wouldn't know if they had an image with a secret probe/lunar operation in it. Or someone(s) might, but they know the limitations of the probe or aren't involved with releasing images and grabbing someone who is and telling them 'don't post that image biatch' would attract unnecessary attention. Plus, given the choice between secret moonstuff and rocks, the public will always be swayed toward the rocks.

But if the person releasing the images was aware of some genuine secret down there and that is why the strip was titled "Secrets of Schroteri", then the person would know full well that there is not enough evidence available to the public that they have to worry about someone sussing it out. For some guy to actually prove it is an American probe (if it isn't rocks), he would have to have access to classified/secret material and be willing to post it and deal with the consequences - and for what? It just wouldn't be worth it.

Oh, another thing we discussed was that if it was artificial, perhaps the naming of it was done to attract attention to something in the image, or to the image itself. Or maybe there were some people who had heard rumours about a secret mission and they were kind of like putting the feelers out to see what's out there, to see what people know. We also talked about the possibility that it might not be from a NASA mission and so all those young nasa folks might have access to is rumour and innuendo form the old-timers.

That is about the gist of it. I just thought you'd like to know what we came up with when we discussed the matter.
 
i have managed to clean up the image a little... it does appear to be some sort of robot type vehicle.
 

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I know the odds are way against it happening like this, but couldn't it be debris from some rocket body or probe that came in and crashed at an oblique angle and rolled across the surface?
I realize probes and space debris are normaly moving at speeds fast enough to disintegrate on impact, but maybe this was a one in a trillion event.
I know I'm grasping at straws here, but for reasons already stated in other posts I can't beleive any space age nation would keep this secret if it's their probe, ..even if it's a failure.
And I can't speculate on possible alien origins, there's just not enough information.
I guess we can find out when we go back to the moon. But at this rate, that could be a hundred years or more.
 
Update - in a sense....

Here are some images of the thing inverted. It looks more rover-like this this way (Edit: Turns out there is also a filter being applied here. Dang):



 
The incredibly frustrating thing here is that we know the moon has been mapped in high resolution photography more than once, however the public has no access to those images. Given the fact that we paid for the photographs already and probably paid to put whatever that is in the photograph on the moon makes the situation even more infuriating. Why keep these things from the public? I think it because the moon is probably littered with the leftovers of secret military related missions lending to the rational that they are kept secret under the guise of national security.

One major problem I have with that notion though is that other nations have mapped the moon. If some Japanese, Indian, of Russian selenographer discovers such a thing, why would they keep quite about it? It doesn't really make a lot of sense any way you look at it. At some point you would think someone would be going, "What the hell is that?" One answer is that the moon isn't particularly interesting to that many people it seems. Perhaps movies like Moon and Apollo 18 will spark some interest that has been lacking.
 
trainedobserver said:
One major problem I have with that notion though is that other nations have mapped the moon. If some Japanese, Indian, of Russian selenographer discovers such a thing, why would they keep quite about it? It doesn't really make a lot of sense any way you look at it. At some point you would think someone would be going, "What the hell is that?"
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is there is nothing to keep quiet about - those other nations lack the technology/have not put a probe into lunar orbit capable or seeing a man-made technological object.

Only the USA has done that.

*It is the same reason why the Soviet could never have blown the whistle if we faked Apollo. They simply didn't have what it takes to photograph the landing sites in high enough resolution so see either the landers and/or empty space where they should be.

No nation except the United states can orbit probes capable of seeing those Apollo artifacts. The rest of the world is just gonna have to trust in our honesty that we didn't fake those pics because they sure as shit can't prove otherwise.
 
Anaximander said:
Update - in a sense....

Here are some images of the thing inverted. It looks more rover-like this this way (Edit: Turns out there is also a filter being applied here. Dang):



Click to expand...

looks to me that the object with the squarish thing on top was rolling with the squarish thing nearest to us. it made those little v shaped marks in a fairly straight line until it hit that white object, it then wobbled off course and struck the object just below it and righted itself to the position it is in.
 
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