The UFO field is DEAD!!!..long live flying saucers!!!!

[The Pair of Cats]

The UFO fields is dead, lets face it. No new, relevant information is forthcoming, the same old ,tired researchers recycling the same old stuff, people still arguing the same old points, no hope of any disclosure. I have been following this subject since the early days of the net (before that. since the early '70's) and the same old stuff is being trotted out time after time. Do we need to just move on? Or do we start asking new questions, trying a different approach.

One thing's for certain, the subject of UFO"s is a belief system.
People are as passionate about their slant on UFO"s as any bible thumping revivalist or jihad shouting extremist. It has come down to a point of people arguing that "their" version of the validity of this phenomenon is the "right" one and everyone else is wrong. Then like minded individuals take sides and a mass polarization is born, creating a massive diversion into a slanging match and threatened lawsuits, no wonder main stream media veers clear of it (as if they really need an excuse to do so!). The general public who overwhelmingly believe in the existence of UFO"s then looks at this mess and thinks "why get involved or come out with my own tales or experiences" when i am going to get absolutely reamed by everyone in that field one way or another.

Where do we go from here????

 

[BrandonD]

The UFO fields is dead, lets face it. No new, relevant information is forthcoming, the same old ,tired researchers recycling the same old stuff, people still arguing the same old points, no hope of any disclosure. I have been following this subject since the early days of the net (before that. since the early '70's) and the same old stuff is being trotted out time after time. Do we need to just move on? Or do we start asking new questions, trying a different approach.

One thing's for certain, the subject of UFO"s is a belief system.
People are as passionate about their slant on UFO"s as any bible thumping revivalist or jihad shouting extremist. It has come down to a point of people arguing that "their" version of the validity of this phenomenon is the "right" one and everyone else is wrong. Then like minded individuals take sides and a mass polarization is born, creating a massive diversion into a slanging match and threatened lawsuits, no wonder main stream media veers clear of it (as if they really need an excuse to do so!). The general public who overwhelmingly believe in the existence of UFO"s then looks at this mess and thinks "why get involved or come out with my own tales or experiences" when i am going to get absolutely reamed by everyone in that field one way or another.

Where do we go from here????

Where would we go from here, if I were emperor of ufology? I would decree that everyone must henceforth discard ALL terminology relating to ufology.

On the surface, this might seem like a useless gesture, but I would disagree. Words aren't just empty symbols representing a single atom of an idea, accompanied with them are countless unseen assumptions and associations. Because of this, they confine and direct our thinking in ways that we don't realize.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Yep, this whole subject is dead.

The final nail in the coffin for my current period of interest was the O'hare 'event' - where are the pictures and videos? The one place you would expect to find a concentration of cameras would be at an airport. There are groups of plane 'spotters' at every airport in the world, each one armed with a camera and a note book but not a single one at O'Hare? What percentage of tourists at airports don't have a camera with them? How many mobile phones don't have cameras built in?

It just doesn't add up - I just don't believe that an event as 'public' as O'Hare or Phoenix for that matter can be so completely covered-up.

I'm ready to have a rest from this subject now - I have better things to do with my time and energy.

When a 'regular' folks start asking the questions, I might start taking notice again.

 

[sk4p]

It just doesn't add up - I just don't believe that an event as 'public' as O'Hare or Phoenix for that matter can be so completely covered-up.

I'm going to leave aside Phoenix for a moment, and only talk O'Hare. I'm also going to lay aside my own skepticism for a moment and be devil's advocate.

My experience at Pittsburgh's airport, and the few others I've been to, tells me that at major airports, people are not outdoors that much near the planes. Coming into or leaving the airport, especially with transportation safety police pushing you not to loiter and be suspicious, people are focused on getting dropped off/picked up as quickly as possible and are not looking up all that much. Even if you look up long enough to notice a light in the sky, why stare at it when you're in a rush? You have things to do and it's an airport. A quick glimpse of something in the sky? No biggie.

The people most likely to be standing around and looking up are therefore (a) passengers who are waiting in planes or terminals, where your angle of vision/photography is going to be limited, and (b) employees of the airport and of airlines.

And as for (b), we've already had Peter Davenport indicating in statements elsewhere that some of those employees were threatened with termination of their jobs. I don't know about any of you, but if my employers threatened my job, I'd think not just twice, but about 50 times about releasing photographs or going public.

"So do it anonymously"? Wouldn't angle of photograph - especially if any other objects were in it - help narrow it down to a particular group of possible source individuals?

I don't often think much of extensive coverup scenarios, but in this particular case I don't find it all that implausible.

Mind you I've not been at O'Hare since I was 13 or so, and that for maybe 20 minutes, so conditions there might be different. Just putting forward the idea.

--Shawn

 

[Rick Deckard]

And as for (b), we've already had Peter Davenport indicating in statements elsewhere that some of those employees were threatened with termination of their jobs. I don't know about any of you, but if my employers threatened my job, I'd think not just twice, but about 50 times about releasing photographs or going public.

Stuff em - we have something called tribunals over here in the UK to deal with unfair dismissals. My photos would be on the net the second I got home. I have the freedom to do as I please within the law - there's no law prohibiting me from publishing my photos.

People should stand up for what they believe.

 

[sk4p]

I don't disagree, but dealing with the loss of a job in the US is pretty difficult, depending on what union you're a member of, if any. Now I know a lot of airline employees are unionized, but I don't know if it's all of them.

I'm just saying that if you make say $50,000 a year and are supporting a spouse and child, you are a lot less likely to take the risk. Even one or two months without pay can get you in a lot of financial trouble, given how much debt many Americans are in - that's a lot of bad credit. And to get reinstated you might have to retain a lawyer, and that costs money you may not now be able to spare, etc.

Standing up for what I believe in is cold comfort if my wife is pissed and my kids are going hungry. The US is definitely not the UK. It can happen.

Like I said, I'm just being a devil's advocate, I'm not sold on O'Hare either. But a cover-up doesn't strike me, for once, as that hard to pull off, if something happened.

--Shawn

 

[Rick Deckard]

Okay, let us play the 'dismissal' game - on what grounds would an employee be dismissed?

On seconds thoughts, forget it. It doesn't really matter does it? How would I know what a genuine photo looked like anyway...

 

[sk4p]

I don't think you see my point.

There don't need to be decent grounds. Some made-up charges of insubordination? Sexual harassment? Staring at the flight attendant a little too long and it was noticed and reported?

All you have to do is threaten to dismiss someone and have them out of work for a month or two. "Sure, our dismissal is groundless, but we're a big airline with big lawyers, and you're some guy with a family who just lost his job. Good luck finding the money to fight us."

Now maybe he gets ballsy and thinks "I'll do it, I'll make the headlines being the little guy who got help from a pro-bono lawyer and beat the system." But even then, to what end? I made front page on CNN.com with my photograph of a possible UFO. Awesome; now the whole world thinks I'm kinda kooky. My family went through hell for months living on the help of friends, and is now thrust into the public spotlight, because I couldn't keep my mouth shut about a damn photograph of something weird I saw in the sky.

Isn't it a lot easier and safer to just not rock the boat and say to yourself "Well, someone else must have seen it, let them come forward, why should I be the one to put up with this?"

If your idealism is so powerful and your job security/financial status so secure that for you this is such a no-brainer, then you have both my respect and my envy.

--Shawn

 

[BrandonD]

I don't disagree, but dealing with the loss of a job in the US is pretty difficult, depending on what union you're a member of, if any. Now I know a lot of airline employees are unionized, but I don't know if it's all of them.

I'm just saying that if you make say $50,000 a year and are supporting a spouse and child, you are a lot less likely to take the risk. Even one or two months without pay can get you in a lot of financial trouble, given how much debt many Americans are in - that's a lot of bad credit. And to get reinstated you might have to retain a lawyer, and that costs money you may not now be able to spare, etc.

Standing up for what I believe in is cold comfort if my wife is pissed and my kids are going hungry. The US is definitely not the UK. It can happen.

Like I said, I'm just being a devil's advocate, I'm not sold on O'Hare either. But a cover-up doesn't strike me, for once, as that hard to pull off, if something happened.

--Shawn

I'd have to agree that 99% of the people in an airport are indoors and not looking up in the sky. Also, just knowing the people I work with it's obvious to me that the average man would go to some pretty great lengths in order to keep his job. People are afraid to speak even about non-controversial topics that might invite trouble... much less ufos! This doesn't mean that O'Hare definintely happened, but I can't see a good reason yet to seriously doubt that it happened.

Deckard I agree with you that people should stand up for what they believe. Those of us here who are idealistic might sometimes think that other people have this mindset too. But in my experience, they generally don't.

 

[Rick Deckard]

If your idealism is so powerful and your job security/financial status so secure that for you this is such a no-brainer, then you have both my respect and my envy.

I can say these things with the utmost confidence because I'm 99% sure that I will never find myself in that position.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Deckard I agree with you that people should stand up for what they believe. Those of us here who are idealistic might sometimes think that other people have this mindset too. But in my experience, they generally don't.

Well, I've 'done my bit' with my immediate circle of family and friends and none of them have taken any notice whatsoever - and that's because it's my 'reality' versus the reality pushed my the media. No contest.

My pursuit of this subject has had nothing but a detrimental affect on my life - it's a lost cause.

The only people likely to continue with this pursuit are those that have been personally affected by it - they *know* something is going on whereas the rest of us have to make our own minds up based on the evidence; and there isn't much of that around.

 

[sk4p]

If your idealism is so powerful and your job security/financial status so secure that for you this is such a no-brainer, then you have both my respect and my envy.

I can say these things with the utmost confidence because I'm 99% sure that I will never find myself in that position.

Well-said, sir. And Eris willing, neither will I. Cheers.

--Shawn

 

[BrandonD]

Well, I've 'done my bit' with my immediate circle of family and friends and none of them have taken any notice whatsoever - and that's because it's my 'reality' versus the reality pushed my the media. No contest.

My pursuit of this subject has had nothing but a detrimental affect on my life - it's a lost cause.

The only people likely to continue with this pursuit are those that have been personally affected by it - they *know* something is going on whereas the rest of us have to make our own minds up based on the evidence; and there isn't much of that around.

Well I hope you don't decide to quit the ufo subject. Or at the very least, don't quit the forum. Who will back me up in my campaign to convince David to check out the faked nasa photos?

 

[Rick Deckard]

Well, this forum is the only 'UFO' activity in my life - I stopped reading UFO books and watching vids quite a while ago...

...I still listen to the podcast every week, but that's about it.

 

[Brian Now]

Thank you Mr. Bladerunner for mentioning that O'Hare "incident" !!

I always remember hearing that O'Hare used to compete with Dallas/Ft Worth as the busiest airport in the US. I really do believe out of all the people driving in and leaving someone would have seen something...even if only a small % saw something, and out of them a smaller % took a picture we would still have some viable photos on the internet.

Besides, wasn't it on the Paracast we heard that people were pulled over on the road taking pictures with cellphones? Pilots and air traffic controllers excluded, many of the employees who would have been "gagged" by the employers would probably have been ground crew...and I truly do not believe you could have successfully gagged all of them who saw it.

Maybe the color of the object and the light conditions of that day made it difficult to see unless you were almost right under it, I don't know, but the whole thing seems a little fishy. And I was so hopeful of something interesting coming out of this case.

 

[David Biedny]

The only people likely to continue with this pursuit are those that have been personally affected by it - they *know* something is going on whereas the rest of us have to make our own minds up based on the evidence; and there isn't much of that around.

I think that's exactly on target, and is the reason I've lost my mind and gotten involved with this show. My experiences have had an extremely profound effect on my life, and I basically squelched thoughts of these topics for many years, a majority of my adult life, even as the experiences kept happening. It's just about impossible to convey the feelings to someone who has never undergone a paranormal encounter, and I've really gotten some flack for my disclosures on this show.

Check out the email I just recently got regarding the experience surrounding the death of my mother, from Marie in Italy:

----------------------

Message: Dear Mr. Biedny I think it is,

Just heard your paranormal personal story about the CD's and your mother and Shivah and all. Now it's my turn.

Have you ever been checked out for epilepsy?
Do you always suffer from these hallucinations or is this the first time?
Have you been clinically tested for serious neurological disorders?
Do you have scolastic credentials proving that you can read and write?
Are you able to stand on one foot with both eyes closed?
Have you ever been credited for anything else besides a wild imagination?

My advice to you is:

Never step into the toilet alone
Hold onto a trusted friend's arm while walking down the street
Keep your menorah lit 24 hours a day taking care that none of the seven flames ever goes out
Don't dwell on your problem and keep busy by hand washing your skull cap frequently
Keep obvious paranormal thoughts out of your head such as the tendency to want to appear reasonable
Only speak when spoken to by someone who is threatening your life even if this means never speaking again although I doubt it
Buy a bunch of Cds every week or so without looking at the covers (this is somewhat like keeping your fingers crossed only better)
Sing out loud after dark
I cannot overstress the importance of this last point.

If and when none of the above brings any serious relief, then and only then should you proceed with the first series of suicide attempts.

When are you two clowns gonna sit down and do some serious homework? Read a book. Sound like way out idea? What if you start making sense afterwards, won't you be glad I told you?

Love,
Marie

----------------------------------------------------------

The tone and content of this person's message is, IMO, simply vile. What did I do to merit this response? I don't know, but I'm sure that there are those who feel that I've treated some of our guests with a similar tone and approach. I hope that, at my personal worst, it doesn't get as bad as the above.

But that's the name of the game in this realm.

As far as the O'Hare incident, I linked to the NARCAP report in another post, here it is...

While it might not be the definitive answer that everyone is seeking, it's comprehensive and sober. Something happened that day. It's going to be next to impossible to prove it.

 

[Rick Deckard]

The tone and content of this person's message is, IMO, simply vile. What did I do to merit this response? I don't know, but I'm sure that there are those who feel that I've treated some of our guests with a similar tone and approach. I hope that, at my personal worst, it doesn't get as bad as the above.

I find that email shocking - there are some truly 'damaged' individuals out there and unfortunately having an internet 'presence' means that those people can get to you.

I know this isn't in the same ball park, but I was playing a poker tournament the other day online and one of the players got knocked out early - before he left the table he said "I hope you all die of cancer". What sort of a world do these people live in?

 

[jritzmann]

What did I do to merit this response?

There's a particularly venomous female on the PAR board with Horn, thats probably her or someone like her.

I get that sh&^*t all the time, and it goes with exposing fakes and standing your ground, and putting forth opposing viewpoints of UFO cults and frauds.

 

[Rick Deckard]

What did I do to merit this response?

There's a particularly venomous female on the PAR board with Horn, thats probably her or someone like her.

I get that sh&^*t all the time, and it goes with exposing fakes and standing your ground, and putting forth opposing viewpoints of UFO cults and frauds.

Yep - we've all seen how the FIGU people plan attacks on their opposition. The pseudo-skeptics are just the same.

 

[CapnG]

The tone and content of this person's message is, IMO, simply vile. What did I do to merit this response? I don't know, but I'm sure that there are those who feel that I've treated some of our guests with a similar tone and approach. I hope that, at my personal worst, it doesn't get as bad as the above.

Wow, that's dispicabe (Daffy Duck impression not required). This person obviously has an axe to grind though and so does anyone else who thinks this kind of "communication" is acceptable. This is person is either:

A) Your run-of-the-mill shit disturber
B) Deeply in denial about the paranormal
C) Someone you've PO'd using a fake name and email
D) Any combination of the above

Personally I wouldn't pay it much mind.