UFO Questions

[ufogardener]

I'm saddened by Jeff's new project, "Paratopia." It seems to undermine his credibility. In the past, I enjoyed listening to his experiences, but now it feels like he's making them seem facile (particularly when speaking alongside those who sound marginally imbalanced.) Also, I remember that either David or Gene once spoke about a sighting that their father had over the house and a subsequent message to "leave it alone Lou." The UFO phenomenon increasingly feels like a glitch in the software of human consciousness. Perhaps it will simply maintain its integral, archetypal mystery against any inquiry. Perhaps it's just more logical to avoid frustration, anxiety and humiliation and "leave it alone" (lest we begin to sound like we've been shipwrecked on metaphorical islands whose poignancy has been rendered irrelevant by their own faux, pseudo-intellectual and clown like purpose.)

 

[Gareth]

How does one affect the other though? One hand they have the Paratopia thing which is really just an answer to New Age stuff and poking fun at it.

Then you have his experiences I guess. As long as you realise the Paratopia stuff is tongue in cheek I dont see how it detracts from his experiences.

 

[ufogardener]

I've had two "experiences" myself and it's taken me a long time to make sense of them. However, during both occurrences, although I was completely conscious, it felt like a dream state had become infused with my sense of "awakeness." I'm beginning to suspect that it's possible for a dream state to be overlaid during the normal conscious state and for dreams to become integrally associated with reality thus leading to what many deem to be an "experience." In essence, a fully visual dream overlay during waking hours without being able to separate the two. It explains the high strangeness perfectly.

 

[Catie]

Hmmmm.... I have seen Jeff's redesigned website and I have heard Vaeni's podcast. Although they both rage against so called "New Age" and having been on the "spiritual path" or "quest" myself... I fail to see the real "difference" between so called New Age and what they are seemingly aligning themselves with. Same words have different meaning when used by New Agers and those who are not New Agers? Really? All the phrase, New Age refers to, that I have been able to gather refers to this examination of so called non-traditional philosophies (anything non-traditional that falls outside of mainstream organized religion) and Eastern religions by Westerners. Let's face it, most Westerners would not be expected to be looking at Hinduism or Buddhism as a potential belief systems, and as such would be summarily lumped into this catch all category of being a New Ager... just as anyone studying shamanism or any of the Native American traditions would be also. That's not to say that there aren't a lot of very unusual beliefs to begin with... I have seen much of that at conventions like the Conscious Life Expo here in Los Angeles, but then again, there is a need to put on the old thinking cap on and practice some discernment ie, critical thinking and sift out the valuable from the not-valuable. Frankly, I was equally saddened at this "Paratopia" thing. I enjoyed Jeff's website and his fledgeling podcast before this when it was uniquely his. And I liked Vaeni's work as a separate entity unto itself. I guess we shall see what we shall see. :question:

 

[Gareth]

Its the sort of new age shit like "you just need let love and light course through your body and guide you". "You need to check within to determine whether you can go to the fairy congress".

I think Jeremy got frustrated when he used terms commonly used by new agers when he was describing his energy thing. The difference there being he is saying that this energy literally came into his body, but new agers will say something and wont mean anything, like "you just need to open up and let the energy of the mystic earth enter you and you will be at one with nature." What the fuck does that mean? Nothing.

But if we are to believe Jeremy, then what he says is some sort of energy came into his body and animated it. I dunno, I spose they could answer you better.

 

[0uterj0in]

High strangeness is like the coalminer's lung of UFO inquiry. Sustained, serious inquiry means prolonged exposure to toxic levels of strangeness. The strangess ultimately rubs off on the inquirer and they eventually develop weird/flakey/silly personality attributes. Their own personal weirdness enables society to dismiss them and anything they have to say. It also discredits anything they said previously. Classic case here is Streiber, but try putting the shoe on any well-known UFO figure and see how well it fits.

 

[dusty]

Personally I think some of the previous comments are a little harsh,

Particularly as this is J and J's first show together. I think most of us are aware of their frustrations with the field, and their style of presentation has maybe yet to develop.
I myself found the looped seagull in the background a bit irritating (sounded a bit like laughter after a while).

It looks like a great combination to me however. The contrast of Jeremy's humorous nature and Jeff's more laconic style. Will I think in time deliver another highly effective platform for serious disscussion of the paranormal, due to their tenacity, honesty and personal experiences.

I wouldn't expect to hear the same delivery as The Paracast, then you would get people calling it Parrot topia.

I had a similar experience to Jeremy's one time, ie a sudden realization of the interconectedness of all things, and that me wasn't just necessarily me after all.
That and some other stuff he has mentioned ring a very loud bell for me, and I appreciate Paratopias different style.

"Vive La Difference"

Mark

 

[Gareth]

I agree. For me personally, I dont much care about the 'ongoing weekly narrative' but based on last weeks show they still provide exactly what Im interested in: an interesting guest with relevant discussion afterwards between J & J.

Also I admit its too early to call on the 'narrative' thing theyre doing. It may end up being entertaining/funny.

 

[Noanswers]

Before I got to the end of your post I was thinking "Strieber". You are right.

 

[Catie]

Its the sort of new age shit like "you just need let love and light course through your body and guide you". "You need to check within to determine whether you can go to the fairy congress".

I think Jeremy got frustrated when he used terms commonly used by new agers when he was describing his energy thing. The difference there being he is saying that this energy literally came into his body, but new agers will say something and wont mean anything, like "you just need to open up and let the energy of the mystic earth enter you and you will be at one with nature." What the fuck does that mean? Nothing.

But if we are to believe Jeremy, then what he says is some sort of energy came into his body and animated it. I dunno, I suppose they could answer you better.

Well generally, I think when ever anyone talks about energy, even in the context that Jeremy speaks about we can have an "idea", more or less, of what that is. We all use and understand the same words, its not as if new definitions have been made up. If that were the case no one would understand anything. As for your example, I agree there is a lot of BS out there... but that's the kind of thing that has to be filtered out, recognizing it for what it is and left behind. New age or not, no matter where you look or what topic you choose to examine, you will discover that there is a finge element, but that doesn't mean everything you come across is going to be utter nonsense. Personally, the minute, something off-the-wall is being said, I tune out and move on. Its the same in the UFO world... if someone says something that doesn't jive or sound right, I note it and I take it with a large dose of salt.

 

[ufogardener]

Jeremy is rebelling against the "new age," which is fine. But his energy experiences have a very "spiritual" nature and such a generalized revolt against the "new age" almost seems like a subconscious reaction that is preventing him from investigating the source of his experiences. So much of this topic appears to have the potential to be understood by accepting its "spiritual" roots. Yet the source itself seems to have a built in negative feedback mechanism that propels the experiencer into a pattern of denying the experience itself. This manifests itself in several ways. Experiencers grow angry at investigations of the "self" in connection with the topic, "feel" that something is hindering the progress of their understanding, grow frustrated at the insight of people like Vallee and feel like they're walking in psychological quicksand. Greenfield's background is steeped in the occult and yet, en masse, oddly, the dots aren't connected. The protection mechanism clearly points to a definitive connection to the subconscious, yet, by the sheer deviousness of its preventative actions, it denies the investigator and experiencer the opportunity to explore this avenue. It seems like Allen Greenfield would make an outstanding analyst of Ritzmann and Veiny in the context of an episode of the Paracast. Think in terms of both R and V on the couch and Greenfield in the psych's chair - using occult (not traditional analysis) principles (in which he is so adequately versed) to fully interpret his patients. It would not only help R and V get through their blocks, it would also be the best episode of the Paracast ever. (You're welcome )