UFO's Were Dragons Once

[Burnt State]

Something's been really bothering me since i listened to Vallee (i think) tell a story from ancient China, this sighting of bright dragon egg pearl of a UFO floating above a river then disappearing into the sky. Indeed, dragons themselves, represent the primal forces of nature in Asian culture. They are the instigators of everything, They taught humans how to talk. They are supernatural magical creatures flying through the sky and deeply affecting the populace in their stories and culture.

But then the whole history of humanity is replete with the sighting of magical creatures, from leprechauns, to the little people, Bigfoot and faeries, mermaids and now black eyed children. For every age there is a sighting, and for each culture from antiquity to the present (see Wonders in the Sky) we have had sightings in the sky of a variety of technological forms as appropriate to the age.


Basel Sighting Engraving 1566

The phenomenon has stable, invariant features ... But we have also had to note carefully the chameleon-like character of the secondary attributes of the sightings: the shapes of the objects, the appearances of their occupants, and their reported statements vary as a function of the cultural environment into which they are projected.

The UFOs are physical manifestations that simply cannot be understood apart from their psychic and symbolic reality.

Vallee in Dimensions

The only time i can consciously remember having a perfect visual hallucination was when i was having an incredible childhood fever. While wide awake beside my father in my parents' bed i was pointing and yelling at a flaming Chinese dragon dancing in mid air, its bright neon colours breathing wild fire everywhere. It was a glorious, fearful sight. Earlier in the week we had been to a familiar Chinese restaurant in town with a beautiful gold dragon sculpture and many dragon paintings. I was fascinated with them as a child. Still, the dancing neon image is burned into my mind, like my UFO sighting, and as much as i was scared, i remember it was somehow beckoning me, compelling me to look, just like those UFO's did.



So what do you think it's all about? All these UFO's, and other oddities, all appear to be culturally tied to the technologies of the time and/or the popular folk culture of the time. It still doesn't mean that there isn't some kind of stimulus that starts it all off, but there is little by way of confirmed, evidence that could help confirm its reality. Instead it is something that appears to defy many of our own laws of physics, but in doing so often confirms our expectations of what the fantastic should be able to do, suddenly appear and disappear. So are we dressing the stimulus in what our brain tries to perceive it as, tries to make sense of it? Depending on your era, will you see leprechauns or greys? Or maybe it's all just a trick of the light.

 

[RadarRyder]

You've got a point there sir,
The human brain is a wonderful and complex organ. It was just last week that doctors were able to see memories being formed in the brain via some type of "superscope." As for the desire to stay affixed to a sight that defies exlpanation, I submit that it is just human curiosity in what is being viewed. Perhaps a trait in all animal species of this planet. If we see something we don't quite understand we watch it to try to and make reason of it. Our primitive brain is working it's hardest to decipher the image and give itself (you) a perfectly logical explanation for what you're seeing (altough at times it can't acheive that result). I'm not sure about how the objects are linked to historical times. Wasn't it one of the great battles of Alexander the Great where he noticed that there were flaming sheilds (his only way at the time to describe a modern day UFO) in the sky near the battle field who supposedly told his mystic that he would win the battle.........???? (something like that I think.)

This reminds me of a UFO sighting in the Russian Oblast Region, near the Ural Mountains in the early 2000's. The story goes (it is just a story as there is no physical evidence that it occurred-but then again it's Russia.) a quarry worker was arriving to work at the quarry where he is night foreman, if I remember correctly. As he arrives he notices a bright light overtop a large rock pile. He stated that the light reminded him of a cars halogen headlights. Anyway as he stared at this light it bounced around the pile. He stated that a second light appeared, very close to the first, and locked it's beam on him. He stated that he could then see numerous lights appear from around the first two lights and their numbers grew more and more as he watched. He stated that these "lantern type lights" started to move very quickly toward him. He stated that as this happened, he devleoped an overwhelming feeling of fear. He stated that he shouted numerous times "Who's there!!", but there was never a reply. The night foreman stated that he then hid behind a large generator and broke his line of sight with the light object. As this happened he said the lights that were once advancing toward him started to receed back to the first main light. As he hid behind the generator he once again locked his gaze upon the light, and once again the spooky lantern lights started to advance toward him very quickly. He stated that the movement of these lights reminded him of several people running toward him with flashlights in their hands. Once again he became extremely frightened and looked away from the light. Once again he said the lights started to retreat back toward the main light. In his statement to the investigator he stated that this light object seemed to only be alerted into action if you were to lock your gaze on it. He noticed that as long as he didn't look directly at the light object, the object would let him go about his business. He also noticed that the light didn't react to animals, other lights, and so forth. He could never see what the source of the lights were as they were so bright he could not see beyond them.

There was another sighting of this same object by a forrest ranger about a year before the quarry worker had his sighting. The ranger gave the same details as the quarry foreman as to the lights actions as he would stare at the light. (Very strange story)

 

[manxman]

its not the madona you should be checking out, its the man shielding his eyes and his dog looking up at whatever was there, the artist has painted what he has seen.

old painting man dog ufo - Google Search

 

[manxman]

this ones another, how could anyone even imagine a sputnik type object, hundreds of years before, even down to a reflection of shiny metal..

 

[Soupie]

Unexplained phenomena are definitely described by individuals using the cultural language of the day. A great example of this was recently posted at boingboing.net:

How hallucinatory art led to a better understanding of migraine neurobiology - Boing Boing

The image at the top of this article was drawn in 1941. It's in black and white, and the patterns it shows are, typically, in color, but other than that it's a pretty straightforward representation of the stuff I usually see when I have an ocular migraine. That pattern, which makes me think ugly, 80's-inspired clothing, was, to earlier eras, more evocative of defensive, medieval town walls. Because of that, it's called the fortification spectrum. It's such a common hallucination to see that its presence is almost diagnostic. You can see the fortification spectrum in illustrations dating back to the earliest known drawings of migraine hallucinations, which appeared in Scivias, an illuminated manuscript written by Hildegard of Bingen in 1180.

UFOs, cryptids, the paranormal, and conspiracy theories get lumped together, I think, because they are domains on the fringe of the "official story" given to us by Consensus Science, Government, and the MSM. However, I don't necessarily think they all have a common cause/origin.

I personally think some UFOs are "nuts and bolts" craft unknown to the public; their origin and nature, I don't know. Same with cryptids: some really are flesh and blood creatures that haven't yet been documented and accepted by Consensus Science.

At the same time, I think some UFOs and cryptids do have a common origin/nature with other paranormal events, such as ghosts. These paranatural events/entities may be composed of a wholly non-material element or as I tend to think, they may be entities composed of matter/energy in a way not currently understood by Consensus Science. I think it's these experiences that unfold via "co-creation." Since we can't intellectually understanding what we're seeing/experiencing, our conscious minds fill in the blanks using the best knowledge they have: our personal worldview and the larger cultural worldview. However, I also think some of these entities are simply bizarre, at least compared to the biological entities we know on Earth.

Of course, many UFO, cryptid, and apparent paranormal sightings/experiences are simply misidentified/misunderstood natural phenomena documented by Consensus Science.

When it comes to experiences such as Out of Body, Near Death, Meditation, Lucid Dreaming, Astral Walking, and Visionary Plants, I'm not sure what to think. A common element in these experiences appears to be DMT, either externally ingested or internally produced via the Pineal gland. It's possible these experiences of "hyper reality" are "simply" internal experiences heightened by DMT. (Of course, those who have had one of these experiences would argue it was so hyper real that it's hard to believe that it wasn't.)

On the other hand, the universe, according to Consensus Science, is a frothing sea of particles, all of which are intimately linked. Consensus Science has no working hypothesis of how these particles create consciousness, including our consciousness. Thus, the possibility that our consciousness might expand out from the brain/body, move completely away from the brain/body, or exist without the brain/body has to be considered.

To summarize, my current opinion is that, setting aside the misidentified/misunderstood, these events are the result of humans interfacing with/observing natural phenomena. However, it may be natural phenomena of which only a small elite are knowledgeable about (i.e., some UFOs may be the result of undisclosed advanced human/non-human technology), or it may be natural phenomena that Consensus Science doesn't understand (entities made of pure energy and phenomena related to how our consciousness/mind interfaces with the material world).

It was Arthur C. Clarke who said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I would say: "Any sufficiently unexplained natural phenomena is indistinguishable from magic."

However, in both cases, that doesn't mean that magic (i.e., the supernatural) is the answer.

 

[Burnt State]

The human brain is a wonderful and complex organ. It was just last week that doctors were able to see memories being formed in the brain via some type of "superscope." As for the desire to stay affixed to a sight that defies exlpanation, I submit that it is just human curiosity in what is being viewed. Perhaps a trait in all animal species of this planet. If we see something we don't quite understand we watch it to try to and make reason of it. Our primitive brain is working it's hardest to decipher the image and give itself (you) a perfectly logical explanation for what you're seeing (altough at times it can't acheive that result). I'm not sure about how the objects are linked to historical times. Wasn't it one of the great battles of Alexander the Great where he noticed that there were flaming sheilds (his only way at the time to describe a modern day UFO) in the sky near the battle field who supposedly told his mystic that he would win the battle.........???? (something like that I think.)

I feel like the time I heard the story about the flaming shields was through Vallee but I could be wrong. Check out this skeptical discussion about the historical accuracy about the flaming shields. Especially fascinating is the battle tactic from the time period of heating up shields in fire and then flinging them into battle with all sorts of hot debris including dung and sand that would find its way between any protective shields or clothing of the soldiers and burning them badly - ancient battle was so inventive and brutal at the same time.

Chronicon Mirabilium: Did Alexander the Great really see UFOs ?

I love the story from Russia - that one is worth researching especially if it has a connecting story of similar phenomena in another country.

I agree that our brains work to 'normalize' unknown or incomprehensible stimulus by constructing images that seem to make some kind of sense to us the way that our dreams try to pull together images to assist us with learning tasks or working through the issues of the day.[/quote]

 

[Burnt State]

its not the madona you should be checking out, its the man shielding his eyes and his dog looking up at whatever was there, the artist has painted what he has seen.

I really enjoy all the old paintings, woodcuts and other odd history art anomalies for all manner of weirdeness to be found in the history's representation on canvas. For a critical, alternative look at these images that appear to have UFO's in the sky:

The Art Of Imagining UFOs

What's even more fascinating for me is how I have chased down so many of these alleyways myself to almost always wind up disappointed, disenchanted and far more skeptical than when I started the process of re-engaging the search for truth behind the UFO mythos. Still, I can not shake the fact that these odd reports are so tied to the cultural imagery f the time. Though, one only has to read the bible if you are looking for paranormal tales of giants, life after death, demonic possession, strange glowing orbs etc..

 

[Burnt State]

Unexplained phenomena are definitely described by individuals using the cultural language of the day. A great example of this was recently posted at boingboing.net

These were amazing images and speak a bit to just some of the visual hallucinations that our perceptual and cognitive apparatus are capable of creating. This one was my favourite:

At the same time, I think some UFOs and cryptids do have a common origin/nature with other paranormal events, such as ghosts. These paranatural events/entities may be composed of a wholly non-material element or as I tend to think, they may be entities composed of matter/energy in a way not currently understood by Consensus Science. I think it's these experiences that unfold via "co-creation." Since we can't intellectually understanding what we're seeing/experiencing, our conscious minds fill in the blanks using the best knowledge they have: our personal worldview and the larger cultural worldview. However, I also think some of these entities are simply bizarre, at least compared to the biological entities we know on Earth.

Certainly the language and imagery of the day must infect how we perceive that which we have never perceived before. I think that when multiple witnesses provide conflicting reports of the same event we should pay much more attention to the individual perceiver to determine what it is about that person that has caused them to dress the stimulus in the manner that they report.

When it comes to experiences such as Out of Body, Near Death, Meditation, Lucid Dreaming, Astral Walking, and Visionary Plants, I'm not sure what to think. A common element in these experiences appears to be DMT, either externally ingested or internally produced via the Pineal gland. It's possible these experiences of "hyper reality" are "simply" internal experiences heightened by DMT. (Of course, those who have had one of these experiences would argue it was so hyper real that it's hard to believe that it wasn't.)

I'm starting to suspect DMT as a role player n some of the more bizarre and surreal individual reports such as the humanoid catfish standing outside their gigantic saucer that straddled both sides of the highway, or flying tank tractors that descend from the sky and then ascend again a minute or so later. These episodes, that often have people reporting the OZ factor during their sightings, or just the general surreal distortions of consciousness during UFO occupant events, are highly suggestive of some kind of brain chemistry alteration.

I would say: "Any sufficiently unexplained natural phenomena is indistinguishable from magic."

However, in both cases, that doesn't mean that magic (i.e., the supernatural) is the answer.

Agreed. It's just that we have no other way to talk about or explain these things. And consensus science certainly doesn't support the idea of magic, so we are left with an unknown stimulus that we do our troubled best to both perceive & describe.

 

[RadarRyder]

Sir,
What are your thoughts about ancient cave drawings that appear to be, for all intents and purposes, space men or alien like beings drawn on the walls of these caves. What kind of being could evoke such an image of a people that would draw what they visually experienced??

 

[Burnt State]

Sir, What are your thoughts about ancient cave drawings that appear to be, for all intents and purposes, space men or alien like beings drawn on the walls of these caves. What kind of being could evoke such an image of a people that would draw what they visually experienced??

RadarRyder, I've been mulling this one over for a bit as I think that I've always leaned towards the early artistic capacity of humans in their cave art to be a combination of actual representations of the things important to them (their hands, even when they are missing a single finger, the animals they hunt, the trees that helped them out in so many ways, the sun that gave them warmth etc.) and of course the imagistic, abstract or metaphoric scenes that they saw in their dreams, in their musings or perhaps even actually saw. In earlier ages where much was revered, invented or constructed by the mind of the artist, the stories they shared and the need to record something of their identity and their concerns is what we see on their rock canvases.

This image comes from Italy and is 10,000 years old and there's a lot of cave paintings that depict really weird humanoid that appear to be wearing helmets, are encased in space like astronaut suits, actual objects that look like ships floating in the air etc. but these are all very difficult to interpret or talk about. We have no clue what they saw or what they were thinking when they created this representation. Were they stoned on plants? Were they just confused with all the ramblings in their minds that the depicting of a face or a head was just too much to take, or they just didn't have that artistic capacity to know where to start so they just painted this instead:

What are we to make of such images? It's obviously humanoid and could represent something as odd as the Flatwood's monster or simply just the feelings that they had inside their mind? Maybe these are just early forms of cave doodles? It's a real conundrum and only in cultures that we have some actual records, sustained oral history, written documents etc. that we are allowed to interpret some of the strangeness in their imagery. For example, Mayan culture had most of their beautiful codexes burned by European priests but we're at least able to piece some of their history and culture together, and we are exceptional with ancient Egypt and all the strange animal heads that appear as humanoids in their images. If we use these as clues, the fantastic imagery then is more about metphor and the defining a human culture through representational, ancient paintings and nothing too otherworldly at all. At least that's the side i fall down on.

This has broader implications of course regarding how folklore, culture and history are shaped in general and that the things we see in our heads, which we imagine or contrive may not have any basis in reality at all.

 

[manxman]

yada yada yada, heres another 'or ' and 'maybe' maybe they painted what they saw or that frightened them enough.

gotta love it, stone age man, with the wit and imagination, imagining spacemen in spacesuits, but they chose to live in caves.

 

[Burnt State]

Well I really like the fact that this poll closed off with Vallee's notion of the staged event. Some ufo events we know have been staged by humans, but the staging by an intelligence beyond us points to our own limited intellect. We'll never figer that out. We tend to reside in folklore; we use our imagination well; we have witnessed strange things; we love to tell stories.

Anyone curious for a more physiological discussion should consider delving into the "consciousness and the paranormal" thread as there we see the possibility of our mind dressing strange external events in the cultural knowledge we have front loaded and previously experienced.

But in honor of the dragon, one final image from the Golden Dragon disclosure project. I don't believe a word of it but I love their images:

And if you feel like a trip down the rabbit hole then please, by all means, follow the dragon straight up to the moon.

The Golden Dragon - Alien machine and technology on the Moon 2013 |UFO Sightings Hotspot

 

[dyingsun]

You're just ridiculing yourself here.

 

[Burnt State]

You better believe it.

 

[dyingsun]

Nah.

 

[Robert Baird]

If one person researching the stories related to the Grail and almost every religion can say for certain that any other person is above error or being duped - then that person is mistaken, too. In the last few months (see Gnostic thread) I learned worms are dragons too. Here is a source in myth from a long time ago which Moe of the Gnostic Warriors (he created) hallucinatory belief comes from.
David has been mind-fogged and sees these reptoids too.

About a decade ago I ran into a guy who said he was astrally taught by both Hassidim and the Mayans like Don Juan and Don Miguel. In short all these things have energy that traps and tricks average people into BELIEF through the dream state - that is an informed opinion but it is not my total or fixed opinion.

reverendsquid

I found the idea of Gabriel being a fallen angel quite odd, so I noodled around a bit on the net to see if I could find out why that's come about - apparently he didn't fall with the others, this was a separate thing. He was punished for a short period by God. I couldn't find out much about what he'd actually done, except for this:

'I read this in Norma Goodrich’s Merlin, on page 79, where she quotes Moses Gaster, who in turn quotes a Rumanian manuscript. (Rumanian manuscript 71):


The Archangel Gabriel was dispatched to take away the soul of a widow, but when he found her suckling twins, he left her soul alone.
God punished Gabriel for disobedience, by sending him for a stone at the bottom of the sea. But when the Archangel cut it in half, he found two "worms" (dragons) inside.

"If I feed worms," said the Lord, "do you think I would let twins starve?" God punished the erring angel for thirty years, and took the woman’s soul.

At the end of thirty years the Archangel laughed three times:
at a dying Abbot buying new shoes
at a beggar sitting on treasure, and
at a governor and bishop riding in pomp and circumstance, not knowing they were twins of the widow. {Sons of the widow is a Masonic code for Mariae and her alchemy, IMHO}

This version of the story also parallels the story in Vita Merlini. In fact, this Gabriel version even has a beggar instead of a diviner sitting on top of the gold. However, the major focus of this story is the underwater dragons, which don’t occur in Geoffrey’s Vita Merlini, but in his History of the Kings of Britain. Also, this version is missing the wedding that is cause for mourning because the husband is killed.

In Robert de Boron’s Merlin, the stories of the laughs and the underwater worms are reunited, which makes me suspect Robert de Boron did not merely use Geoffrey of Monmouth’s works as a source, but investigated the legends himself.'

Now, obviously this is a quote from a work of fiction, but it references a story told by Moses Gaster, who is a real person, and he did legitimate research. I'm not sure what it says about the nature of God, or the nature of Gabriel for that matter!

If you wiki Moses Gaster, he collected a lot of old manuscripts. He also wrote a book of ritual magic called the Sword of Moses. If you wiki Sword of Moses you can link to an online copy of it. Haven't had a look yet as ritual magic doesn't really paddle my canoe, but it may be brilliant, who knows?

One thing I do know is that Merlin came from a legend which goes back to Dolni Vestonici if not before - 29,000 years ago - is these people (DNN and keltoi) travelled all over the world and archaeology, genetics and many other sources make me (as well as my name and Bibliomancy) an expert.

As an expert in this particular branch of archaeomythology I often feel overwhelmed by the extent of the con games, and other ways of separating people from their money and mind. This Archangel Gabriel is also a source of Mohammad's visions that lead to Islam. Do I think adept Hassidim and Donmeh or Great White Brotherhood of Master Craftsmen types have participated in manipulating the energy ether to make people see what they themselves come to believe from the impact of prior ritualistic mind fogging? I certainly do. Do I think the energy builds up a consciousness of some sort after a couple of millennia of inputs? Maybe... I am not certain.