Veterans Day

[ward]

Thank you Don.

Thank you Rich.

 

[mike]

Ditto

 

[Randall]

Lest We Forget ... forget what exactly ... the fact that young men were drawn to their deaths by the war machine in a "War To End All Wars"? That's where the catch phrase came from, and it seems that last part has been forgotten fairly regularly since World War One. We've even turned it into a slogan to glorify war rather than remind us of its horrors. Consequently we've also forgotten that wars involve propaganda and the forced participation of people who would have rather kept the peace. We've also forgotten that the so-called "enemy" are people too, with families and mothers who feel no better about seeing their children go off to be slaughtered in the name of some ideology than our own parents do. And then when those victims come back damaged ... well how many of them end up forgotten as well? Those who glorify war and think it's contributed as positively as the alternatives are looking at the issues with tunnel vision, and one eye closed.

The U.S.A. entered World War One in April 1917, but lost no time in producing many more propaganda posters​

than any other single nation. These encompassed recruitment to the various armed services, plus - frequently - ​

the raising of war finance via the hugely successful liberty bond issues.​

​

 

[mike]

Dont get me wrong, war is horrible, and i can see how looking at the recent spate of smaller conflicts one might take a jaundiced view of the whole machine.
But sometimes the enemy leaves you no choice but to defend yourself.

Sometimes the nations blood is the only currency with which it can purchase peace.

Personally i can see the evils of the war machine, and the politics that is often to blame. But i can also recognise the sacrifice made by individuals , be that time away from home, limbs, and the ultimate sacrifice their lives.

I can honour the sacrifice, while at the same time be critical of the circumstances that forced them.

 

[Randall]

Dont get me wrong, war is horrible, and i can see how looking at the recent spate of smaller conflicts one might take a jaundiced view of the whole machine. But sometimes the enemy leaves you no choice but to defend yourself ...

The problem is that the "enemy" who you think you have to defend yourself from are often just as much victims of the war machine and propaganda as you are. I first learned of this when I worked for the electric system and it was my job to help manage our transformer supply. We'd also take in burnt out street lamps and send them to the lamp section for refurbishing. In that section was an old British guy who had been in World War Two. We used to sit and chat. He told me that there were times on the front lines in some places where the fighting was run on a schedule and that during breaks the two sides would plant a flag in the middle and meet to trade and play cards. Eventually the higher command came out and forced both sides back to fighting or face firing squads from their own superiors. Those types are in my mind the real enemy, the ones that start and perpetuate the killing, fueled by the industrial war machine investors and greed for their own advancement. But the story doesn't end there.

My immediate boss was a German who had also been in World War Two and we also had plenty of talks. He told me that he was basically drafted into the war as a boy and that it became his job to load shells into the anti-aircraft cannons. He felt he pretty much had to do it "or else" and he though that the whole "superior race" thing was propaganda. He was of course completely correct. But what have we done to stop that kind of insane abuse from happening again? We get involved in more wars and we buy into more propaganda that pits human against human and in the fallout completely innocent people die. The whole thing is totally sick. All that being said, there is still the reality that sick people who start wars need to be stopped, and if they happen to be these megalomaniacs at the top of some fascist dictatorship ... well what else can we do? It's still better to have to deal with the bullies from a position of strength. The challenge is knowing who is really pulling the strings behind the scenes.

BTW: None of this is meant to disrespect our service people in any way shape or form, only those who would use them wrongly by engaging them in wars that are not 100% completely justified, or bullies who would force people into wars against their conscience.

 

[Bob Watson]

I went to my dads grave site. I stood in silance. My kids placed flowers on the grave.they begain to cry they missed grandpa I saluted his grave. I recalled his service I just said thank you dad. My wife and I joined our kids in weeping. My dad served and hardly got thanks. And reconition. Honor a vet with your thanks. Before it is to late and he or she is gone....

 

[mike]

The problem is that the "enemy" who you think you have to defend yourself from are often just as much victims of the war machine and propaganda as you are. .

Perhaps i should clarify the context, "enemy" in this case refers to the ideology/intent of the regime responsible, not the soldiers, who as you say are often just as much victims as anyone else.

Imo Nazi germany and imperial japan had to be opposed, it was in that context i stated sometimes the enemy gives you no choice but to defend yourself.

By seperating these two issues, i can easily offer my respect and honour to those who did the fighting and dying.
It doesnt glorify war in my world view, on the contrary it recognises the horror and salutes those who stepped up to confront it , its not a job i would ever want to do, they bravely did .

 

[stonehart]

A little note of interest for you all from talking to an old WW2 vet years ago.

He had as much disdain for our own politicians as he did for the German ones he was fighting against. I think in his view they were just as bad as each other for it was through their failure that both wars every happened at all.

Interesting position to take but then again he was a history teacher so that sort of makes sense.

The thing that struck me most from what he had to say, was that when you were in the thick of the fighting it was not really about pride and honor of you nation, it was simply about surviving and looking after your mates around you. This also included the Australians if you happened to be with them at the time which is the old ANZAC spirit I guess (we may be rivals in sport etc but in the end we are two very close nations). But I ask you is this any different now as it was then on the subject of looking after you mates? I should not think so and from what I can tell of the guys fighting in the Middle East it is no different today as it was back then.

I have the highest respect for the men/women who are on the ground etc but absolute disdain for politicians who fail to avert the conflicts to start with. Yes I know not all conflict can be avoided but in the case of WW2 it is quite possible that it could have been. Not to go into history but we all know that the foundations for the Rise of Hitler were laid down during and immediately after WW1.

But anyway

Truly thank you Don and Rich.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

G,day Don & Richard & all the other Veterans on this forum,
Remembrance Day was clear sunny day and saw good turnout.
Also thanks to US Servicemen and Women currently serving at home and overseas,
Army Strong.