We're Living in 12 Monkeys

[stonehart]

Well I thought I may as well post this here as the conspiracy theory's are flying around right now with covid-19 and one world government.

This has to be the best and most reasoned out one I have seen, watch it and see what you all think, I mean yeah interesting stuff and let us all face it the powers that be have never seen a tragedy that they could not use for advantage.

Will keep my thoughts aside for now and see what others think.

 

[Randall]

Well I thought I may as well post this here as the conspiracy theory's are flying around right now with covid-19 and one world government. This has to be the best and most reasoned out one I have seen, watch it and see what you all think, I mean yeah interesting stuff and let us all face it the powers that be have never seen a tragedy that they could not use for advantage. Will keep my thoughts aside for now and see what others think.

I don't know how much of the fallout from COVID-19 is a "conspiracy", but there's no questions that if opportunists can use the crises to benefit themselves, they will. Here in Alberta we have some doctors who had participated in a curling tournament test positive, but with symptoms so mild they didn't even know they had it. Let's think about that for a second:

We have an invisible medical threat with symptoms so mild that even doctors don't know they have it, but is nevertheless so bad that we need to invoke a police state? I think we have every right to be concerned about abuses of power, a serious loss of individual rights and freedoms, including seizures of property. A lot of points on these issues have been made in the piece that IMO deserve some serious consideration.

 

[stonehart]

I don't know how much of the fallout from COVID-19 is a "conspiracy", but there's no questions that if opportunists can use the crises to benefit themselves, they will. Here in Alberta we have some doctors who had participated in a curling tournament test positive, but with symptoms so mild they didn't even know they had it. Let's think about that for a second:

We have an invisible medical threat with symptoms so mild that even doctors don't know they have it, but is nevertheless so bad that we need to invoke a police state? I think we have every right to be concerned about abuses of power, a serious loss of individual rights and freedoms, including seizures of property. A lot of points on these issues have been made in the piece that IMO deserve some serious consideration.

But again my friend we are thinking along the same lines, my whole nation is locked down right now and the police have now been given the power to enter any home they wish to make sure people are complying.... yeah the PM did not inform us that when she told the nation lockdown would happen.

Hell I wonder if I have already had this flu as I had one three weeks ago that fits all the main symptoms but it was very mild so just thought it was a cold and kept working, I just have some bad feelings about this whole situation and my BS meter is ticking away...

I guess we shall see but as I say the powers that be will use any situation no matter how tragic to forward their control.

 

[Randall]

But again my friend we are thinking along the same lines, my whole nation is locked down right now and the police have now been given the power to enter any home they wish to make sure people are complying ....

That is far more scary than COVID-19. Isn't the whole point of social distancing to stay home and as much away from people as possible? What is the point of breaking into people's homes to charge them with not leaving their homes? There are those who would contend that living in a police state is not worth living and would sooner take their chances defending their freedom.

 

[stonehart]

That is far more scary than COVID-19. Isn't the whole point of social distancing to stay home and as much away from people as possible? What is the point of breaking into people's homes to charge them with not leaving their homes? There are those who would contend that living in a police state is not worth living and would sooner take their chances defending their freedom.

The whole situation smells bad, yes there is a virus, no it is not good at all as in the case of Italy and Spain.... but ... it all just seems so convenient, I think the video I posted makes some very good points and some very good connections. As for NZ police that power will give them ability to search, arrest, and otherwise detain any who they see as a threat to the "lock down"... largely I should think this is aimed at the gangs/criminal organizations but it is easy to see how such power could be abused and I am frankly very concerned about any political entity's law enforcement having such power for they are so easily abused.

 

[Randall]

The whole situation smells bad, yes there is a virus, no it is not good at all as in the case of Italy and Spain.... but ... it all just seems so convenient, I think the video I posted makes some very good points and some very good connections. As for NZ police that power will give them ability to search, arrest, and otherwise detain any who they see as a threat to the "lock down"... largely I should think this is aimed at the gangs/criminal organizations but it is easy to see how such power could be abused and I am frankly very concerned about any political entity's law enforcement having such power for they are so easily abused.

Definitely. I occasionally call into a local radio talk show to voice my opinions about current situations, but for the first time in my life I've actually become concerned that my freedom to voice my concerns might be equated with inciting civil disobedience or some other BS charge. When the citizens become more afraid of their government than the thing their government is supposed to be protecting them from, there is definitely a problem.

 

[stonehart]

Definitely. I occasionally call into a local radio talk show to voice my opinions about current situations, but for the first time in my life I've actually become concerned that my freedom to voice my concerns might be equated with inciting civil disobedience or some other BS charge. When the citizens become more afraid of their government than the thing their government is supposed to be protecting them from, there is definitely a problem.

Absolutely Randall I hear what you are saying, here a few days ago I saw the freedom of my nation ended as we were all put into what amounts to mass house arrest... and the people demanded it...

Right now I am more than just a little bit concerned about expressing my opinions as I fully expect either to be hammered by the sheep on social media and have the cops turn up for saying bad words.... how the hell did we get to this place?

 

[Randall]

Absolutely Randall I hear what you are saying, here a few days ago I saw the freedom of my nation ended as we were all put into what amounts to mass house arrest... and the people demanded it ... Right now I am more than just a little bit concerned about expressing my opinions as I fully expect either to be hammered by the sheep on social media and have the cops turn up for saying bad words.... how the hell did we get to this place?

On the flip side, there is a certain narrow scientific logic to the battle against the pandemic. So although we might feel caught-up in a current that we have no control over, and aren't perfectly comfortable with, if we all do our part with social distancing, not hoarding, keeping our cool, and looking after our neighbors, we'll probably get through this just fine.

I got pulled over by the city police tonight on my way home because he thought I was exceeding the speed limit. He seemed almost as afraid of me as I was of him. He let me off with a warning to slow down. I thought that was pretty decent. We might not know everything about whatever it is that's going down, but we can navigate so as to be part of the solution within our own sphere.

 

[stonehart]

On the flip side, there is a certain narrow scientific logic to the battle against the pandemic. So although we might feel caught-up in a current that we have no control over, and aren't perfectly comfortable with, if we all do our part with social distancing, not hoarding, keeping our cool, and looking after our neighbors, we'll probably get through this just fine.

I got pulled over by the city police tonight on my way home because he thought I was exceeding the speed limit. He seemed almost as afraid of me as I was of him. He let me off with a warning to slow down. I thought that was pretty decent. We might not know everything about whatever it is that's going down, but we can navigate so as to be part of the solution within our own sphere.

For sure, no need for hording, well not for me as I have an extensive garden and always keep 90 days or more of supplies on hand due to the earthquakes we had years ago. My really worry I feel is the powers that governments goive themselves during these situations that they never let go of after... not a fan of over big government as it is so very inefficient etc

 

[Randall]

For sure, no need for hording, well not for me as I have an extensive garden and always keep 90 days or more of supplies on hand due to the earthquakes we had years ago. My really worry I feel is the powers that governments give themselves during these situations that they never let go of after... not a fan of over big government as it is so very inefficient etc

Being somewhat of an anarchist myself, I share your sentiment on government. But at the same time, if anarchy is the freedom of individuals to choose to do as they please, and it pleases a number of individuals to form a government, then it seems to me that the result is a paradox whereby all is anarchy, including government.

This situation results in a tension between individuality and conformity, the key to harmony being an appropriate balance between what is objectively speaking, better managed by governments than individuals. During times of pressure there is more friction on the points of contention. That heats things up, and any system can only stand so much heat before it becomes unstable.

At present, we're able to withstand the pressure because there is a certain amount of social responsibility that both individuals and governments realize can help to resolve a common situation. However as you rightly point out, the situation also creates opportunities for factions to expand their influence or agendas. Perhaps what we ought to consider is that this situation applies to everyone.

That means there is an opportunity for all sides to gain ground, and it's not a foregone conclusion that any one of them has to do so at the expense of the others. There is a third option that can leave us all better off, and it starts with not seeing everyone else as the enemy. If good people everywhere can work together, a win-win solution is possible.

I'm trying to maintain that heading, and part of that effort includes relaying that third option. If groups and individuals on all sides recognize it, then this crisis can be seen as an opportunity to turn negatives into positives. The questions are, how do we spread that message, and how do we engage the situation on that level?

 

[stonehart]

Being somewhat of an anarchist myself, I share your sentiment on government. But at the same time, if anarchy is the freedom of individuals to choose to do as they please, and it pleases a number of individuals to form a government, then it seems to me that the result is a paradox whereby all is anarchy, including government.

This situation results in a tension between individuality and conformity, the key to harmony being an appropriate balance between what is objectively speaking, better managed by governments than individuals. During times of pressure there is more friction on the points of contention. That heats things up, and any system can only stand so much heat before it becomes unstable.

At present, we're able to withstand the pressure because there is a certain amount of social responsibility that both individuals and governments realize can help to resolve a common situation. However as you rightly point out, the situation also creates opportunities for factions to expand their influence or agendas. Perhaps what we ought to consider is that this situation applies to everyone.

That means there is an opportunity for all sides to gain ground, and it's not a foregone conclusion that any one of them has to do so at the expense of the others. There is a third option that can leave us all better off, and it starts with not seeing everyone else as the enemy. If good people everywhere can work together, a win-win solution is possible.

I'm trying to maintain that heading, and part of that effort includes relaying that third option. If groups and individuals on all sides recognize it, then this crisis can be seen as an opportunity to turn negatives into positives. The questions are, how do we spread that message, and how do we engage the situation on that level?

Nice positive way to look at this Randall..... will think on this a little before making a deeper reply as it is always good to appeal to peoples better nature and for sure there are good people in government.

 

[Randall]

Nice positive way to look at this Randall..... will think on this a little before making a deeper reply as it is always good to appeal to peoples better nature and for sure there are good people in government.

The challenge it seems, is that it's always easier to blame others, pass the buck, or turn to violence, than it is to offer peaceful solutions that benefit everyone. Right now I'd say the smartest thing for the average person to do, is make sure that their household has enough supplies to last through whatever quarantine cycle might be imposed on their living space if anyone in their household becomes symptomatic, and then just do their best to ride it out.

Given the various factors I've looked at so far, It doesn't seem likely that the situation is going to be as bad as, or drag on for as long as some people fear. Even if you get the disease, the cycle from infection to end isn't all that long, and although symptoms can be life threatening for a few, the vast majority of people don't experience anything serious and recover just fine. Then they're're no longer symptomatic or infectious, plus they have a natural immunity.

I'm estimating we'll know the way that this is all really headed within 6-8 weeks, and by then the biggest problems might be more political than medical.