What if polite species avoid fact-to-face contact as a rule?

[Kevin Daly]

Here's one for you folks:
It's often been suggested that the suspiciously humanoid (i.e. the body plan conforms to the basic terrestrial vertebrate design) but often not-overly-endowed-with-personality beings reported are genetically engineered species or some kind of biological "androids". I think that's entirely possible - in fact I think it quite likely that one or more such creatures could be operated remotely using a kind of "telepresence" technology.
Perhaps any non-human beings we may be dealing with are sufficiently far from what we would regard as a humanoid form that for practical reasons and to avoid freaking us out they interact with us using constructs designed to roughly approximate our own form.
Nothing new there...but has anyone considered that tragic past experience may have taught them that in the presence of a truly alien organism most creatures, including themselves, are overcome by a sense of wrongness, in a word, of alienness, which makes it difficult to react rationally? There's your alien: It has the wrong number of bits in the wrong places, and WHAT's THAT SMELL? Maybe they not only anticipate that if we saw them in person we'd be seriously spooked/revolted, but that we'd also give them the heebie-jeebies?
It's just a thought.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I've considered the notions before.

After awhile I figure they'd get used to us. The first time a human faces a tiger or gorilla they may be scared, but people who work with them often are less afraid generally speaking. Even if they only view humans on tv, they'd get immune, or at least some aliens would. Just like a surgeon getting used to the sight of blood.

If the aliens make greys with at least partial intention to calm fears, they need to do a better job. Get rid of the greys and bring on the nordics. Or make them look like cute ewoks. Better yet, Natalie Portman. I wouldn't mind being kidnapped by her.

Pulling from actual reports, some hybrid children have given the impression that the abductee is scary. Some reports have the "aliens" perceiving us as dirty, and/or beneath them. Maybe a little creeped out, but then again, those "aliens" who would be majorly creeped out by us, probably wouldn't go for the job, and therefore we don't see them. Whether the job is viewing us on screen, from another room, or in person.

 

[fitzbew88]

...
Perhaps any non-human beings we may be dealing with are sufficiently far from what we would regard as a humanoid form that for practical reasons and too avoid freaking us out they interact with us using constructs designed to roughly approximate our own form.

Wow. That is a fascinating theory.

If the aliens make greys with at least partial intention to calm fears, they need to do a better job.

But Aaron raises a good question here..if they are going to go to all that trouble, why not make the "interfaces" look as much like us as possible? Dear God, they could at least add a blonde wig.

I recall a story of a famous astronomer sniping at an abductee by saying that it was strange that the aliens chose to abduct us instead of cows or giraffes or dolphins or some other more interesting animal. She replied with something to the effect that they are interested in us because we look like them, and that maybe the aliens that look like cows abduct cows.

It still makes me giggle.

 

[Kevin Daly]

I've considered the notions before.

After awhile I figure they'd get used to us. The first time a human faces a tiger or gorilla they may be scared, but people who work with them often are less afraid generally speaking. Even if they only view humans on tv, they'd get immune, or at least some aliens would. Just like a surgeon getting used to the sight of blood.

Remember though that compared with an alien race, the gorilla and the tiger are your brothers, as is for that matter the geranium.
If the reaction is physiological it might not be something they or we get over just by habituation.
On the other hand, if the beings reported really are what they look like, perhaps this is what the abductions are for...

As to why if the Greys/Grays (British vs US spellings) are constructed to approximate our appearance they don't do a better job, I can think of a couple of things.
a) There are reports that suggest that sometimes they do.
b) A close-but-no-cigar version might actually be less off-putting, if we allow that creating a fully convincing human imitation might be difficult. Google the phrase "Uncanny valley" to see some reasons why this might be the case.
Although I think this is highly dubious, the Men In Black might qualify as "Exhibit A".

 

[fitzbew88]

...
As to why if the Greys/Grays (British vs US spellings) are constructed to approximate our appearance they don't do a better job, I can think of a couple of things.
a) There are reports that suggest that sometimes they do.

Yeah...that's a problem. We don't know which reports are true...if we look hard enough we can probably find a report that supports any range of theories.

b) A close-but-no-cigar version might actually be less off-putting, if we allow that creating a fully convincing human imitation might be difficult.

We can't have it both ways. We can't theorize that the grays are interfaces so that we can cope with what we see, and then say they are different because it is less off-putting.

Well, I mean you can say that but it seems to invalidate the theory.

Google the phrase "Uncanny valley" to see some reasons why this might be the case.

No I don't like the way that sounds.

Although I think this is highly dubious, the Men In Black might qualify as "Exhibit A".

Yeah, I've only been thinking about your theory in terms of grays.

 

[mike]

Alan dean Foster explored this idea in his Humanx commonwealth series, notably "nor crystal tears"
in this case the Thranx were insectoid and resembled large cockroach's.
that resemblance was enough to cause some small issues according to the plot, but imagine if they were Spiders.

spiders "build" and some species even create their own "aircraft" to travel in. imagine a large sentient spider species. i dont know about you but no matter how evolved i personally became, i dont think i could share a room with something like the horror we saw in the lord of the rings movies recently.

the very idea gives me goosebumbs, i would never be able to handle that degree of fear, i would never be able to "trust" such a form.

i sometimes wonder if they dont feel that way about us

 

[Kieran]

Ok greygrey dont need your nonsense!!! Dont need to see the weird shit, just appear as you like notting else, and let us try to communciate? if it takes years so f...ing what, stop the shit, the fear and the anxiety.ye spent enough time on the planet, take a little time off your schedule.I dont want the shit of abduction i set up a table you sit across from me, and let us get a understanding? sorry guys this a rant. This is a ideal scenario for me, i believe for others as well. E.T CUT THE SHIT

 

[fitzbew88]

... imagine if they were Spiders.

Or chickens. Or deer. Or horror-of-horror: Cats.

We'd have a lot of explaining to do.

We're doomed.

 

[fitzbew88]

E.T CUT THE SHIT

And we have our new Paracast Battle Cry!

 

[Kieran]

LOLOL just opened up MY window looked up just siad E.T CUT THE SHIT

 

[Kevin Daly]

We can't have it both ways. We can't theorize that the grays are interfaces so that we can cope with what we see, and then say they are different because it is less off-putting.

Yes we can, 'cos I just did

The key is the "Uncanny Valley" argument. You can check out the Wikipedia definition (I know, I know) here (the idea was originally expressed in robotics, but it has been proposed that such an effect applies to CGI as well)

If an alien (or whatever) is, as is likely, very unlike us we may get a bad case of the willies and lose our tiny minds in a satisfyingly Lovecraftian manner (OK I'm exaggerating a little). On the other hand, if the imitation of humanity is very good, the presence of even small differences or inconguities can cause a negative reaction.

To quote from the above article:
"Mori's hypothesis states that as a robot is made more humanlike in its appearance and motion, the emotional response from a human being to the robot will become increasingly positive and empathic, until a point is reached beyond which the response quickly becomes that of strong repulsion. However, as the appearance and motion continue to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once more and approaches human-to-human empathy levels.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-mori33_1-0>[2]</SUP>
This area of repulsive response aroused by a robot with appearance and motion between a "barely-human" and "fully human" entity is called the uncanny valley. The name captures the idea that a robot which is "almost human" will seem overly "strange" to a human being and thus will fail to evoke the empathetic response required for productive human-robot interaction.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-mori33_1-1>"</SUP>

Now to cheat and suggest a completely different rationale: They might choose a just-alien-enough appearance because they think that's the sort of thing we'd expect, while reasoning that (Star Trek notwithstanding) we're clever enough to work out that anything that looks *exactly* like us either is us, or is a deception.

 

[fitzbew88]

Yes we can, 'cos I just did

But doesn't it leave us in a vacuum: If they look identical to us it's because they don't want us to be anxious. If they only look somewhat like us, it's because they don't want us to be anxious.

Or at a minimum, the theory would become moot. Any data would fit the theory!

 

[mike]

or perhaps the "intellect" behind the craft isnt organic at all, and simply "grows" its own interface from the existing gene stock of each funtioning biosphere it encounters as it travels the universe.

 

[Kevin Daly]

But doesn't it leave us in a vacuum: If they look identical to us it's because they don't want us to be anxious. If they only look somewhat like us, it's because they don't want us to be anxious.

Or at a minimum, the theory would become moot. Any data would fit the theory!

That's why I wouldn't call it a theory, just a hypothesis.
I merely raise the possibility as one worth considering that I think is not inherently ridiculous. I don't pretend it's the answer to anything, or that there's enough evidence to support it.

We have a serious lack of useful data (including examples of non-terrestrial life), and as you rightly point out it's easy to cherrypick data to fit any point you want to make, especially given the uncertainty about which reports reflect reality and which are bogus (or real but distorted).

Additionally of course, if there are or have been over time multiple races visiting us from...wherever, then some may do what I've suggested and some may not.

The only thing I'd say with confidence is that I don't think it likely that a truly alien species would be able to pass for human in person (although time travellers could...but that's another can of worms). So if you come across something that looks exactly human, either it is human, or it's faking it one way or another.

As a side note: I was surprised that at the height of the Alien Autopsy hoax very few people pointed out that the alleged "body" looked to all intents and purposes human - the head was a bit different of course, but the shape, proportion, and articulation of the limbs for instance was exactly human. That's asking a bit much of convergent evolution, and should've given it away immediately.

 

[fitzbew88]

or perhaps the "intellect" behind the craft isnt organic at all, and simply "grows" its own interface from the existing gene stock of each funtioning biosphere it encounters as it travels the universe.

Fascinating. But, do you think they would dare to leave such a thing to chance? I mean, what if you get to some new planet and the genetic material is incompatible or contaminated or everybody looks like Gene Wilder.

If I was Chief Alien Interface Coordinator, I would want to minimize the unknowns.

 

[fitzbew88]

That's why I wouldn't call it a theory, just a hypothesis.
I merely raise the possibility as one worth considering that I think is not inherently ridiculous. I don't pretend it's the answer to anything, or that there's enough evidence to support it.

Ah. Sorry, I didn't understand what you were going for there.

 

[mike]

Fascinating. But, do you think they would dare to leave such a thing to chance? I mean, what if you get to some new planet and the genetic material is incompatible or contaminated or everybody looks like Gene Wilder.

If I was Chief Alien Interface Coordinator, I would want to minimize the unknowns.

incompatible with what ? the process ?

my suggestion is that inorganic intellect travelling the universe might on encountering organic intellect , simply "clone" its interface from that species own DNA.
the process of cloning may or may not differ from location to location.

we ourselves send crude robot probes to other planets to collect and study "samples", this is the same process only more sophisticated

 

[fitzbew88]

incompatible with what ? the process ?

my suggestion is that inorganic intellect travelling the universe might on encountering organic intellect , simply "clone" its interface from that species own DNA.
the process of cloning may or may not differ from location to location.

But would you leave something like that to chance? What if you get there and you can't make an interface due to some unforeseen circumstance?

we ourselves send crude robot probes to other planets to collect and study "samples", this is the same process only more sophisticated

No, this is not the same process. We are not waiting to build our tools after arriving on site. We bring all our tools with us, and leave as little to chance as possible.

 

[Kieran]

Polite i dont think they believe in being polite!! When i invite people to my house, I would not expect them to brings strangers whom i had not invited.
I consider this phenomen to be intruders, they got no permission from me!! they invited themselves pretty ignorant. They dont respect us if the storys of Abductions are true!! We believe in free will so to speak. The ufo phenomen does not respect our christian ideals and principles, quiet simply human morals do not seem relevant or something to be respected. The ufo occupants for me at least, dont consider politeness as a relevant principle.

When i look at humans in power take George Bush as a example president of the most powerful country in the world. How did he respect other nations and there peoples!!!Think about it for a minutes or two.
Does the PHENOMEN that is ufos seem any different yes it is not human as far as we can tell? our is it human? but not humans that live openly in cities, towns, villages, Well it only a suggestion.

look at our history hitler, stalin, napleon bonaporte,julias ceasar this are just a few leaders from our past that influenced our culture and our world but yet the leaders didnt respect peoples from different countries in which they lived. Dont get me wrong as of this date ufos havent acted out in any aggressive way as far as i can tell. But yet things like Abductions seem to be going all through our history. They do it in stealth not openly why??c What is the principle motive for Abductions, Why i brought up the above leaders, ok with power comes responsibility, and ufos seem to have greater power and responsibility yet they dont seem to want to interact or god forbid attack us as far as we can tell.

It is could be possible wars are not something they have ever undertook?It is could be just a human pasttime? How they fight wars might be completely different to how we fight ours? I am always ranting lollol.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Wow. That is a fascinating theory.



But Aaron raises a good question here..if they are going to go to all that trouble, why not make the "interfaces" look as much like us as possible? Dear God, they could at least add a blonde wig.

I recall a story of a famous astronomer sniping at an abductee by saying that it was strange that the aliens chose to abduct us instead of cows or giraffes or dolphins or some other more interesting animal. She replied with something to the effect that they are interested in us because we look like them, and that maybe the aliens that look like cows abduct cows.

It still makes me giggle.

They may very well abduct cows too.