What's The Harm?

[derekcbart]

When belief kills | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

As a Type 1 Diabetic I have experienced diabetic ketoacidosis. It is not fun, but I only experienced it when I was first diagnosed and figuring out how to handle my diabetes. In the nearly 19 years since I have been diagnosed I have never had ketoacidosis since those first few months.

As a skeptic I am sometimes asked "what's the harm?" about people believing weird things. This unfortunate story painfully illustrates what the harm is.

 

[Frootloop]

very sad but sounds like a case of common sense failure due to blind faith

 

[TClaeys]

As a skeptic I am sometimes asked "what's the harm?" about people believing weird things. This unfortunate story painfully illustrates what the harm is.

Well, in this story the terrible results of believing is obvious. But to blanket the statement that believing weird things is harmful doesn't cross the spectrum of weird beliefs.

There have been recent studies that show that religious people, or rather spirituality, may help. And it may help people live longer, achieve long term goals, and use self control more often.
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/spirituality-may-help-people-live-longer
Why this may be true is another topic altogether. Perhaps it could be because of positive social interactions, community involvement, and all sorts of other intangibles. But the vehicle is spirituality or religion. So, I guess what I am eluding to is that some weird things may NOT be harmful, but rather beneficial.

It seems sometimes that hard core skeptics want to attack stories like the belief of God healing ailments like Diabetes. Of course that won't work. It is not fair to presume, based on the linked story, that belief (all belief) in "weird" things is harmful. Quite the opposite at times.

BTW, I am not religious. But I can see how such belief helps people, so long as it is not a polarized perversion of personal religious dogma.

 

[derekcbart]

Hi there.

Religion isn't the only "weird" belief that can cause harm.

This website: What's The Harm? catalogues a wide variety of "weird" beliefs that have caused harm. There is even a section on UFOs which may be of specific interest to members of this forum: What's the harm in UFOs?

Of course, not everyone who believes in "weird" things is going to harm themselves as badly as the people listed in the above website, but people can, and do, harm themselves from time to time.

-Derek

 

[Stillborn]

I posted an article long ago dealing with belief in ufos turning deadly. They sited the Heavens Gate cult as proof etc. The article was stupid. They cherry picked events and could have more correctly said, "beliefs can turn deadly" or "Stupidity can be deadly". Life is deadly... I'm sure the author drove a car, bus, cab, or took the subway to work. That can be deadly. Even if he'd walked to work. Coulda croaked there too. What was the point of the article? I might not be remembering correctly, it was awhile ago, but I think it was to not take ufos seriously. To me it was just someone having hang ups with a subject and using scare tactics to convert one away from it.

Belief in doctors has lead to many people dying btw. I didn't read all the article posted here, seemed bias.

 

[TClaeys]

Thanks for the site Derek. There are some funny stories there.

The harm in UFO's??
Heavens gate- more of a problem of susceptibility to persuasion rather than UFO's. It could well have been lephrachauns or clouds.
The couple that ran out of supplies because they went to a remote area? Well, not so much harmful in the belief in UFO's , but rather being unprepared.

I understand the point. Think!! But geez, walking is harmful. Driving is harmful. Laying in the sun is harmful. Gambling. Angry Whoppers. Work. Rest. Even exercise!! Harm comes about any number of ways and isn't a inherent to belief.

I go back to my point in that some belief is actually beneficial. Understandibly, people get hurt all the time irrelevant of belief. Is your point that belief is bad?? IMO, in some cases, absolutely yes, but in others no.

 

[derekcbart]

Is your point that belief is bad?? IMO, in some cases, absolutely yes, but in others no.

I would generally agree with your statement about some beliefs being positive and some being negative. My original point was that, as a skeptic, when discussing hoaxes or fraudulent claims (specifically psychic/medium claims) people have asked me "what's the harm?" or "So, what if they believe that a person is talking to the dead?" or "Who cares if someone spends all of their money on astrology/crystals/UFOs/etc.?"

I just wanted to point out that there are specific instances where not thinking critically can lead to very serious harm, and probably more harm than people would normally believe to be possible.

That is all.

 

[Frootloop]

I think one universal constant is that there will always be stupid people

 

[Stillborn]

I would generally agree with your statement about some beliefs being positive and some being negative. My original point was that, as a skeptic, when discussing hoaxes or fraudulent claims (specifically psychic/medium claims) people have asked me "what's the harm?" or "So, what if they believe that a person is talking to the dead?" or "Who cares if someone spends all of their money on astrology/crystals/UFOs/etc.?"

I just wanted to point out that there are specific instances where not thinking critically can lead to very serious harm, and probably more harm than people would normally believe to be possible.

That is all.

My experience, with woo woos Derek. Good luck making any points. I am referring to the people who believe Silvia Brown in the face of sound reason against thinking she's legit as an example, not anyone's comments here. Anyone dumb enough to not use critical thinking, won't get it if you spell it out for them. I applaud those who try however. It acts as a good reminder since many people have the ability, but well,.. just don't use it. But those who are truly gone? Might be in vain.

But if you think of critical thinking critically, and you use whether or not you die young as an example of any sort of measurement.... think of all the old dumb people you know, and all the smart people who've croaked young. If you want to live long, critical thinking is not your savior (necessarily) over stupidity. Then there is the whole ignorance is bliss bit. If you want to be angry, and crave lead, be a critical thinker. I'm not against critical thinking btw. I was having fun thinking critically, about critical thinking. Yes, I have a suicidal past. Sorry, was having a little dark fun is all.

As for beliefs being positive or negative. How do we measure that? I try and go with what's accurate. BUT, accuracy and truth has lead me to misery. If I'd only be stupid and conform, I'd be well.... in misery but deny it and think I was happy. Ok, another issue perhaps.

 

[skunkape]

More people die every year from legal, prescribed drugs than all illegal drugs combined.
More people in the U.S. die every year from allergic reaction to peanuts than from terrorist attacks.

 

[Gareth]

More people die every year from legal, prescribed drugs than all illegal drugs combined.
More people in the U.S. die every year from allergic reaction to peanuts than from terrorist attacks.

How do you know the terrorists arent flooding the market with bad peanuts?

 

[TClaeys]

I would generally agree with your statement about some beliefs being positive and some being negative. My original point was that, as a skeptic, when discussing hoaxes or fraudulent claims (specifically psychic/medium claims) people have asked me "what's the harm?" or "So, what if they believe that a person is talking to the dead?" or "Who cares if someone spends all of their money on astrology/crystals/UFOs/etc.?"

I just wanted to point out that there are specific instances where not thinking critically can lead to very serious harm, and probably more harm than people would normally believe to be possible.

That is all.

Thanks for the clarity. Perhaps I misunderstood the following:

Of course, not everyone who believes in "weird" things is going to harm themselves as badly as the people listed in the above website, but people can, and do, harm themselves from time to time.

I took this as belief will cause harm in some way. Either way, I understand. Point well taken. Thanks. Critical thinking is missing in many areas of society. Maybe even in Washington DC.

 

[Stillborn]

How do you know the terrorists arent flooding the market with bad peanuts?

They're too busy keeping them and shoving them up their allahoops.