Where are they from ?

[nikki630]

I discovered the Paracast about two months ago and have been listening to the episodes in order form the beginning. One of the themes that keeps repeating is the question of where they are from.

Now, I will admit that up till I started listening, the only hypothesis that I was familiar with was the ETH. Since listening to the show I have opened my mind to the other possibilities, and that since we really don't know anything each possibility has the same validity.

During the show with Stephen Bassett, there was quite a heated discussion about this topic. I did notice that Stephen never did answer David's question about evidence for the ETH. But I digress

What I really don't understand is why this seems to be such an important topic? We know that non-human entities are visiting (?) our planet, and in some way interacting with us. Isn't it more important to find out why they are here rather than worrying about where they are from ? To use an analogy, if someone is trying to kill me, I am not concerned with what country they are from so much as how to protect myself and why they are trying to harm me. I see the question of where the UFO-entities are from in the same way and as a secondary question.

 

[tommyball]

Well, when you're dealing with an unknown of this magnitude the what, where and why are deeply intertwined.

For those that accept the basic ETH as the answer to the phenomenon, it is a logical step to question where these advanced humanoids come from. The who, what, when and where in this hypothesis of contemporary but advanced beings from a nearby star system lies relatively close to our present sphere of perception and reality.

For others, like myself, the phenomena appears to be a complex set of events that cannot be explained as advanced intelligences traveling across the stars in physical craft to earth. Witnesses have experienced paranormal events that far exceed the bounds of physics as we understand them (even those possibilities allowed by advanced craft and propulsion). Recent scientific advances point to other dimensions and possibly universes. These factors lead us into a realm of possible explanations for the UFO phenomenon that extends far outside the bounds of who, what, where, when, how and why.

Until a large enough portion of the population is willing to approach the subject with an open mind and give it the scientific attention it deserves, we're all here just making up our own questions and finding our own answers...

-todd.

 

[Poi]

I guess I think all of the questions are important. On this topic I've become rather jaded though. Looks to me like there aren't any concrete answers to be found, at least for the public at large. Don't even know if there's some conspiracy of silence in higher ups due to the odd and varied responses from experiencers.

I'm not at all convinced that science might find anything concrete either. In fact, I don't like where I find myself, asking and expecting nothing. Kind of sad.

 

[The Hawk]

I see little reason to assume the weirdness surrounding visitors means they are sourced closer to home versus not, either way they would be alien to our understanding. To travel beyond light speed or inter-dimensionally some far out technology would need be involved and maybe random beings in the spaces between worlds, sometimes show up as a side effect of the technology and stuff gets extra weird. I must say I would be a bit disappointed though if none of the beings visiting us actually know how to travel to the stars; because that would crush my day dream that I might live to see interstellar travel.. but I want the truth no matter what it is.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I find it most important to get scientific proof of visitations. I don't get much caught up in origins so much. We humans don't even know for sure our own origins, let alone finding the origin of others. In order to know origins we'd have to prove cases that indicate origins. Even then, some will say the aliens tricked us. It's a shame Betty didn't get that book though (if her encounter was real), it may have ended SOME of the debate.

I've been trying for years to find a repeated abductee in my area to conduct stakeouts with. No clear abduction has been caught on "tape" so far, and that would be hard to hoax. That's one of the reasons you rarely see even a phony vid of them. It's a new caliber of evidence that is needed, yet most researchers don't even try.

So keep me in mind if you ever come across a good repeated abduction case in and around my area of Charlotte NC, or maybe even SC.

 

[nikki630]

Don't get me wrong, I am curious as to where they come from, I don't just see this as the most important issue and certainly not one worth arguing about. Since we don't actually KNOW anything about this phenomena, then all theories are equally valid. This is true for all the other questions around this phenomenon.

I agree that the most important thing right now is to get some sort of proof that will be irrefutable. This topic is so marginalized that any serious research is difficult if not impossible. Anybody can say anything, and they do.

I think once solid proof is offered a lot of the hoaxers and and B.S. artists will disappear. because with proof, comes some knowledge, and that knowledge will start to limit what people can say and still be accepted as a serious part of the community .

Until that serious research begins, then the who, what, where etc will be unanswerable, and all we will be left with is speculation based on the belief that this phenomenon is real.

 

[Shotgun]

This is just my personal take on things:

If these beings are actually physically humanoid (think typical 'grey' appearance) then this suggests to me that they are either:

- our decedents visiting from the future (to conduct a hands-on history lesson?)
- beings from another time/place/dimension/whatever that are NOT related to us but interested in us due to the physical similarities to them

This all (excuse the pun) flies out the window in the case that their appearance as humanoid is either their projection of themselves to us or our interpretation of their actual form. Or maybe they have no form at all and it's all up to our own perception as Jeff Ritzmann says.

Basically all we know is that some stuff is flying in the sky that we can't explain. I agree with David that it will probably be far stranger than we could possibly imagine. I think all we can do is educate ourselves and our children because the answer is probably centuries - not years - away.

 

[Goody]

They're from neither ere' nor thayyrr'. Dey exisst outside the time/space continuum.

 

[Poi]

After reading The Hunt For The Skinwalker, I wonder if earthly electromagnetic anomalies don't just blow our brains out for brief periods. That might account for the huge differences in some experiencers stories. Our shared human traits and culture might explain the stories that are so similar.

Or all that stuff really happens.

 

[nikki630]

After reading The Hunt For The Skinwalker, I wonder if earthly electromagnetic anomalies don't just blow our brains out for brief periods. That might account for the huge differences in some experiencers stories. Our shared human traits and culture might explain the stories that are so similar.

Or all that stuff really happens.

I don't discount the electromagnetic theory, but there are problems with it. There actually are some physical traces from this phenomenon, unusual soil changes and landing traces, and radar images. In addition there are multiple witness sightings where people have seen not similar things, but exactly the same things.

Unless the electromagnetic anomalies allow for humans to physically change their environment, and somehow telepathically transmit the same sighting then it seems unlikely to me that electromagnetic anomalies are the cause for this phenomenon.

One other thought on the electromagnetic theory. Wouldn't the incidents of sightings be higher around electrical high tension wires, since they give off electromagnetic waves ?

 

[Poi]

I have the same problems with it that you do, Nikki. But trying to twist one's head around these things can be wearing. Any possible answer is always thwarted by more and more questions.

The reason I said 'earthly' anomalies is because I meant those places where the earth's natural magnetics seem to go haywire. I don't think high tension wires are strong enough to do the trick, but I'm really just guessing. If I were standing somewhere and my trusty compass began to spin, I guess I wouldn't trust my senses. (But that's only a guess too as I don't have a compass.)

The trace evidence is the real stopper. But as suggested by the authors of the book I mentioned, trace evidence is rare and since anomalies are not repeatable enough to actually study in any depth, evidence is only as good as a study can use it to determine a truth. Where there is no trace evidence, there are no explanations that are viable, even given multiple witnesses. We haven't figured out how to study it beyond our current scientific means. So I've kind of thrown up my hands and brain.

 

[nikki630]

I have the same problems with it that you do, Nikki. But trying to twist one's head around these things can be wearing. Any possible answer is always thwarted by more and more questions.

Darn -- I never get to use the word thwarted. Seriously though -- because we have no real information about this phenomenon, I look at it as a mental exercise -- I get to propose anything I like.

The reason I said 'earthly' anomalies is because I meant those places where the earth's natural magnetics seem to go haywire. I don't think high tension wires are strong enough to do the trick, but I'm really just guessing. If I were standing somewhere and my trusty compass began to spin, I guess I wouldn't trust my senses. (But that's only a guess too as I don't have a compass.)

Well, not knowing what kind of power is involved earthly anomalies, and truth be told, high tension wires, I can't really say one way or the other. I do know that a while ago there were some controversial studies that link even very low levels of electromagnetic radiation to cancer -- not only from high tension wires but electric blankets as well. If true it would imply that you don't need high levels of E.R. to effect the human body. Of course then it could also be that certain people are more prone to be effected than others. That would explain why some people have multiple sightings of various phenomenon and others have none.

The trace evidence is the real stopper. But as suggested by the authors of the book I mentioned, trace evidence is rare and since anomalies are not repeatable enough to actually study in any depth, evidence is only as good as a study can use it to determine a truth. Where there is no trace evidence, there are no explanations that are viable, even given multiple witnesses. We haven't figured out how to study it beyond our current scientific means. So I've kind of thrown up my hands and brain.

There may be multiple phenomenon occurring. For example, most people assume that the abduction phenomenon is relate to UFO's. When they could be totally unrelated. Another possibility is that electromagnetic radiation is responsible for people being able to tap into a real phenomenon. The phenomenon is real the electromagnetic radiation allows people to see it. That could explain the trace evidence and why sometimes the UFO's seem to blink in and out of existence

I wonder if there have been any studies done on the effect of electromagnetic radiation on the brain? Does it cause people to have experiences like those described by David and Jeff? It seems to me that this would be a fairly easy test to perform by exposing people to high levels of E.R. and seeing what happens

Of course this is all speculation and will remain so until there is some hard evidence and or the subject is taken serious by the mainstream.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Aliens might not know their own origins. They may have spread out so much in space and time that it's hard for them to know. Just as not all humans are from the same city, asking an alien where it's from may be similar.

One of my favorite responses an alien gave a abductee who questioned their origin/s was, "We're from everywhere". Aliens might be from different time zones like us humans too. Only more complicated than Eastern and western times. One might be 1000 years different than another for all we know. Just as humans can pick the place where they want to live, others out there or wherever, can pick the when maybe.

I worry about the day we find out aliens are us from a future, where we are capable of dimensional travel and interstellar travel. Then nearly everyone is right about origins. It's us, time traveling from a time when we left Earth by using other dimensional traveling abilities. Why do I worry? IF that turns out to be the case, then It won't answer the question of "Are we alone in the universe".

 

[nikki630]

Aliens might not know their own origins. They may have spread out so much in space and time that it's hard for them to know. Just as not all humans are from the same city, asking an alien where it's from may be similar.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I would think that they would be at least be able to tell us where they are currently from, and perhaps even a a few other locations they come from. After all, I can tell you where I have lived all my life as well as my parents and great grandparents. For me it gets a little hazy after that. I would hope that beings that traverse stars/time/dimensions would be able to keep some sort of history.

One of my favorite responses an alien gave a abductee who questioned their origin/s was, "We're from everywhere".

Quite the Buddhist sounding that Alien

Aliens might be from different time zones like us humans too. Only more complicated than Eastern and western times. One might be 1000 years different than another for all we know. Just as humans can pick the place where they want to live, others out there or wherever, can pick the when maybe.

You are right, once you postulate time travel, then postulating time travelers from different time periods is not a great leap. In fact this could explain the differences in craft that are sighted. Some are from 1000 years in the future, 2000 years in the future etc. The different craft sighted are like new models of cars.

I worry about the day we find out aliens are us from a future, where we are capable of dimensional travel and interstellar travel. Then nearly everyone is right about origins. It's us, time traveling from a time when we left Earth by using other dimensional traveling abilities. Why do I worry? IF that turns out to be the case, then It won't answer the question of "Are we alone in the universe".

Let me try to put that fear to rest. On a clear dark night, one without a moon, find a place away from city lights. Look up to the milky way and see how many stars there are. Now consider that you are only able to perceive a very small percentage of the estimated 100 billion stars in our galaxy. Now consider that the estimates for the number of galaxies is well over 100 billion. So using our galaxy as basis -- the number of stars in the universe is 100 billion times 100 billion. Now tell me that in all that space, and all this time the dice haven't rolled the same number twice. We are almost certainly NOT alone.

 

[Poi]

I don't think we're alone either.

I've been through your mental exercise, Nikki, and I like it! In fact, I think what you had to say to me in your response was very positive. I've been on the positive side of the issue for a long time though and I guess it's time for me to look back at the repressed, grumbly, no-nonsense end of things.

Electromagnetic radiation, does cause damage on a cellular level. That's saying a lot in that it can affect the very essence of life in general, at least on earth. But it has to be sustained or greatly amplified to do that kind of damage. So my next question would be, would erratic bursts of EM cause us to trip our own brains' response mechanism? (Do we actually have a bit of magnet housed in our heads?). I do think that is worth study. Maybe someone has done that study and I'm just unaware. (Google, here I come.)

I didn't mean to really suggest that we always flip out, but that we might, in fact, flip "in." Or that maybe electromagnetics always plays a role in our experiences that seem outside the norm. I've heard that suggested so I'm trying to look at both sides of the issue because there are good arguments for either side, given the person who suggested it might be onto something. (Yech. There are only so many 'givens' I can handle.)

I'm just really wondering if there is something outside us that might steer us into occasionally seeing what is usually invisible or is not there at all. Both.

What if people who are diagnosed with severe mental disorders such as schizophrenia are more sensitive to EMR? Maybe they hear voices that are really "there" or maybe they don't. Maybe, if we can answer more questions about the effects of electromagnetism on humans, we'll understand more about it's effects, eventually, on the so called paranormal aspects of everyday life.