Your present stance

[BrandonD]

I bring this up because I can't remember hearing the hosts take any particular stance on the ufo subject. But my memory aint what it used to be, so I could be way off here.

At this point after speaking with so many people, what do the hosts consider as relatively "factual" regarding the ufo subject? What do they consider as "more likely" out of the prevailing theories, and what do they consider as "more unlikely"?

I would also like to hear the points of view of any thoughtful people on this forum regarding these same questions.

Here is my position:

I personally agree with the assertion of General Nathan Twining: "The UFO phenomenon being reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious". I think the simple reality of the ufo phenomenon can be considered as factual by a rational person who considers the available evidence.

Beyond this, I consider the specific nature of the phenomenon (interplanetary, time travellers, demons, etc) to be scattered along a gray scale.

From my point of view, the idea of the ufo phenomenon as something "negative" toward human beings seems more likely than the idea of it being "positive". But I think my argument might be more philosophical than evidence-based. If the ufos represented a benevolent force, much wiser and more powerful than we are, that have been watching over us and guiding our evolution, then I would expect historically to see our morality and humanity evolving at the same rate as our technology and weapons are. We seem to be technologically progressing at a ridiculous rate and remaining morally and culturally primitive. I live in the south among the baptists so I have direct personal experience of this.

But then again a few ufo encounters do seem legitimately positive.

This leads me to the idea that the the most likely scenario is something like the chicken-coop scenario I mentioned before. It goes something like this: We are the "property" of some sort of higher race, and are being farmed or exploited in some way. Therefore, most of the ufo experiences are negative.

However, in our world there are people who morally oppose the idea of keeping chickens in coops, and so perhaps there are beings out there who oppose what our "owners" are doing. Perhaps they are trying to assist us, but they are in the minority here because this planet is not their property, so to speak. Perhaps they have to "sneak in". This might account for the few encounters that seem legitimately positive.

Just theories, and by the way I'm not trying to push vegetarianism by using this chicken coop scenario. I happen to eat meat. This theory just seems to me to be the likely scenario after everything I've read.

I'd be interested in others' opinions also.

 

[CapnG]

I find myself incresingly devoid of "a stance". The whole UFO subject has become so very muddy over the past few years. Different species, different origins, different agendas, various prophecies and predictions, cults, government denial followed by government-sanctioned reports followed by yet further denials... It's getting to be a bit much.

Basically I have to entertain the idea that none of this is true and paradoxically assume that all of it could be true. I can't really go along with your chicken coop idea, but at the same time can't deny it's possible. Why? Because I don't know. You don't know. NOBODY KNOWS! Even the people who've seen UFOs and supposedly had contacts don't seem to know.

To quote Spike Milligan: "It's all rather confusing, really..."

 

[The Hawk]

I look at the credible information of which there is plenty and doesn't change just because time has passed.

IMO most UFOs can be easily labled into a indentified category by a educated third party. However some UFOs are alien spacecraft and/or interdimensional. The grays exist and are abducting people. Screen memories,
walking through walls, telepathic communication, alien-human hybrids are all a reality.

People like to convieniently throw away parts of gray contact but the large majority of credible cases contain A, B, C and eventually D.

 

[Tony2007]

I find myself incresingly devoid of "a stance". The whole UFO subject has become so very muddy over the past few years. Different species, different origins, different agendas, various prophecies and predictions, cults, government denial followed by government-sanctioned reports followed by yet further denials... It's getting to be a bit much.

Basically I have to entertain the idea that none of this is true and paradoxically assume that all of it could be true. I can't really go along with your chicken coop idea, but at the same time can't deny it's possible. Why? Because I don't know. You don't know. NOBODY KNOWS! Even the people who've seen UFOs and supposedly had contacts don't seem to know.

To quote Spike Milligan: "It's all rather confusing, really..."

I have to agree with much, if not pretty much all, of this. My gut feeling to all this has become increasingly, with the more I read and more I listen, to just search for them myself. There seem to be a few avenues and I'm trying them out. Other than that, no one can bring you closer to the phenomenon because no two people seem to experience exactly the same thing.

 

[BrandonD]

I find myself incresingly devoid of "a stance". The whole UFO subject has become so very muddy over the past few years. Different species, different origins, different agendas, various prophecies and predictions, cults, government denial followed by government-sanctioned reports followed by yet further denials... It's getting to be a bit much.

Basically I have to entertain the idea that none of this is true and paradoxically assume that all of it could be true. I can't really go along with your chicken coop idea, but at the same time can't deny it's possible. Why? Because I don't know. You don't know. NOBODY KNOWS! Even the people who've seen UFOs and supposedly had contacts don't seem to know.

To quote Spike Milligan: "It's all rather confusing, really..."

As I said, I consider the reality of the ufo phenomenon to be the only "fact" in the subject. The chicken coop theory is just playing around with ideas, I brought it up simply because it seems more likely than the popular "alien savior" theory.

If a person considers that the ufo phenomenon itself might be just nonsense, then playing with ideas might seem useless. But for a person who has either experienced or researched enough to be able to put this single point into the factual category, playing with ideas becomes something useful (or maybe just entertaining?)

Consider the ufo phenomenon as a horse race. No one knows who's going to win, what horse would you bet on at this point? Or, if they all seem unlikely, then put your own horse into the running... Using a little conceptual imagination is how Arthur C Clarke derived some of his revolutionary ideas, like the geosynchronous satellite.

Here's another theory of mine that I think is more conceivable than some of the prevailing "alien visitor" theories:

Consider the possibility that human beings did in fact have a somewhat advanced civilization somewhere in remote prehistory. Not necessarily with airplanes and skyscrapers - just a civilization with organization, social classes and and some technological advances. Perhaps primitive forms of electricity. Then imagine that a global cataclysm of some sort was approaching in their near future.

What would be the response if the educated classes were to become aware of this impending cataclysm? We can reasonably expect that this ancient civilization would have behaved exactly as this one has done. Meaning, this "upper" class of people would have taken steps to safeguard themselves from the destruction, largely disregarding the rest of the population. This safeguarding would most likely be via the same method as our present government - by building underground shelters.

Imagine that something globally destructive like an asteroid or climate shift did indeed happen, and civilization was largely destroyed. After only a few generations, the kids would have no idea what their previous civilization was like. Humanity would almost have to start over from scratch, just as we would if a huge global calamity struck us. How many of us can build a car, or even a toaster?

However, in these underground shelters, all technology and knowledge from the previous civilization could have been preserved by this upper class. They could actually continue progressing from the point of the previous civilization while the above-ground civilization "started over".

At that point there would essentially be two civilizations on the earth, each at different points in technological development.

Consider a hundred years later: People farming in crude huts on the surface suddenly see some sort of object floating by, gathering water from a lake. They are familiar with nothing like this, what could it be?

This underground civilization of people could, after a time, literally present themselves as gods to these above-ground dwellers.

Here are the pluses of this theory:

-It requires no alien beings, only human beings.

-It follows an existing model of culture and behavior.

-Accounts for the "exploitative" side of the ufo phenomenon.

-Accounts for the "underground" side of the ufo phenomenon.

-Accounts for the ufo interaction with some of the "upper eschelon" in our government and military.

...Another possibility is that I just have an overactive imagination, hehe.

 

[CapnG]

Your describing a variation of what Mac Tonnies and others have dubbed the "crypto-terrestrial" hypothesis (CTH). That's another thing about this field, everyone's thought of everything already but nobody's actually come up with a solid answer for ANYTHING yet.

 

[BrandonD]

Your describing a variation of what Mac Tonnies and others have dubbed the "crypto-terrestrial" hypothesis (CTH). That's another thing about this field, everyone's thought of everything already but nobody's actually come up with a solid answer for ANYTHING yet.

Damn, I thought I was being innovative I'll have to look into this Mac Tonnies fellow.

 

[CapnG]

He's done an episode of the Paracast (check the archives). Mac Tonnies isn't really being innovative either, subterrain civilizations aren't exactly a new concept. Mac's deal seems to be that it should actually be considered as a legitimate theory as opposed to the stuff of fantasy and I can't really argue.

 

[The Hawk]

YTMND - Alien Invasion

 

[hopeful skeptic]

In short, I guess I'd say that there are some very interesting UFO cases with hard, corroborating evidence. I don't know what UFOs actually are.

I don't see any hard evidence for abductions yet, and haven't seen one corroborating shred of evidence for a contactee's claims.

Devil Girl From Mars and Plan 9 From Outer Space are still my favorite UFO movies (save Overlords of the UFO, which should be required viewing for folks enrolled in critical thinking classes, just to let them know what they're up against).

 

[interestedINitall]

In short, I guess I'd say that there are some very interesting UFO cases with hard, corroborating evidence. I don't know what UFOs actually are.

I don't see any hard evidence for abductions yet, and haven't seen one corroborating shred of evidence for a contactee's claims.

Uh oh, you've opened "that can" again!

 

[Paul Kimball]

In short, I guess I'd say that there are some very interesting UFO cases with hard, corroborating evidence. I don't know what UFOs actually are.

I don't see any hard evidence for abductions yet, and haven't seen one corroborating shred of evidence for a contactee's claims.

That more or less sums up my own views.

Paul

 

[TheJCBand]

Outside of any so-called evidence, the likelihood of there being other planets in the galaxy with life is very high, and the likelihood of some of those planets having a headstart on us in evolution is high as well. So a highly advanced civilization visiting our planet for scientific study is a pretty solid explanation for the UFO phenomenon. Of course it's just a hypothesis that is yet to be proven. As far as what I consider factual, I'd have to say some people see things in the sky that they can't identify, and that's about it.