Zimbabwe '94 landing

[Stagger Lee]

Witnessed by many school children- What are your thoughts on this encounter? I recall reading a bit on this after it happened... never any great detail. Sighting- or was there actually reported contact?

 

[Muadib]

The way I remember it the school children reported a landed object and telepathic communication with one of the beings who was outside of the ship. The interesting part of it was that these children said the beings relayed some type of environmental message about us destroying our planet, which has been a feature of many a contactee/abductee story. How elementary school age children would be so well versed in the contactee culture as to generate a story like this that meshes with so many reports is something to make you wonder. There are a couple Youtube videos that show interviews with some of the children conducted by John Mack, I know they were posted in another thread on this subject but if anyone is interested I can find them and post them here as well. I've always wanted to hear more about this story but there just doesn't seem to be that much out there.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

It's hard to see how this landing could be a hoax. There were many witnesses and I agree Muadib, that the chances of 'schooling' these kids in a lie and have them stick to it under questioning by a qualified psychiatrist, are minute. This is one of the cases I cite as being extremely strong proof of the reality of the UFO subject. I'm not sure how the debunkers deal with a case like this, in fact I'd be very interested to hear the skeptical view - I agree that it sounds fantastic and of course I wasn't there so cannot vouch for anything, I just see it as very hard to fake?

 

[Muadib]

It's hard to see how this landing could be a hoax. There were many witnesses and I agree Muadib, that the chances of 'schooling' these kids in a lie and have them stick to it under questioning by a qualified psychiatrist, are minute. This is one of the cases I cite as being extremely strong proof of the reality of the UFO subject. I'm not sure how the debunkers deal with a case like this, in fact I'd be very interested to hear the skeptical view - I agree that it sounds fantastic and of course I wasn't there so cannot vouch for anything, I just see it as very hard to fake?

Yeah I'm with you and to tell the truth, I don't think I've ever heard a skeptical take on this particular case. I'm sure the angle would be to dismiss it as a hoax perpetrated by the teacher or the parents of one of the students or something like that. I find it very hard to believe that you could get a group of 7 year olds to recite the same story and stick to it for the rest of their lives. If there was deception, one of them would've admitted it by now, but I remember reading an article about this particular event where some of the children were interviewed in High School and they all maintain that it happened exactly like they said it did when they were children. If it was a lie you have to wonder what the motivation would be, they certainly never became famous and none of them wrote books or anything like that to my knowledge. You'd think if it was some kind of hoax, it would've come out by now.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Has anyone done a statement for statement comparison between the witnesses today and the witnesses as children? Have they comared them in cross reference between the witnesses? It always raises my eyebrow when someone says someone said anything exactly like they had previously.

I saw this years ago (when it happened), and I thought I remembered some variation between some of the stories. Maybe not.

 

[Stagger Lee]

62 school children total. The teachers were in a meeting at the time. Being a private school, a mix of children(black and white) where, at the time of the landing, alot of the younger black children were running and screaming "They're going to eat us" -thinking of a local legend involving a particular creature. Some of the adults inside, heard this and figured the kids just playing as they will. Some kids ran inside to tell a "lunch monitor" about it, she did not believe them and did not want to leave the money unattended. These are some of the details I've been able to locate. Apparently, John Mack reports that the parents and other adults were hesitant in believing the events- and he telling them that it was counterproductive to insinuate they were lying. The principle believes the kids version of events. I find it odd that a story like this could be buried, even 20 years later- or dismissed. Unless I'm missing something... "Utility work" on powerlines mistaken, blah, blah- but nothing even close to official explanation.

 

[Wade]

These may be irrelevant points (and almost impossible to follow up one) but I'd be interested in knowing if these kids were from a single classroom ( probably not) and if so, what the current curriculum was on. I mean that if environmentalism was being discussed at the time thus making the children receptive to this message whether it be mass hallucination or they were primed to have it embellished to them by something else.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I'd also be interested in hearing alot of those details. I thought I read that the kids ranged in age from 5 to 12 yrs old.
One witness claims- after watching the back and forth display up in the sky- the craft was seen moving along the power lines before landing. I wonder if investigators were able to rule out any military activity, or municipal maintance being done on the power grid.

 

[Jeff Davis]

A fascinating case to say the least. There are several youtube docuclips on the matter. Here are a few.

 

[Muadib]

A fascinating case to say the least. There are several youtube docuclips on the matter. Here are a few.

Thanks for posting these, the second one I've seen but the first one is new to me. It's 2 hours long so I'll have to wait until I have more time to check it out but, again, thanks.

 

[Muadib]

These may be irrelevant points (and almost impossible to follow up one) but I'd be interested in knowing if these kids were from a single classroom ( probably not) and if so, what the current curriculum was on. I mean that if environmentalism was being discussed at the time thus making the children receptive to this message whether it be mass hallucination or they were primed to have it embellished to them by something else.

That's actually a really good point Mulder, I didn't think of that. Maybe the documentary that Jeff posted will answer some of those questions. From what I've read about it, the children involved were of varying ages, so I don't think they were all from the same classroom but I could be wrong.

 

[Stagger Lee]

"primed to have it embellished to them by something else"
which asks the question- why them? I wonder if any particular child, now adult, is in a position to effect any type of environmental change. It does seem strange that similiar incidents wouldn't have occured, in other areas of the world- if a concerned intelligence really wanted to spread this message.

I'm not sure, putting on the display reportedly witnessed by U.N. figure(Perez?) had any effect, politically speaking, in environmental awareness contributing to policy changes (Brooklyn Bridge/Hopkins) Considering that was to be the core of the message behind those events that night. Perhaps "they" decided shocking an old politician into awareness didn't have the desired effects.

 

[Wade]

"primed to have it embellished to them by something else"
which asks the question- why them? I wonder if any particular child, now adult, is in a position to effect any type of environmental change. It does seem strange that similiar incidents wouldn't have occured, in other areas of the world- if a concerned intelligence really wanted to spread this message.

And that is a great point as well why do these contacts always seem to consist of non sequitars that are ambiguous at best regardless of the ages of the contactees involved. If said forces had our interests at heart...and by extension maybe their own...they wouldn't have to give us a fish, just teach us how to fish. It would be one thing to pull this crap on adults, children are another matter...Guys just come out and SAY what is on your minds. Please no mind games.

 

[Jeff Davis]

And that is a great point as well why do these contacts always seem to consist of non sequitars that are ambiguous at best regardless of the ages of the contactees involved. If said forces had our interests at heart...and by extension maybe their own...they wouldn't have to give us a fish, just teach us how to fish. It would be one thing to pull this crap on adults, children are another matter...Guys just come out and SAY what is on your minds. Please no mind games.

There is just "not a thing" in place, or that makes sense (at least in terms of what humans would call "common sense") with respect for the contact and abduction scenarios. I have as much or more interest in this aspect of Fortean events as I do any, and I certainly get where you are coming from here. It's frustrating, but in truth, my fascination overides the frustration. I think theyt call that addiction.

There is so much to consider and yet it all adds up to one big, WTF.

I would state that if any one aspect of that whole consideration fascinates most, it would have to be the one on one, or the one on a very few anyhow, "humanoid" contact scenarios.

The question in my mind becomes, are we dealing with one sentient chameleon like species or being, the trickster if you will, or are we truly as some have maintained more or less a Disneyland of the gods wherein the Earth is basically a big cosmic amusement park or science project for a myriad of alien species perusing the universe. The latter to me has always seemed, I don't know, a little Star Trek(ish), but who knows?

 

[Stagger Lee]

Star Trek(ish), yes. But in my opinion, probably the most obvious source- considering the many different reported craft and or occupants. Throw in some type of "Prime directive" and the silence from the other end, or the "not teaching us how to fish" also makes sense. A line from a song by the late J Garcia comes to mind "Man O Man O friend of mine, all good things in all good time"

 

[Burnt State]

The thing about the contactee movement is that it is a social movement riddled with messages of environmentalism, peace, not war etc. Collectively, contactees play a unique social role in that they are sometimes lone voices that work against other dominant, power driven and oppressive messaging and mechanisms of social control in society. Their time seems to have come and gone. Whitley Streiber is one of the last of the contactee prophets promoting peace and light.

If i remember correctly both the Zimbabwe and Westall Australian children's sighting have limited if any trace evidence. From what i also remember of both cases is that the adults have not recounted stories many years later. These are among some of the really interesting cases that require more consideration.

 

[mike]

In 1994, Dr John Mack and research associate Dominique Callimanopulos traveled to Zimbabwe to research one of the most extraordinary group sightings of a UFO in recent times. At the Ariel School in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, 60 children reported seeing a landed UFO during recess. In 2007, Dominique Callimanopulos and Randall Nickerson began production of an edited video program presenting John Mack’s interviews with the schoolchildren and faculty. The film became a consuming passion of Nickerson’s, and he spent 9 months in Africa to broaden the scope of the film far beyond our initial expectations, discovering new witnesses that corroborate the students’ accounts. He is now editing, after returning from a follow-up visit to Africa in 2009, and visits with the now-adult children in 2010.

Those children are now young adults scattered around the globe. Nickerson is tracking them down and interviewing them about the experience. “Their stories have not changed at all,” he says. “Not what you would expect if they had made it all up.”

Soon afterwards the children were asked to draw pictures of what they had seen. “They did this separately. The drawings were all the same.”

Tracking them down hasn’t been that difficult. “They are contacting us because of what we put up on the John E. Mack Institute website. What is interesting is that their stories remain the same as in 1994.

Nickerson’s first stop during his visit to southern Africa was Ariel School. “I interviewed teachers and workers who were there at the time.” He also came across people from two different schools in the area who had similar sightings on the same day.

Ariel Phenomenon: Encounter in Ruwa – The Ariel School UFO Sighting Documentary | John E. Mack Institute

 

[Tyger]

The thing about the contactee movement is that it is a social movement riddled with messages of environmentalism, peace, not war etc. Collectively, contactees play a unique social role in that they are sometimes lone voices that work against other dominant, power driven and oppressive messaging and mechanisms of social control in society. Their time seems to have come and gone. Whitley Streiber is one of the last of the contactee prophets promoting peace and light.

And as such are very similar to the "apparitions" of the 19th and early to mid 20th century, Lourdes (1858), Fatima (1916, 1917) and Medjugorje (1981)albeit in these cases the interpretations of the event were religious, tempered by the belief structures of the receiving children in their respective cultures. In the contactee stories the messages seem more 'secular' and the context 'accepted' as explanation more 'science-fiction-star-trekkie'.

There is just "not a thing" in place, or that makes sense (at least in terms of what humans would call "common sense") with respect for the contact and abduction scenarios. I have as much or more interest in this aspect of Fortean events as I do any, and I certainly get where you are coming from here. It's frustrating, but in truth, my fascination overides the frustration. I think they call that addiction.

There is so much to consider and yet it all adds up to one big, WTF.

Exactly so - and it's in this very "WTF" area that clues lie as to where an understanding to this 'phenomena' also lies imo. I am of the opinion that this is a subjective experience that has discoverable 'laws' but what or what images 'manifest' in that subjective realm are in some respects 'random', dependent on other 'laws'.

The question in my mind becomes, are we dealing with one sentient chameleon like species or being, the trickster if you will, or are we truly as some have maintained more or less a Disneyland of the gods wherein the Earth is basically a big cosmic amusement park or science project for a myriad of alien species perusing the universe. The latter to me has always seemed, I don't know, a little Star Trek(ish), but who knows?

Clarification lies in the very differences - that this is a subjective phenomenon. And imo - or what I lean towards - the origination of these images and experiences lies in understanding the 'structure' or make-up of the human being.

I would posit that it is the human being that is the 'lens' through which the universe - inward and outward - is being both observed and created.

The above is just my opinion - an emerging theory based on certain experience - offered in the spirit of informed discourse.