10,000yo Paintings Depicting Grey's? UFO? in Chhattisgarh

[Bob Watson]

to show the rods are not unique to the painting please look at this from the same era:

 

[Bob Watson]

one more to prove my point this is from a tapestry:

Now please tell me what is being shown in the tapestry? I know and will post the answer when I have a verity of answers!

 

[DissectionStalker]

one more to prove my point this is from a tapestry:

Now please tell me what is being shown in the tapestry? I know and will post the answer when I have a verity of answers!

Without cheating by just giving you my 1st impression, then I would guess a comet or "angel of light".

 

[Bob Watson]

You are correct! It is halley's comet

 

[DissectionStalker]

please look closely at the "antenna" you will note that the two are NOT attached to the Sphere ! the "antenna" is rods held by Jesus and the father.2 the sphere contains the image of the sun located at the 12 o'clock position and the moon at the 7 o'clock.. therefore the painting DOSE NOT SHOW A UFO!

Still, the artwork is VERY COOL for a UFO lover.

But what about that UFO in the cave art in France? And, seriously, just do what I asked to magnify those ET's in the inline pics I gave in the 1st post in this thread. Seriously, when you magnify those 400% or more, then you will see The Grey's. It IS still Mind Blowing -IF REAL.

It shows there is some kind of Historical Collective Consciousness that reaches us through the ages, a photographic memory, and we label these "The Greys" to fit our modern concepts.

BUT THESE IMAGES in our caveman and SyFy mind's eye is timeless!!!

THAT IS MIND BLOWING... Those 'shrooms! ???

 

[Burnt State]

Bananas and Burnt, I've read the attempts to 'debunk' the subject of ufos in medieval and Renaissance art and also attempts to 'debunk' ancient rock art depicting apparent 'astronauts', ets, and ufos. I haven't been persuaded to conclude that both categories are merely imagined traces of ufo and et visitation.

Personally, I don't understand how they could be traces of UFO or UFOnauts. While it's easy for us to read into these images as spacemen with space helmets on, in another time period we would say they resembled deep sea divers.

I don't see how you can read into this iconography without taking into consideration the artistic form, content, stylistic symbolic references etc. defined by a very specific time and place. While difficult to do for cave art we do have some history we can read about from the last 1000's of years to help us interpret the art 0f the time.

After all, how are we to interpret this relationship between Christianity and Ufology in these paintings? Does this artwork mean to reveal to us that Jehovah is actually an ancient alien, and his son was sent to earth as hybrid human, with powers far superior to Uri Geller? Is western religion actually organized around alien sponsored control systems and why isn't any of this good stuff in the bible, or is the bible trying to hide something from us - Ezekiel's wheels anyone?

This discussion is starting to explore how the power of mythology to organize our ideas is more profound than any government, system or law. I'm too sure whether or not that's cool, especially with the whole patriarchy thing, or if Chariots of the Gods should replace the Grade 11 world history textbook. But if we are going to call it all aliens, the cave paintings etc. it's just guesswork, and not to many steps away from devaluing our ancestors and their ability to develop & build: megalithic structures that doubled as sophisticated astronomical observatories, pyramids, decent math and engineering skills etc. on their own without the intervention of any god, alien or otherwise.

 

[Burnt State]

Algeria 6000 B.C.

Easily my favourite pseudo-alien depictions. Makes me think of Pascagoula for some reason.

 

[DissectionStalker]

After all, how are we to interpret this relationship between Christianity and Ufology in these paintings? Does this artwork mean to reveal to us that Jehovah is actually an ancient alien, and his son was sent to earth as hybrid human, with powers far superior to Uri Geller? Is western religion actually organized around alien sponsored control systems and why isn't any of this good stuff in the bible, or is the bible trying to hide something from us - Ezechiel's wheels anyone?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... you're toooo funny! Thanks.

[...]But if we are going to call it all aliens, the cave paintings etc. it's just guesswork, [...]

BUT, what is FASCINATING is THE IMAGE -FORGET the word ID or past, present, future "interpretations"!!! It's THE IMAGES that are remaining the same!!!

Sheeit, is that picture above for real??? Where from??? CREEPY.

Thanks.

 

[Burnt State]

Ancient Aliens In Australia
with apologies to previous Aussie posters who presented this previously on the forum.

The story goes like this – the Wandjina were “sky-beings” or “spirits from the clouds” who came down from the Milky Way during Dreamtime and created the Earth and all its inhabitants. Then Wandjina looked upon the inhabitants and realised the enormity of the task and returned home to bring more Wandjinas. With the aid of the Dreamtime snake, the Wandjina descended and spent their Dreamtime creating, teaching and being Gods to the Aboriginals whom they created. After some time, the Wandjinas disappeared. They descended into the earth and since then, have lived at the bottom of the water source associated with each of the paintings. There, they continually produce new ‘child-seeds’, which are regarded as the source of all human life. Some Wandjina also returned to the sky, and can now be seen at night as lights moving high above the earth.
Alien Art: Mysterious Aboriginal Rock Art | Puerto Rico UFOs

 

[Burnt State]

and why not just sensuous depictions of the human form in love or in a hunting dance?

 

[Bananas]

Bananas and Burnt, I've read the attempts to 'debunk' the subject of ufos in medieval and Renaissance art and also attempts to 'debunk' ancient rock art depicting apparent 'astronauts', ets, and ufos. I haven't been persuaded to conclude that both categories are merely imagined traces of ufo and et visitation.

Bananas, don't look at the 'headlines'; look at the images (I mean all the images available). By all means, think what you will and try not to be so supercilious in your judgments of what other people think.

Ugh, they're not imagined ufo visitations, they're actual visitations by spirit beings that people encounter while on high doses of psychoactive drugs. To clarify, I don't claim to know you actually meet any beings or if it's just all in your head, but the experience of meeting such beings is real regardless.

Do yourself a favour and google "beings encountered while on mushrooms".

Of course, you won't, because that's not the story you want to tell yourself.

 

[Constance]

Heh. I think it's at least as good as the story you want to tell yourself. Though we're all vulnerable to becoming theory-laden in our interpretations, the alien visitation theory is at least more interesting.

 

[Constance]

Burnt, re the appearances of possible ufos in religious paintings, I've considered the possibility that the artists of the time saw ufos in the sky and might have speculated that they originated in the same realm as the Star of Bethlehem, angels, fallen angels, and the like, coherent with the Scriptures in which they were well versed. Those artists could hardly have entertained the concept that Christ was an 'alien' from another planet; that's merely a more contemporary overlay on their interpretation.

 

[Bananas]

Heh. I think it's at least as good as the story you want to tell yourself. Though we're all vulnerable to becoming theory-laden in our interpretations, the alien visitation theory is at least more interesting.

So you're saying that pure fiction is a better theory than something that has anthropological evidence to support it? Also, I'm not telling a story to anyone, the facts are. You choosing to be ignorant is your choice, obviously, but don't spout horseshit like your fantasies are equal to actual evidence.

 

[Polterwurst]

Thanks for the vid. I was hoping to hear an art-historical explanation especially for the "UFO sighting" in this painting, which I've always found rather baffling:

The explanation given in the vid is that this depicts the angel appearing before the shepherds, telling them about the birth of the Christ. The motive has been used in many medieval paintings, but this one is a bit different in that there is no actual angel shown in or on the luminous cloud (and in other paintings there's often more than one shepherd and the scene takes place at nighttime).

Still, this detail seems to me very interesting in terms of UFOs and "orbs". I don't really remember the exact biblical text, but I don't think there is a real reason why the angel should be depicted as being inside or sitting on a luminous cloud that seems to hover overhead. All I remember from reading the bible when I was a kid, seem to be tall, impressive looking men (no wings) that walk around on the ground.

In "Wonders in the Sky", Jacques Vallee and Chris Aubeck present several historical sighting reports of luminous clouds, fiery orbs etc., seen from a distance, which sometimes are described as having faces or people inside, once such a luminous cloud allegedly morphed into a human-like figure (see posts in the "nocturnal lights / historical descriptions" thread here and here). In the historical context, these were obviously often interpreted religiously.

So, while I don't doubt that these historical artists were only following an old tradition that said "when painting the birth of Christ, you have to include the angel appearing before the shepherds in this and that way (and don't forget the dog)", it's still my speculation that "this and that way" might originally have been inspired by a report like those in "Wonders in the Sky" which was interpreted as a possible angel sighting or at least a "sign from heaven". Why not depict a miraculous event by using imagery from more contemporary "wondrous"sources?

Surely the video debunks "ancient aliens in historical art" but I don't think it ends all the justified questions.

 

[Burnt State]

Still, this detail seems to me very interesting in terms of UFOs and "orbs". I don't really remember the exact biblical text, but I don't think there is a real reason why the angel should be depicted as being inside or sitting on a luminous cloud that seems to hover overhead. All I remember from reading the bible when I was a kid, seem to be tall, impressive looking men (no wings) that walk around on the ground.
….
Surely the video debunks "ancient aliens in historical art" but I don't think it ends all the justified questions.

Well reasoned ideas in here, but i encourage you to look at the link i posted that the video derives its ideas from as it's a much more detailed critique of this painting. It also makes specific historical reference to various features of these paintings and why that's not a red UFO flying saucer, for example, in all those images but just a Cardinal's hat with strings that shows up in many a crucifixion and other medieval religious saucer paintings.

While the bible speaks mostly of angels in the clouds sending down their messages, declaring who Christ is, announcing pregnancies and what have you, it is the paintings of the medieval era that continue to respond to the canon and the paintings and iconography of relief sculptures, paintings etc. that came before them. The personification of the Sun and Moon observing Christ's crucifixion is just the way that you painted that specific image, because that's how everyone else did it. I would not try to connect written text 1000's of years older than the paintings that have their own specific cultural history. This link explore just how profuse the imagery of what appears to be people inside of spaceships throughout the medieval era but are really just trying to show that Christ was so important that all heavenly bodies take time to show their respect to the saviour nailed to the cross.

ART and UFO - Part 2

The idea that these images might spring from something witnessed by an individual painter would be a large stretch especially when we have these images and icons repeat over and over again: cardinal flyer saucer hats abound, as do personified heavenly bodies and strange spaceships, metallic angel clouds, satellites and discs. The sheer repetition of all these images do not point to UFO visitors but the manner in which artists represented these very specific religious ideas, so that yes, even to the lowly shepherd walking a dog, the angel of the lord will appear and make themselves manifest in a strange grey light storm cloud from heaven.

What's more interesting to note is how this type of religious ufo discussion stands parallel to Heaven's Gate talk about how the spaceship is inside Haley's Comet and it's coming to take the believers back home, after they have a little deadly drink & asphyxiate of course. I'm a little reluctant to post this image, dead body and all that, but note the specific approaches to iconography that they also engaged in, so powerful was it that their belief also concretized their alien gods for them. That's the power of belief. But then it was not too long ago that nuns would routinely take their vows at the ages of 9 or 12 years of age and dedicate their entire life to the cause.

 

[Bananas]

The Forgotten Mushrooms of Ancient Peru | Peter Trutmann - Academia.edu

There, educate yourselves folks.

 

[Polterwurst]

What's more interesting to note is how this type of religious ufo discussion stands parallel to Heaven's Gate talk about how the spaceship is inside Haley's Comet and it's coming to take the believers back home, after they have a little deadly drink & asphyxiate of course. I'm a little reluctant to post this image, dead body and all that, but note the specific approaches to iconography that they also engaged in, so powerful was it that their belief also concretized their alien gods for them. That's the power of belief. But then it was not too long ago that nuns would routinely take their vows at the ages of 9 or 12 years of age and dedicate their entire life to the cause.

Thanks, but actually I didn't need to be reminded of the dangers of mixing the spiritual with UFOs. I'm very aware of UFO cults, and when I was saying "we all know what the inter-dimensional belief can lead to" in this post following my Victor Goddard speculations, I was thinking of Heaven's Gate specifically.

I admit that I believe in the possibility of a non-material soul that can sometimes have effects on the physical world, but does that make me a kool-aid drinking fanatic who thinks there's a spaceship disguised as a comet coming to pick me up? I don't think so. A ball of ice and dirt in a lonely million-year orbit around the sun is about the least place I'd like to spend eternity on.

I might be more endangered than others to fall for some cultist charlatan who builds up a mythology around these things, because I've been thinking about spirituality and stuff. But actually, I regard myself as a skeptic. I don't take anything for granted or accept any stories of the paranormal, even if they seem convincing. But then again, I had my own experience which of course indicated strongly that there is more to claims of a spiritual reality than your logical mind would allow for.

Btw., I don't think UFOs in general have to be "spiritual" or "paranormal". I was only speculating about seemingly non-material ball-of-light (orb) phenomena, which are just a small part of the overall field. And of course, speculation is all it is, there's actually a great deal of evidence that BOLs (like those at Hessdalen) are indeed part of the more nuts-and-bolts UFO phenomena, maybe like probes or even energy beings (more speculation of course).

 

[Burnt State]

Thanks, but actually I didn't need to be reminded of the dangers of mixing the spiritual with UFOs. I'm very aware of UFO cults, and when I was saying "we all know what the inter-dimensional belief can lead to" in this post following my Victor Goddard speculations, I was thinking of Heaven's Gate specifically.

Polterwurst, ony the front end of the post with the link to the more detailed art history examination was a response back to you. I write tangentially, often. I was just continuing on the discussion regarding the manner in which belief systems and UFO's can merge into dangerous territory as you already know. For me it's always interesting to note the connections the paranormal and Ufological discussions have with the real world and their grievous consequences on occasion.

I'm glad that Heaven's Gate has not been forgotten by many, or the role that some ufologists played in propping up such malignant weirdness as Don Ecker pointed out in his anniversary article about them.

 

[Polterwurst]

OK, thanks for clearing that up. Actually,I'm glad for the opportunity to talk about that. I was getting worried people would take me for a UFO cultist with a "UFO are spirits and you all have to agree and follow me" agenda.