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9/11 Experiments: The Great Thermate Debate

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pixelsmith said:
Check out this short film, I found it very interesting, I wish they went into things a little deeper but they talk about enough to get people thinking.
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I think it is interesting that 2 of the biggest conspiracy theorists Cooper and Jones predicted 9/11..
 
pixelsmith said:
I think it is interesting that 2 of the biggest conspiracy theorists Cooper and Jones predicted 9/11..
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Oh c'mon, Jones didn't specifically predict 9/11 and you know it. He said something was going to happen and that the government would use it to implement martial law, grab everyone's guns and throw everyone in FEMA camps or some such nonsense. He was partially right, something did happen, but the rest of his "prediction" was extremely far off the mark. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He didn't say that the government would hijack planes, fly them into the WTC, blow them up with thermite (or whatever he believes these days) and then fire a missile at the Pentagon while the final plane crash landed in a field outside Pennsylvania or was blown up or whatever the current conspiracy du jour for this week happens to be. That would've been impressive, as it stands his prediction is about as impressive as something that Billy Meier would predict. How about all of the world wars, gun grabs and other effects that he predicted as a result of 9/11 that to this day, almost 12 years later, still haven't come to pass? If you throw enough shit at a wall, some of it is bound to stick.

I don't really know, or care what Cooper has to say about anything, including 9/11. I bet if I looked it up it would be a similarly innocuous, non specific statement about something happening.
 
This is a strange debate but contains key features of note. I've been round and back again re: 9-11 conspiracy thinking, read through the thread, seen the docs for and against and at the end of the day the one thing I find highly difficult to swallow is that the grandest conspiracy of the modern era apparently has no leaks, no conscience and appears to have the majority of its fires being stoked by he said/she said urban myth making.

The alleged molten steel in the basement, as in streams of lava cooking because of the grand chemistry plan, just does not have any proof or validity that I can find anywhere. Those that initially reported it have often reported later that they were just reporting what others told them, could not tell the difference between hot glowing steel and melting steel, or have some serious credibility issues.

Witnesses of the Pentagon plane were apparently hallucinating as the plane magically disappeared, via Philidelphia experimental technology, so the more far fetched and fanciful truther solution, such as the F16 that flew in remotely, or perhaps we have our own kamikaze pilots now, could prevail.

The buildings' collapses appear to be structural collapses and not detonations at all - it does not matter what language you spin it with as it's the spin that bothers me the most. It's very easy to revise history, to make strange connections, to say "follow the money" etc. but it's all really rhetoric at the end of the day without any real peer-reviewed science. In fact if you substitute UFO for 9-11 you seem to be reading the same story. We are asked to believe that enormous events in history are being hidden from the general population, even though 100's or 1000's would have to have interacted with the chains of evidence at all the various stages.

Muadib on page 3 of the thread outlines the most salient dichotomy and strikes at the heart of two debates at once. Witness testimony works for UFO's but not for 9-11 because what is most important is the belief in the conspiracy itself and not the truth. If we are to believe that the willingness to indiscriminately mass murder its own citizens on American soil exists then that makes America, at it's leadership core, far worse than Syria. Do people really believe that's true?
 
Muadib said:
Oh c'mon, Jones didn't specifically predict 9/11 and you know it. He said something was going to happen and that the government would use it to implement martial law, grab everyone's guns and throw everyone in FEMA camps or some such nonsense. He was partially right, something did happen, but the rest of his "prediction" was extremely far off the mark. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He didn't say that the government would hijack planes, fly them into the WTC, blow them up with thermite (or whatever he believes these days) and then fire a missile at the Pentagon while the final plane crash landed in a field outside Pennsylvania or was blown up or whatever the current conspiracy du jour for this week happens to be. That would've been impressive, as it stands his prediction is about as impressive as something that Billy Meier would predict. How about all of the world wars, gun grabs and other effects that he predicted as a result of 9/11 that to this day, almost 12 years later, still haven't come to pass? If you throw enough shit at a wall, some of it is bound to stick.

I don't really know, or care what Cooper has to say about anything, including 9/11. I bet if I looked it up it would be a similarly innocuous, non specific statement about something happening.
Click to expand...
you are not much of a "skep-dick" if you have not checked out exactly what they said, watch the short movie above and see videos of them saying what they said.
 
Burnt State said:
This is a strange debate but contains key features of note. I've been round and back again re: 9-11 conspiracy thinking, read through the thread, seen the docs for and against and at the end of the day the one thing I find highly difficult to swallow is that the grandest conspiracy of the modern era apparently has no leaks, no conscience and appears to have the majority of its fires being stoked by he said/she said urban myth making.

The alleged molten steel in the basement, as in streams of lava cooking because of the grand chemistry plan, just does not have any proof or validity that I can find anywhere. Those that initially reported it have often reported later that they were just reporting what others told them, could not tell the difference between hot glowing steel and melting steel, or have some serious credibility issues.

Witnesses of the Pentagon plane were apparently hallucinating as the plane magically disappeared, via Philidelphia experimental technology, so the more far fetched and fanciful truther solution, such as the F16 that flew in remotely, or perhaps we have our own kamikaze pilots now, could prevail.

The buildings' collapses appear to be structural collapses and not detonations at all - it does not matter what language you spin it with as it's the spin that bothers me the most. It's very easy to revise history, to make strange connections, to say "follow the money" etc. but it's all really rhetoric at the end of the day without any real peer-reviewed science. In fact if you substitute UFO for 9-11 you seem to be reading the same story. We are asked to believe that enormous events in history are being hidden from the general population, even though 100's or 1000's would have to have interacted with the chains of evidence at all the various stages.

Muadib on page 3 of the thread outlines the most salient dichotomy and strikes at the heart of two debates at once. Witness testimony works for UFO's but not for 9-11 because what is most important is the belief in the conspiracy itself and not the truth. If we are to believe that the willingness to indiscriminately mass murder its own citizens on American soil exists then that makes America, at it's leadership core, far worse than Syria. Do people really believe that's true?
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There is nothing alleged about molten metal. They photos and video if you bothered to look. Jet fuel or office fires are not hot enough to produce molten iron or steel.
The Pentagon is odd because there are conflicting reports of planes, no damage to the grass or trees and the dumb ass pilot flew around to the accounting side of the building instead of directly into it.
The buildings collapses were in fact due to detonations, they were designed to withstand impacts... and of course WTC7 was not hit by any plane at all.
9/11 did not happen as recorded in the 9/11 Commission Report.
 
I have yet to see a pic or video of anything that looks like dripping metal - glowing yes, but not actually melted. All reports of these in the media appear to be hearsay. It's not a question of how hot it was, a lower temp. fire will make metal glow.

When you detonate a building where does the collapse start - the bottom or the top?

WTC7 had its own fires that burned for quite one time even if you missed that from the dominant tv angle that did not show this fire in action.

I take it you remain a proponent of the mass murdering, worse than Syrian dictators, American Neo-Con, profit lusting psychopath theory then? That just doesn't make any sense at all. I think it was Pygar2 or Tyger (who have provided some of the most credible discussion here) that the real crime was pre and post 9-11. Leaders did take advantage and set the war machine, and the paranoia machine in motion.
 
pixelsmith said:
you are not much of a "skep-dick" if you have not checked out exactly what they said, watch the short movie above and see videos of them saying what they said.
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Pixel, I admire your tenacity, but we've already had this discussion, though you apparently don't remember. I'm not interested in watching videos about 9/11 conspiracy, I've watched plenty, hell I still own a few from my conspiracy believer days. I'm especially not going to watch a video that lists "questions" about 9/11, because the vast majority of those questions have sane logical answers that have nothing to do with some vast government conspiracy, the problem is that conspiracy believers don't want to accept any answers to those questions that don't reinforce their belief system. It's the same reason that I don't support the idea of some new 9/11 investigation, because whether an impartial investigation is conducted or not, if the investigation fails to reinforce the conspiracy viewpoint it will be immediately dismissed by 99.9% of conspiracy theorists, because they already know the truth and are so arrogant about it that they can't even admit to themselves that there's a chance that they might be wrong. I don't have that problem, I could be wrong but as of yet I've seen nothing convincing to lead me to that conclusion. Almost 12 years and not one member of this giant conspiracy has had a change of heart or an attack of conscience? Not one whistleblower? Really? It's horseshit, pure and simple.

Now, to your main point, I've seen the clip of Alex Jones' show pre-9/11 and if he's saying anything specific about the details of 9/11 in the video above, it's not from his pre-9/11 show, what he said was that something was going to happen and that the government would use it as a pretext to take everyone's guns and declare martial law, we all know that didn't happen and I'm sorry but saying "something is going to happen" isn't impressive, you can say that any day of the week and chances are you'll be right. I know you listen to his show so you know that he says that at least once a day, he happened to be partially right this time, whoop de fucking doo. Part of the problem when you get the vast majority of your information from conspiracy theorists on Youtube is that they either don't play fair and make things up to support their position or they simply do bad research and get dates confused. This was never more evident than during the whole Sandy Hook debacle, I remember watching videos on Youtube talking about the conspiracy and the fact that Facebook pages were set up before the shootings and that this was proof of a conspiracy. What these geniuses failed to realize is that the creation date of a Facebook page can be set to anything you damn well please, Snopes.com, for example, had a Facebook page with a creation date of 1993, I don't need to tell you that there was no Facebook in 1993. This is the kind of crap that passes for evidence in conspiracy circles and it's one of the reasons why I'm just not interested in Youtube conspiracy videos.
 
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Burnt State said:
I have yet to see a pic or video of anything that looks like dripping metal - glowing yes, but not actually melted. All reports of these in the media appear to be hearsay. It's not a question of how hot it was, a lower temp. fire will make metal glow.

When you detonate a building where does the collapse start - the bottom or the top?

WTC7 had its own fires that burned for quite one time even if you missed that from the dominant tv angle that did not show this fire in action.

I take it you remain a proponent of the mass murdering, worse than Syrian dictators, American Neo-Con, profit lusting psychopath theory then? That just doesn't make any sense at all. I think it was Pygar2 or Tyger (who have provided some of the most credible discussion here) that the real crime was pre and post 9-11. Leaders did take advantage and set the war machine, and the paranoia machine in motion.
Click to expand...
your comments tell us you know very little about what you are talking about. period.
 
Ok:
1: if contolled domlition was used who placed them? What agency?
2:when were they placed?
3:why is there no witnesses to the placement?
4:why with one exeption there was no power downs of the towers?
5:kepping in mind the towers never closed why did no one report anyone doing unusal work in 3 bulding?
My questions that NEED answers...
 
1. if we knew that they would be arrested
2. in the months leading up to the demolition
3. there were numerous reports of strange activity on closed floors
4. how many power downs would you expect?
5. keep in mind many floors were closed at different times and there was extensive rewiring of the building.
6. interesting info no one seems to know about here: PREPARING THE WTC FOR DESTRUCTION - Conspiracy Cafe
 
pixelsmith said:
your comments tell us you know very little about what you are talking about. period.
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And that of course, is the voice of the conspiracist talking, telling us all we are ignorant of the truth that has been repeated over and over again. No answers are needed for the conspiracist - one must only point to other videos etc. as gospel. Did you ever consider that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are allowing someone else to think for you?

If you think that this video was convincing you're entirely wrong. I see some glowing metal, and I also see something on fire pouring out of the building, and I also see a lot of people claiming science relying on what they know, and not the full extent of the science involved. Just like in the field of UFO's, a lot of grand claims get made, are repeated and then promoted to truth. That's how urban myths are formed and you are guilty of spreading a really despicable lie - and you remain a pro-ponent of factions within the American Gov't (United We Stand) are guilty of indiscriminate mass-murder on the most heinous of levels, to make all other outlandish and ghoulish crimes against humanity pale in comparison because of the sheer audacity of the crime. I'll ask again - is that what you really believe? What money is there to follow here, really?

Please consider two things: the scientists at the heart of the 9-11 truthers are also suffering from confirmation bias, putting their cart before the horse, relying on what the textbook says and that a lot of what has been repeated as "witness testimony" is hearsay without proof. Please take just a little bit of time to read through this deconstruction of the molten steel mythology.

http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html

BTW this link also looks like it knows more about the discussion than you: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - Molten
Steel

Finally, there is no textbook that has been written regarding what happens when you crash jets into WT buildings. It is a rare and freakish thing, and we should be open-minded enough to consider that what we used to know about certain controlled situations might not hold in 9-11, as we really have nothing to compare it with. As vesvehighfolk points out, you are asking people to side with conspiracist thinking and that means a lot of nasty explanations about pre-mediataed mass murder. If you can really stomach and stretch to believe that this mass murder was so well methodically carried out and leak free then you also have to believe that the whole thing was carried out by a team of gov't engineered human robots, as apparently all the many people involved in this crime against humanity did it all without a conscience and invisibly as well. Maybe they got the technology from the aliens? But then if they had that technology why carry out a wacko plan of terrifyingly exponential proportions that would plunge the world into chaos when you can just make gold from lead? I mean.... oh nevermind, you can't change the mind of a conspiracist.
 
Burnt State said:
I mean.... oh nevermind, you can't change the mind of a conspiracist.
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Bingo. The problem is the same as when you argue with any fanatic, if 9/11 (or global warming, or whatever) wasn't a conspiracy, then the entire house of cards he has built his world view around comes tumbling down around him. It's much easier to spout nonsense, denials and smart ass remarks about "9/11 liars" than it is to have to completely reevaluate what you believe. You might as well be arguing with a Flat Earth Society member or a young Earth creationist at this point...

And for the record, 9/11 "truthers" are called "truthers" because they are convinced that they are somehow in possession of the one and only truth about 9/11, the rest of us non fanatics freely admit that there are unanswered questions about 9/11, but we also like to point out that all of this so called evidence conspiracy believers like to toss around isn't nearly as compelling or reliable as they think it is and that they haven't even come close to proving that there was a conspiracy. If that makes me a "9/11 liar" (derp!) so be it. For some conspiracy theorists, the whole thing is basically a religion at this point, "Our conspiracies, which art self evident, hallowed be thy name..."
 
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Muadib said:
Bingo. The problem is the same as when you argue with any fanatic, if 9/11 (or global warming) wasn't a conspiracy, then the entire house of cards he has built his world view around comes tumbling down around him. It's much easier to spout nonsense, denials and smart ass remarks about "9/11 liars" than it is to have to completely reevaluate what you believe. You might as well be arguing with a Flat Earth Society member or a young Earth creationist at this point...

And for the record, 9/11 "truthers" are called "truthers" because they are convinced that they are somehow in possession of the one and only truth about 9/11, the rest of us non fanatics freely admit that there are unanswered questions about 9/11, but we also like to point out that all of this so called evidence conspiracy believers like to toss around isn't nearly as compelling or reliable as they think it is and that they haven't even come close to proving that there was a conspiracy. If that makes me a "9/11 liar" (derp!) so be it. For some conspiracy theorists, the whole thing is basically a religion at this point, "Our conspiracies, which art self evident, hallowed be thy name..."
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I DID reevaluate and changed my mind as to what I believe. I was firmly on your side on the 9/11 and global warming topics until I researched a little bit. To you "liars" it is a basically a religion now especially with global warming.
 
pixelsmith said:
I DID reevaluate and changed my mind as to what I believe. I was firmly on your side on the 9/11 and global warming topics until I researched a little bit. To you "liars" it is a basically a religion now especially with global warming.
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I can easily prove that it isn't a religion for me, ready? I fully admit to the possibility that I may be wrong, both about AGW and 9/11, there's always the chance, however miniscule, that I have it wrong. I'll be more than happy to change my opinion on both subjects as soon as you can show me some unbiased, verifiable, peer reviewed scientific evidence that my position is incorrect, which you failed to do in the global warming thread and you've utterly failed to present anything compelling in this thread as well. Now, can you do the same? Can you admit the possibility that you might be wrong? I've asked you this before and you refuse to acknowledge the possibility, has that changed? If so, then maybe you aren't the fanatic that I think you are, but I have a feeling you'll dance around the question rather than say "I could be wrong," or you'll just say it so you can "win" the argument and not really mean it.

As for your research, it didn't impress me when it came to global warming and it doesn't impress me when it comes to 9/11, your idea of research is parroting what you hear from Alex Jones or Youtube conspiracy vids. I've seen your post history and at least since you've been a member of this site, you've been a conspiracy theorist, so I'm sorry if I find your assertion that your opinion has changed to be a tad bit disingenuous.
 
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1. I freely admit global warming is real. Just like global cooling and ice ages... all very real.
2. I freely admit I may be wrong about 9/11. I have stated many times over the years that I do not expect nor want anyone to believe a word I say. I HOPE you question what I say and do your own research.
3. I freely admit I have been wrong about many things in life.
4. I freely admit when I am wrong and have done so in these forums more than once.
5. I am very proud to be a conspiracy theorist because in the long run we are usually right.
 
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