Abduction anatomy

[The Starman]

I’ve had at least 4 or 5 ‘visitation’ experiences that I recall.

When i was around 5 years old I was “visited”by goblins,taken from my bed and levitated through the skylight at the top of our house.

Floated out of my bed and through the walls in blue light.

Let's talk hypothetically

IF you were abducted, why they (goblins,aliens or other creatures) left some memories for you ? why they did not "erase" everything ?

 

[loki467]

Let's talk hypothetically

IF you were abducted, why they (goblins,aliens or other creatures) left some memories for you ? why they did not "erase" everything ?

Because they don't erase anything [emoji53] psychologically it's ones own mind blocking out a traumatic experience

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[Randall]

Because they don't erase anything [emoji53] psychologically it's ones own mind blocking out a traumatic experience.

We got into that to some extent on this week's show with Nigel Watson who I think would tend to agree, and took it step further, acknowledging the possibility that the alien abduction experience itself could be a fabrication of the mind induced by something called a fugue state ( Reference ), which may sound far fetched at first, but actually seems to make a lot of sense, especially in a case like the Travis Walton experience.

 

[loki467]

We got into that to some extent on this week's show with Nigel Watson who I think would tend to agree, and took it step further, acknowledging the possibility that the alien abduction experience itself could be a fabrication of the mind induced by something called a fugue state ( Reference ), which may sound far fetched at first, but actually seems to make a lot of sense, especially in a case like the Travis Walton experience.

I can't wait to hear it, it sounds like a good theory and I'm always open to hearing good theory about abductions

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[loki467]

We got into that to some extent on this week's show with Nigel Watson who I think would tend to agree, and took it step further, acknowledging the possibility that the alien abduction experience itself could be a fabrication of the mind induced by something called a fugue state ( Reference ), which may sound far fetched at first, but actually seems to make a lot of sense, especially in a case like the Travis Walton experience.

Although I may disagree with the abductions being fabrications due to that state, I say this because when I was reading in that link it says people don't generally remember what happened during said state and from what I gather is almost like blacking out, while abductions are a bit different people can recall alot even without hypnosis. What do you think?

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[Randall]

Although I may disagree with the abductions being fabrications due to that state, I say this because when I was reading in that link it says people don't generally teacher what happened during said state and from what I gather is almost like blacking out, while abductions are a bit different people can recall alot even without hypnosis. What do you think?

I have exactly the same concerns, but apparently there are degrees of amnesia, and then there's the question of which part of the memory was actually real? A dream for example can seem entirely real, and we can remember some of those quite clearly, so if we're affected so as not to be able to tell the difference, then without some independent third party verification, perhaps the part that is assumed to be consciously remembered is in fact part of the fugue state. It's a complex theory, but seems at least as plausible as aliens actually abducting people.

 

[loki467]

I have exactly the same concerns, but apparently there are degrees of amnesia, and then there's the question of which part of the memory was actually real? A dream for example can seem entirely real, and we can remember some of those quite clearly, so if we're affected so as not to be able to tell the difference, then without some independent third party verification, perhaps the part that is assumed to be consciously remembered is in fact part of the fugue state. It's a complex theory, but seems at least as plausible as aliens actually abducting people.

You make some very interesting points, I think more research should be conducted, but I like this theory and this may be able to explain quite a bit, again I may not be 100 percent on it but as far as theory go that's a pretty good one

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[marduk]

Let's talk hypothetically

IF you were abducted, why they (goblins,aliens or other creatures) left some memories for you ? why they did not "erase" everything ?

How would I know?

They didn't tell me anything. Don't ask me to construct a narrative where none exists.

 

[marduk]

We got into that to some extent on this week's show with Nigel Watson who I think would tend to agree, and took it step further, acknowledging the possibility that the alien abduction experience itself could be a fabrication of the mind induced by something called a fugue state ( Reference ), which may sound far fetched at first, but actually seems to make a lot of sense, especially in a case like the Travis Walton experience.

The problem with fugue states as a hypothesis is that they aren't shared and don't cause funny scars.

They also aren't associated with hallucinations that I'm aware of, especially ones that seem to have a common theme.

Have you read Mike Clelland's stuff? Pretty interesting. Some of the stuff in Messengers is probably the closest to my experiences.

 

[Randall]

The problem with fugue states as a hypothesis is that they aren't shared and don't cause funny scars. They also aren't associated with hallucinations that I'm aware of, especially ones that seem to have a common theme. Have you read Mike Clelland's stuff? Pretty interesting. Some of the stuff in Messengers is probably the closest to my experiences.

Thanks for the reply. I would tend to agree that a fugue state normally wouldn't be shared, but then again if there's any validity to Persinger's hypothesis regarding induction by naturally occurring EM fields emanating form the Earth, then hypothetically more than one person could be simultaneously affected, and their experiences could be very similar. With the issue of scars, that wouldn't be out of the ordinary in cases where the fugue state was brought on by a traumatic experience such as some form of injury. So I guess it depends on the circumstances, but there are a lot of possible combinations, so the theory deserves to be taken seriously.

 

[marduk]

Thanks for the reply. I would tend to agree that a fugue state normally wouldn't be shared, but then again if there's any validity to Persinger's hypothesis regarding induction by naturally occurring EM fields emanating form the Earth, then hypothetically more than one person could be simultaneously affected, and their experiences could be very similar. With the issue of scars, that wouldn't be out of the ordinary in cases where the fugue state was brought on by a traumatic experience such as some form of injury. So I guess it depends on the circumstances, but there are a lot of possible combinations, so the theory deserves to be taken seriously.

I think it could help explain parts of some experiences, but as a 'grand unified field theory for abductions' (if that's what it's being presented as) I think it falls short.
Really all it talks about is losing memory and getting upset about it. Which I guess is two aspects of the standard narrative, but there seems to be a lot more.
Maybe I'm the wrong guy to comment on it though, I don't really seem to fit the Strieber/Mack/Hopkins stuff.

 

[Randall]

I think it could help explain parts of some experiences, but as a 'grand unified field theory for abductions' (if that's what it's being presented as) I think it falls short.
Really all it talks about is losing memory and getting upset about it. Which I guess is two aspects of the standard narrative, but there seems to be a lot more.
Maybe I'm the wrong guy to comment on it though, I don't really seem to fit the Strieber/Mack/Hopkins stuff.

That's all perfectly fair, and I have a natural aversion to painting everything with the same brush anyway.

 

[loki467]

I have listened to alot of Mike Clelland's podcast, I tend to agree with you both it is a good theory but it has it's flaws, it's explains some things mainly missing time, but not as you stated scars and a couple other things, I just listened to the podcast and tackling the chicken or the egg process of 'pop culture vs ufos what came first' problem is a little big to take on and say pop culture is why we see what we do. Although I don't recall him saying that as a fact. Again I like the theory though that's what I call a good psychological hypothesis. But I still argue that people can still tell the difference between a dream or hallucination and an actual event, as my essay about ufological dreams states. On the point of hypnosis or hypnotic regression in a video interview on YouTube Budd Hopkins speaks about his use of hypnosis "budd hopkins on skeptics argument against the use of hypnosis"

stating "hypnosis is used to flush things out, everybody remembers pieces of the experience at the minimum, but I have numerous cases of people remembering the whole thing from the being to the end without hypnosis, this is not heavy evidence of anything *referring to hypnosis* but this was for him to ventilate some experiences he was having".

What I take from this is he is using hypnosis in a theropudic way but also to in a way color what has already been said or claimed by an abductee and make a more broad picture of what was recalled. I don't know that I agree with the hypnosis but I do think it's interesting, for example if a person is abducted and has a scoop mark or scar that has been resent like a couple days or weeks old and they recall an abduction experience and while under hypnosis they find that they do in fact remember an entity making this scar with no other way it could have gotten there it's kinda coloring in an experience already believed to have happened if that makes sense. If need be I can probly make a better example if that didn't make sense just let me know. I may attempt to contact Mr Watson on his research and ask him some questions.

 

[loki467]

Marduk I'd be very interested in hearing your experiences if you'd like to share with open minded people

 

[marduk]

I have listened to alot of Mike Clelland's podcast, I tend to agree with you both it is a good theory but it has it's flaws, it's explains some things mainly missing time, but not as you stated scars and a couple other things, I just listened to the podcast and tackling the chicken or the egg process of 'pop culture vs ufos what came first' problem is a little big to take on and say pop culture is why we see what we do. Although I don't recall him saying that as a fact. Again I like the theory though that's what I call a good psychological hypothesis. But I still argue that people can still tell the difference between a dream or hallucination and an actual event, as my essay about ufological dreams states. On the point of hypnosis or hypnotic regression in a video interview on YouTube Budd Hopkins speaks about his use of hypnosis "budd hopkins on skeptics argument against the use of hypnosis"

I don't know that Mike has ever put forward a hypothesis that he's asserting, only asking interesting questions - about owls specifically.

stating "hypnosis is used to flush things out, everybody remembers pieces of the experience at the minimum, but I have numerous cases of people remembering the whole thing from the being to the end without hypnosis, this is not heavy evidence of anything *referring to hypnosis* but this was for him to ventilate some experiences he was having".

I think everything 'recovered' via hypnosis needs to be discarded. Not because it's all bunk necessarily, but because it's problematic enough just to cloud the waters and not lead to insight.

What I take from this is he is using hypnosis in a theropudic way but also to in a way color what has already been said or claimed by an abductee and make a more broad picture of what was recalled. I don't know that I agree with the hypnosis but I do think it's interesting, for example if a person is abducted and has a scoop mark or scar that has been resent like a couple days or weeks old and they recall an abduction experience and while under hypnosis they find that they do in fact remember an entity making this scar with no other way it could have gotten there it's kinda coloring in an experience already believed to have happened if that makes sense. If need be I can probly make a better example if that didn't make sense just let me know. I may attempt to contact Mr Watson on his research and ask him some questions.

I wonder how much of this is narrative that we've constructed - whether you go down the 'co-creation hypothesis' or 'nothing makes sense to me so I'll invent a narrative' is yet to be determined.

 

[marduk]

Marduk I'd be very interested in hearing your experiences if you'd like to share with open minded people

Many of them are posted on these forums.

But in a nutshell my experiences have never included any conscious recollection of communication or any messages whatsoever. Just a weird event or memory with no follow up.

I've never had any 'save the planet' messages, star maps, or a telepathic message whatsoever.

 

[loki467]

I don't know that Mike has ever put forward a hypothesis that he's asserting, only asking interesting questions - about owls specifically.


I think everything 'recovered' via hypnosis needs to be discarded. Not because it's all bunk necessarily, but because it's problematic enough just to cloud the waters and not lead to insight.


I wonder how much of this is narrative that we've constructed - whether you go down the 'co-creation hypothesis' or 'nothing makes sense to me so I'll invent a narrative' is yet to be determined.

Perhaps I miscomunicated what I was attempting to convey, I was reffering to Mr Watson in reference to pop culture, I'll have to look at what some of your stories are so thank you.

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[loki467]

Many of them are posted on these forums.

But in a nutshell my experiences have never included any conscious recollection of communication or any messages whatsoever. Just a weird event or memory with no follow up.

I've never had any 'save the planet' messages, star maps, or a telepathic message whatsoever.

You make some very good points

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