Alien hybrids = Nephilim

[Ezechiel]

Does anyone really buy into the "hybridization program"? Does it make sense to anyone?

Can you be more specific ? are you talking about the production of a 'middle-breed' or a long-term genetic transformation/manipulation of humans ?

Unless someone has the intent down pat... I'm not sure there is anything to buy yet lol.

I personally would go with the long-term genetic transformation possibility (earth is a farm) in a galactic context where a type 3 civilization dominates (Michio Kaku) and imposes its genetic standard on the galactic sentient community

... I don't see any use for a 'Hybridization program' unless the idea is a relatively short-term invasion. Or maybe... it could be used to measure the compatibility/genetic manipulation progress between the dominant type 3 and humans ?

 

[King Cheetah]

I think the alien abduction/hybridization business is just more noise created by the phenomena with help from human beings. Is it noise to mask something else or is it the human side of things trying to make sense of something unintelligibly alien and coming up with nonsense and illusions?

Thant's pretty much been my take on this, lumped in with SERPO and the Dulce Papers. Even when you go back and listen to the testimony of abductees on hybrids, their stories are similar-ish, but hardly all on the same page. Additionally, to buy into the Hybridization idea, you have to set aside A LOT of the other abductee/contactee testimony that doesn't fit.

 

[Keiko]

1. Could beings from another world/reality/dimension/whathaveyou be in any way compatible to a human being genetically?
2. What motivation could there be for such an elaborate, expensive, and protracted program? None of the suggested motivations really hold water in my opinion.
3. Are "we are hybrids" just another misdirection like "we are from Venus" or "we are from Zeta-Reticula"?

1. I don't see why not - especially if one or more of these races had some input in our evolution.
2. An unusually diverse planet? Some form of galactic colonisation/conquest?
3. I think this is a very interesting point. It's hard to see where these Venusians/Nordics or lore fit into the picture. They don't usually sound similar to hybrids/humans working with greys as reported by abductees. Some of these encounters could possibly have been set-ups by MI but it is difficult to imagine. Same goes for the MIB - there really are accounts with genuine 'high strangeness' involving these guys.

Travis Walton is an interesting case. He saw small beings like greys but not quite and again these physically perfect human types. But as long as these beings remain so covert in their interactions with us then all we can do is speculate, but it is wise to question anything they tell people directly. Sometimes it seems they just say what they think the person wants to hear or can deal with mentally and 'truth' doesn't matter too much one way or the other.

 

[trainedobserver]

2. What motivation could there be for such an elaborate, expensive, and protracted program? None of the suggested motivations really hold water in my opinion.

2. An unusually diverse planet? Some form of galactic colonisation/conquest?

I meant, why hybridization at all? Why not some other method. Certainly there would seem to be half a dozen strategies you could employ given the level of technology involved so why genetic engineering (if indeed such a thing could be accomplished)? Amongst all the messy biological problems what guarantees that the resulting creatures would be sympathetic to their creators wishes? Robots, androids, mind-controlled natives, false-messiahs, V-like deception programs, etc., etc. could pull off galactic colonization and conquest just as well.

 

[Keiko]

I meant, why hybridization at all? Why not some other method. Certainly there would seem to be half a dozen strategies you could employ given the level of technology involved so why genetic engineering (if indeed such a thing could be accomplished)? Amongst all the messy biological problems what guarantees that the resulting creatures would be sympathetic to their creators wishes? Robots, androids, mind-controlled natives, false-messiahs, V-like deception programs, etc., etc. could pull off galactic colonization and conquest just as well.

Good points - I wish I knew the answers! I can accept that a civilisation more techically advanced than ours can manipulate genes perhaps even to a level beyond our imaginations right now. I was listening to a scientist the other day on TV (sorry but the name eludes me) and he spoke of a gene which he believed could be responsible for 'religion'. This was not verified but he thought it had real potential and this guy is a top British geneticist. That's more than a bit mind blowing. It may turn out that many of our assumptions about ourselves and our consciousness will be completely smashed with future scientific discoveries.

I think maybe our DNA is suited to this planet and environment, and a long term approach to living here may involve incorporating that DNA into themselves or their progeny. They may even have been tinkering with our DNA for some time. It could be some species homogenisation (think Monsanto!) as opposed to nature's cornucopia.

So perhaps they think they can create creatures sympathetic to themselves. Ultimately their goal may be to alter us too. If they can end war and famine etc is that worth exchanging free will for? It all raises some interesting moral and (what was John Mack's favourite word? oh yeah...) 'ontological' questions.

 

[ArchieBedford]

I meant, why hybridization at all? Why not some other method. Certainly there would seem to be half a dozen strategies you could employ given the level of technology involved so why genetic engineering (if indeed such a thing could be accomplished)? Amongst all the messy biological problems what guarantees that the resulting creatures would be sympathetic to their creators wishes? Robots, androids, mind-controlled natives, false-messiahs, V-like deception programs, etc., etc. could pull off galactic colonization and conquest just as well.

Why indeed? This whole phenomenon, if approached through our current paradigms and understandings, makes no sense to most of us. But the data are what they are: incomplete, not category one evidence, but it all amounts to something and beyond groundless speculation or idiot-level incredulity, it's all we have.

For example, since the earliest abduction/encounter testimonies in modern times (Villas Boas, the Hill case, the Allagash case and scores of others) male abductees report their abductors taking sperm samples by a variety of methods including tubes, machines and occasionally sexual-type encounters. This always seemed bizarre and improbable, but the accounts are consistent and widespread. The abductees are almost invariably uncomfortable with the experience, derive no pleasure from it, find it intrusive, embarassing and humiliating and are unwilling to report this kind of violation. Barney Hill even insisted his memories this aspect (and he had physical marks in the affected area for weeks afterwards) be kept out of Fuller's book, so it didn't emerge into the public domain for more than two decades after the Hills' White Mountain abduction.

Now, abductees report the abductors taking sperm samples time after time, virtually every abduction. Why? No-one knows. It makes no sense: why don't they just take one sample and freeze it? They'd have millions of sperm for their purposes, whatever they might be. But the repeated sampling happens: it's reported so widely and over such a long period of time, by so many, that we just have to give credence to the data, however improbable it seems to the small-minded "But aliens wouldn't do that, they'd do this instead" mentality. There must be a reason we don't yet understand why they keep repeating the sampling process. One day we may indeed understand the reason and it might make absolute sense, so we should work with the data and not from closed-minded incredulity of the Shostak variety.

So rather than insist "they shouldn't be doing that, they should be doing this" to work with the existing data is the only way to proceed and get to the truth of what might be going on. Multiple reports of taking samples of sperm/ova over a long period of time by thousands of people decade after decade is certainly compatible with some kind of genetic breeding or modification program, whether you call the result hybrids, or transgenics, or modified humans, or "nephilim". Part-human or non-human biological entities do seem to crop up quite a lot in the literature and sacred texts of the world's religions - Egypt, India, Gilgamesh, the Old Testament, pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas. They are described everywhere.

I bet this is no accident; that there is some relationship between abduction accounts since the beginning of the last century and these "mythical" part-human or super-human entities, including their legendary breeding interactions with humans.

Explore and discuss.

 

[brownie]

The alien hybrids as Nephelim is a religiously loaded idea. Though I believe there are other orders of beings that may or may not be et , I don't believe in a singular big, bad Satan. Most biblical scholars agree that Genesis is sort of a swiss-cheese tale that's missing some important parts. That said, when I read extra-biblical Ghostic texts alot of that material made sense -- matter was sin (the material world vs. the ethereal world)... Archons (angels?) fell 'down' into matter... There was a choice to leave the etheric presence of a god and incarnate into material world.

Ghostic writings tie into two mind-blowing books on ufos/aliens/abductions/souls/death/reincaration by Nigel Kerner -- 'Song of the Greys' and 'Grey Aliens and the Harvesting of Souls'. Kerner's hypothesis is that the grey beings are robotlike clones that were created many thousands of years ago by etheric beings that are long gone and they're (the greys) seeking a way out of the material world. The only way is to have a soul and then die - either reincarnating or go on in the etheric realm to be with the "godverse" forever and be free of matter. It's much more complex than what I state but both books are worth reading for their very unusual hypothesis. Kerner believes there has been genetic manipulation of humans (particularly caucasian and asian) for thousands of years. He believes the 'purist' humans are black-Africans and that they rarely are abducted (not so sure about that though!). Interestingly Kerner relies alot on David Jacobs two books on abductions- particularly the close up eye to eye scanning (Kerner believes they're trying to tap into our souls) and the reproductive obsession (Kerner believes the greys are trying to create an ensouled hybrid where 'they' can transfer their consciousness into it, ultimately die and be free of the material world once and for all). I don't know if Kerner has read the works of other abduction researchers.

Another book that is more in line with the traditional evangelical Christian p.o.v. is Dr. Gregory Little's 'Grand Illusions'. He's upfront about his belief that ufos and aliens are fallen angels (or demonic - same thing to him). He does present plenty of cases where the negativity and brutality by the greys are undeniable (assuming the abductees are telling the truth). He believes Ezekial and Elijah were accounts of fallen angels abducting them.

What surprised me about Dr. Little is he then went on to be a strong supporter of Edgar Cayce's channeled works, which is contradictory to what he warned about in Grand Illusions (or maybe at the time, Little was much more the evangelical than he is now).

 

[ArchieBedford]

The alien hybrids as Nephelim is a religiously loaded idea.

Originally when the nephilim were described and recorded it would not have been seen as "religiously loaded." It would simply be what people witnessed and described.

Drawing parallels with modern abduction accounts might be interpreted as "religious" by some (there was a guest on the paracast a few months back who was postulating that the greys were demons for example and had a plausible-sounding argument) but could these manifestations be related? Maybe it's not a "religious" issue but simply interactions with the same beings, described according to cultural paradigm. Most of us are familiar with the passage in Ezekiel describing a "wheel of fire" in the sky which transported the prophet up to the heavens and later returned him with new understandings from the "angels". Well, what's that about? Sound slightly familiar (adjust for cultural interpretation)?

 

[paraschtick]

Drawing parallels with modern abduction accounts might be interpreted as "religious" by some (there was a guest on the paracast a few months back who was postulating that the greys were demons for example and had a plausible-sounding argument)

I think that may have been L.A. Marzulli who it seems bases his work on David Jacobs ... but then again throws in the, in my opinion, silly nonsense about angels and demons and all that religious twaddle (yes I am railing against the silly religious nonsense more as I get older ).

[sorry if I offend anyone with what I've stated above ... but thats what I believe .]

[ppps are black triangles in some way related to the holy trinity??? I mean they do have 3 sides!!! ]

 

[GDT]

- telling anyone who will listen that you are a victim seeking sympathy and support."


Bulls eye - Gene. It maybe that since there is no help, nor even relief for anyone who has undergone a lifetime of these experiences... sometimes the abused - becomes the abuser as it is a way to release some of the pain and anger. Many times we just go totally Looney Tunes and become another Dr. Greer or one of the many crazies who may have had experiences, but lost their white knuckle grip onto their sanity.

Sympathy and support only gets you temporary relief from the suffering - no different than drinking or drugs... and that relief requires more and more of the same.

No one wants to believe they have been abducted as it is impossible, it is insane, but it is true. Dealing with the shock and lingering doubt- slowly eats at a persons' sanity. It sounds like this Emma, may have lost that battle.

Ahhhhh, anger... I feel better.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

I have now met firsthand three individuals during my life who claim/admit to being abductees. I personally have never had any experiences (touch wood), and I am not an investigator of any sort, so this number strikes me as being significant unless it is driven by pure chance and I somehow fall on the far end of the bell curve.

Each one of these alleged abductees is sane and actually quite intelligent. For example, one is an in-house legal counsel at a large company who carried a fair amount of responsibility in his/her job. Each one relayed stories, oftentimes backed up by some conscious recollections and occasionally physical trace evidence, of these encounters. Occasionally their stories included hybrids, admittedly sometimes brought up by hypnosis. In two instances there was supporting evidence of some strange occurrences provided by family members.

I don't know how to explain all this, outside of the fact that it doesn't appear to be entirely psychological in nature. When I heard the first abductee story in person more than a decade ago, my initial inclination was that the person was just seeking attention. However, the more I thought about what I had heard, I increasingly appreciated how genuinely shaken the alleged abductee's family members appeared by what they were telling me. Indeed, they struck me as being scared to death as to what was happening to their sister and oddities they had seen.

As to the interpretation of alien hybrids in a religious context, people see the world through the lens of their time and their local culture. While some disagree on the meaning of Genesis 6 (Sitchin's interpretation has been thoroughly debunked, in my opinion), you have to admit that it is a very odd passage. Michael Heiser, PhD, interprets the "sons of god" in the Chapter as meaning a class of non-physical beings, not man, not angels and not God. While one needs to be careful about reading too much into the parallels between this interpretation and the alleged hybridization phenomenon, you have to admit it is a little odd.

A logical criticism of the above paragraph would be the following: if the sons of god (aliens) had figured out how to make Nephilim (physical creatures; "giants" as the term was borrowed into Hebrew from Aramaic) in the days of old, why do they need to do some much genetic testing today to develop physically viable hybrids? Wouldn't they already possess the knowledge and capability, unless it was lost over time or we are talking about a different tribe of aliens? Indeed, the Genesis 6 passages seems to indicate that the creation of Nephilim never ceased, even after the Flood (n.b., Noah was "perfect" in his generations), with any post-Flood Nephilim created being killed in the military campaigns detailed in the Old Testament. Apart from the Old Testament text, the current "data" appears to indicate that something very well may be occurring re: hybridization, so we can't over-argue different interpretations of ancient text.

While Genesis 6 doesn't prove anything, you have to admit it is strange given that the Old Testament is as much of a history as it is a religious text.

 

[ArchieBedford]

As to the interpretation of alien hybrids in a religious context, people see the world through the lens of their time and their local culture. While some disagree on the meaning of Genesis 6 (Sitchin's interpretation has been thoroughly debunked, in my opinion), you have to admit that it is a very odd passage. Michael Heiser, PhD, interprets the "sons of god" in the Chapter as meaning a class of non-physical beings, not man, not angels and not God. While one needs to be careful about reading too much into the parallels between this interpretation and the alleged hybridization phenomenon, you have to admit it is a little odd.

A logical criticism of the above paragraph would be the following: if the sons of god (aliens) had figured out how to make Nephilim (physical creatures; "giants" as the term was borrowed into Hebrew from Aramaic) in the days of old, why do they need to do some much genetic testing today to develop physically viable hybrids? Wouldn't they already possess the knowledge and capability, unless it was lost over time or we are talking about a different tribe of aliens? Indeed, the Genesis 6 passages seems to indicate that the creation of Nephilim never ceased, even after the Flood (n.b., Noah was "perfect" in his generations), with any post-Flood Nephilim created being killed in the military campaigns detailed in the Old Testament. Apart from the Old Testament text, the current "data" appears to indicate that something very well may be occurring re: hybridization, so we can't over-argue different interpretations of ancient text.

While Genesis 6 doesn't prove anything, you have to admit it is strange given that the Old Testament is as much of a history as it is a religious text.

Very thought-provoking, Tom.

One explanation could be that the abduction/hybridization program reported consistently over the past several decades by so many thousands of individuals is initiated by a different set of beings with a different set of motives, using essentially similar bio-tech methods as reported in ancient times for similar species-hybridization results. When one examines the large variety of beings reported throughout the history of UFO-related phenomena by witnesses, all essentially humanoid and bipedal but with a lot of variation, one might conclude that genetic manipulation of biology between universally related species might be common throughout the galaxy. If this is the case, we can only speculate about motives, as they may be way outside our current religious/scientific/military colonization paradigms which tend to govern discussion and understanding for us.

It seems to me the consistency of reports of these beings from such a wide variety of sources over a long period in our current era, combined with references to what looks at least superficially to be records of non-human or part-human entities in ancient religious texts, might make this hypothesis at least credible. From my own experiences I can testify that some of them do now look very human, and might be mistaken for us, but they aren't all-human, exactly. Terms like "hybrids" or "transgenic beings" or "nephilim" or "nordics" or "human-looking aliens" are used perhaps for the same beings, or perhaps different sub-sets.

It's a complex phenomenon, with no easy answers. But we can agree at least that something like this is probably going on - for why, we can only speculate.

 

[codex]

thank you paraschitck! it might have been the book of levitations or the bible according to budwiser and yes Dr Jacobs keeps on returning - the emperor with no clothes ... pray who doth watch the watcher?

regards

codex

Blimey ... you've think you've heard it all ... and then you come across something even madder.

Sooo ... I thought I would listen to a discussion on The Byte Show podcast (religious/prophesy/end times related podcast) about abduction, ufos, "end times" etc.. Usually I give no time whatsoever to the religious ufo people since I'm not religious and believe that religion is extraordinarily childish.

Anyway ... its one hell of a listen if you can stomach the nonsense. The people featured in this round table is GeorgeAnn Hughes (presenter of the podcast), Lynn A Marzulli, Stan Deyo, and Doug Riggs.

And what did I learn? I learnt that alien hybrids (or he-brids as Marzulli calls them) are Nephilim ie fallen angels. Yeass ... really???? UFOs are satanic in origin ... yeass ... really. Oh and the fallen angels can manifest themselves as aliens or UFOs ... really??? Yes.

Madness ... complete and utter nonsense. And where do they get the ideas from?? The Bible of course ... Genesis something or other, Daniel something or other etc etc etc.. And ... for the hybrids???? Dr David Jacobs, of course.

So I rest my case ...

[Oh and satan is raising an army, apparently. For someone so supernatural and all powerful, he's taking a looooong time about it ... ]

Any comments appreciated ...

 

[brownie]

I think that may have been L.A. Marzulli who it seems bases his work on David Jacobs ... but then again throws in the, in my opinion, silly nonsense about angels and demons and all that religious twaddle (yes I am railing against the silly religious nonsense more as I get older ).

[sorry if I offend anyone with what I've stated above ... but thats what I believe .]

[ppps are black triangles in some way related to the holy trinity??? I mean they do have 3 sides!!! ]

Oh, but you know that triune thing you mentioned....it does show up in the occult. From 3 sided ufos... to 'aliens' often appearing in bedrooms (or on lonely roads) in 3s,... to MIBs usually appearing in 3s...And going way back -the 3 Wisemen/Magi that heralded the birth of Jesus....then earlier to the Triple-Goddess motif. Well, you get the idea.....there's something about 3s.

 

[codex]

and the trinity brownie ....

I see Gene always has the last say in the emma woods story, shuts the thread down. Must be a mate of the doc. Gene there are usually more than two sides to the story. Here's another one. OKay Gene, Emma Woods sent the tapes in a brown paper bag labelled "jacobgate" to the hybrids. They thanked her using IM. The hybrids had lots of fun making up new tapes to make Dr Jacobs look incompetent - boy that was hard they said in the IM to Emma who gleefully laughed and thought wow I can make it big in the paranormal world. I will get in the spotlight. THis had been her aim the whole way along. To be interviewed on radio then TV and take the spotlight away from the the defenceless doctor who had been warning the world for so long that hybrids were out to get him and they had enlisted Emma Woods but the rest of the world "couldn't see the woods for the trees" poor dr david lamented. Yes, I do hope the Emma Woods case gets to Court. I look forward to hearing the truth. Hours and hours of poor methodology and suggestive talking with sexual undertones. sorry paraschtick to hijack your thread but Gene's freedom of speech policy exists for the chosen few.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

and the trinity brownie ....

I see Gene always has the last say in the emma woods story, shuts the thread down. Must be a mate of the doc. Gene there are usually more than two sides to the story. Here's another one. OKay Gene, Emma Woods sent the tapes in a brown paper bag labelled "jacobgate" to the hybrids. They thanked her using IM. The hybrids had lots of fun making up new tapes to make Dr Jacobs look incompetent - boy that was hard they said in the IM to Emma who gleefully laughed and thought wow I can make it big in the paranormal world. I will get in the spotlight. THis had been her aim the whole way along. To be interviewed on radio then TV and take the spotlight away from the the defenceless doctor who had been warning the world for so long that hybrids were out to get him and they had enlisted Emma Woods but the rest of the world "couldn't see the woods for the trees" poor dr david lamented. Yes, I do hope the Emma Woods case gets to Court. I look forward to hearing the truth. Hours and hours of poor methodology and suggestive talking with sexual undertones. sorry paraschtick to hijack your thread but Gene's freedom of speech policy exists for the chosen few.

Codex, let's turn the tables: where is Emma's court case? Despite three years of complaints, as well as all the sound and fury from a few on this Forum, there is nothing concrete in front of any serious deliberative body, either in the U.S or in New Zealand. What are your next steps, beside complaining about Gene?

I believe Gene has behaved fairly to all involved in this controversy. I understand why he doesn't want the Forum to be used anonymously as a tool by someone who has a personal complaint against a public figure. I wouldn't either. This is a private forum, not a publicly supported venture, so while I am against censorship, the First Amendment doesn't apply and rules, however arbitrary, can be enforced.

The ball is clearly in your court to show the complaint is legitimate and merits a hearing before a real tribunal -- not an internet chat forum.

 

[paraschtick]

Yes, I do hope the Emma Woods case gets to Court. I look forward to hearing the truth. Hours and hours of poor methodology and suggestive talking with sexual undertones. sorry paraschtick to hijack your thread but Gene's freedom of speech policy exists for the chosen few.

I don't mind you hijacking my thread, codex. What really gets my goat is when people close the thread just as I'm going to make an earth shatteringly witty quip ... takes the wind right out of my sails, believe me. I have all these gut shakingly wonderful witicisms now with nowhere to go ...

[Oh and carry on ... by the way ...

ps Where have you been by the way? I've been saying the same stuff here for months ... ]

---------- Post added at 10:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

Oh, but you know that triune thing you mentioned....it does show up in the occult. From 3 sided ufos... to 'aliens' often appearing in bedrooms (or on lonely roads) in 3s,... to MIBs usually appearing in 3s...And going way back -the 3 Wisemen/Magi that heralded the birth of Jesus....then earlier to the Triple-Goddess motif. Well, you get the idea.....there's something about 3s.

Yeah that is a bit odd. Though I've also heard the Men in Black turn up in twos as well ... or is that just the movie?? The one with the cool guy ... yeah that Tommy Lee bloke. The black guy couldn't be cool even in a freezing works ... .

[ps Oh and there is the Triple Breasted Whore of Eroticon 6 ... but thats of course neither here nor there, is it DNA fans?? ]

[pps yes its late ... more sensible replies maybe tomorrow ... if I'm up ]

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I see Gene always has the last say in the emma woods story, shuts the thread down. Must be a mate of the doc.

I notice you also live in New Zealand. You know her personally perhaps? Curious that you only joined us during the middle of this discussion.

 

[Xylo]

This endless droning on the Emma Woods case is not accomplishing anything. The same points keep being bandied about with no resolution, no room for a grey area. It seems to me that there were mistakes made on both sides of the story.

What we can glean from this case is that there need to be better protocols for patient-therapist interaction, and a set protocol for regression hypnotherapy.

Any chance that we can all agree upon that?


And with the above statement, I am out of this particular line of discussion, as I see no forward momentum whatsoever in it.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

This endless droning on the Emma Woods case is not accomplishing anything. The same points keep being bandied about with no resolution, no room for a grey area. It seems to me that there were mistakes made on both sides of the story.

And in light of the strange synergy between the location of Emma and one of her biggest supporters, maybe we've entered the realm of sockpuppets. You're right. If there is a legal resolution of some sort, we will cover it. Otherwise, I'm done with it.