America, some one doesnt want you to have guns anymore...

[pixelsmith]

Minnesota is a “shall-issue” state for right to carry permits, meaning that permits must be issued to any qualified applicant. However, the state is not a conceal-and-carry state; permits are required for carrying openly. Permits are issued by county sheriffs at a cost of up to $100. To obtain a permit, applicants must successfully complete a firearms safety course within one year of their application for a permit and undergo a criminal background check.

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[Konrad Hartmann]

From the outside looking in, it's absurd that bonafide killers and the criminally insane can just walk into a gun show and walk away with a gun. It's basically nuts, and the majority of Americans agree. They like to be free, and that means walking down the street without facing crazy amounts of heavy weaponry from the lunatics milling about.

Stop being so goddamn paranoid, geez, try to be a bit rational about it. Decisisions made from fear are rarely good, and I see a lot of fear among the gun-loving right.

I agree that decisions made from fear are rarely good, which why I have reservations about the current push for new gun bans. Gun violence rates have actually declined, news hype to the contrary:
Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice

The popular news is there for entertainment purposes only, and if it bleeds, it leads as they say.

Now, I don't know how other states do it, but when I have been to gun shows in Pennsylvania, the vendors have to have a federal firearms dealer license, and the buyers have to spend (last time I checked) about $10 to have a driver's license swiped through the quick check system, which supposedly flags a criminal record.

When I was a kid, you could go to a flea market and just buy a gun from whomever. While it may occasionally still happen that way, it is illegal and I haven't seen anyone selling guns like that for a few years.

 

[Konrad Hartmann]

That may be the case in your area, heck it may be the case nationally, I can't really speak on it since I haven't purchased any ammunition lately, but don't you think that's just because more people were (and probably are now as I write this) buying guns and ammo, rather than an elaborate conspiracy? It's probably a direct consequence of the gun bill and the tragedy that happened recently, gun and ammo sales always tend to go through the roof when things like this happen.

Gun, ammo, and accessory sales go through the roof every time there is talk of new gun laws. One gun blogger, a former gun store owner, joked that Obama was the best salesman they ever had. Unless the firearms industry is creating artificial shortages to increase prices (I don't think so, but I'm just saying), I don't know of a conspiracy behind the shortages. I don't know there is less ammo being manufactured because of shortages with raw materials or something like that.

But yeah, I think the main reason for shortages of guns and ammo is that they are being bought at an unprecedented rate.

 

[SlightlyAbovePar]

The Second Amendment speaks of a "well regulated militia" in connection with the right to bear arms. The NRA never noticed that.

Nope, I don't think we can relate what happens in Europe to what happens here.

The "well regulated militia" you speak of was, and is, average, every day citizens. This is evidenced by the writing of the founding fathers. This is an old meme. You may not agree with it, but the idea the phrase implies the national guard, or another government institution, is false.

 

[SlightlyAbovePar]

The idea the Senate defied the will of America is ridiculous. Gun control advocates continuously ask for a "national discussion" while ignoring the one thats already taken place. The NRA is made up of, literally, millions of members. Members who are engaged in the discussion and make their voices heard. It's a common refrain to paint the NRA as nothing more than a bunch of white guys funded by the gun industry. It's true the NRA receives monies from the gun industry; just like Boeing funds their lobbyists. The NRA also receives millions of dollars from every day Americans who believe in the Second Amendment.

Points for consideration: we live in a representative republic, not a democracy. Mob rule is not the law of the land. The constitution has very specific requirements set forth for modification. If those who oppose gun ownership want the constitution changed, it can happen. The second amendment is NOT about hunting. It's about the ability to oppose a tyrannical government. Hunting was not in the founding fathers thinking. To be blunt: shooting agents of an oppressive government was.

There are many, many misconceptions around weapon ownership. "Assault Weapon" is, literally, a made up term specifically created to elicit emotional responses from those who don't really know what their talking about (sorry). Yes, yes, I know you can point me to wiki pages with definitions. It's bullshit. I've spent time in the military; I can assure you, "Assault weapon" is nonsense.

Equating my gun ownership with being part of our violence rates is the same as me equating your ownership of a spoon being responsible for obesity.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I don't see how there could be an effort to disarm American citizens, simply because it's way, way too late.
I don't know the exact stats, but isn't there several guns per person in the USA? I personally know a guy in Texas with an official armoury. Meaning, he has had to declare all his weapons with the police or whatever, due to the sheer number. I believe he has more than 250 firearms. Now that might be an excessive case and obviously does not represent the average gun owner at all but the fact remains there already is a huge number of guns in private ownership. Even if gun sales were banned today in the US, and not one single gun was ever sold again, There will still be this enormous number of privately owned guns that aren't going to just go away.
I don't know about the amount of ammunition but I think it reasonable to assume that anyone owning guns is going to have a fair amount of ammo. Not to stereotype but the kind of person who keeps a gun for self-protection is usually the kind to make sure it's either loaded or the ammo is kept handy for use in an emergency. Until the Govt. goes door-to-door and forcibly tries to disarm the population, the number of firearms around will remain huge.

And, it's comical to think that gun owners would just lay down and allow the government to take away their weapons.
Whether anyone is for/against private gun ownership is pretty much immaterial, they are already out there.

I am left thinking that any form of gun control measure is purely a political act for show, cos it won't make a blind bit of difference to the availability. Any measure about registering guns, or background checks etc won't make one iota of difference to those intent on using guns for illegal purposes. Criminals and spree-killers will be able to get black-market guns as easily as drugs. I don't support criminals obtaining illegal guns, it's just a fact. The rules will only really matter to those who obey the law anyway.

 

[pixelsmith]

There are several guns per person in Minnesota thats for sure.

 

[boomerang]

The number of people going postal these days is indeed a mystery but I don't think we yet know what it means. If anything, the horrid Boston debacle illustrated (to my American mindset anyway) the need for personal protection. The thought of being hunkered down in my house with a desperate and well armed psycho on the loose and no means of defense is an unpleasant one. Having said that, I am very glad suspect #2 was apprehended by commissioned police officers.

 

[starise]

Jimi, I agree there is a lot of paranoia out there on both sides of this issue,or as you say,fear. Some things are worth becoming concerned about even if they aren't true.

Even the possibility that my freedoms might be eroded in any area is worth looking at the law and exercising our rights through elected officials and representation to assure that this never happens.

I guarantee you a lack of diligence on the part of those who want to keep their guns will result in the other side having their way completely. Lack of a lobby and no concern would kill guns in America.