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Ancient knowledge, lost or censored ?

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there is a difference between a personal belief system and organized religion.
I'm sure there are alot of people here who believe in things which create a "liquid" unstructured and less fetishized belief system than an established dogmatic religious system, which is tailored to their own cultural and personal needs as well as there own individualized personality. I believe its imperitive to make a connection with a "god" without a middleman. There are alot of ways and systems to use in order to do this. Sometimes these things find the individual as wll as making a concious choice. Ultimately people have the right to believe in what ever they want. Its truth should be self evident.

peace
 
I just detest the certainty of some. Like they pity you for not obeying a holy book, written by people from very different cultures a long time ago.
Who wants to copy anything remotely religious from the middle east? That region has zero to teach me about god for one good reason - they don't know any more than I do. I am not down on these cultures for anything other than religion, in fact, we all owe many debts to some great peoples in history, but pushing a story no more believable than Stan Romanek's is not something I am thankful for in any way, shape or form. In fact, quite the opposite.
 
it has its place. we mustn't forget some belief systems are set and bound up geographically and culturally to a particular region. If you dont want a bunch of people spreading diseases and dieing then your gonna put a law in your book saying God says dont wipe your ass with your right hand. Religion helps alot of people deal with life who need instruction. Ok sometimes it has a negative impact on others but thats more the politics of religious belief than the actual religion itself. without religion i'm sure there would be alot of godless moraly indignant people f*cking with our shit. at the moment i'd put up with some of the rightwing self righteous illogical and irational dogmatists for the majority of people that lead peaceful harmless indoctrinated lives and keep themselves to themselves.
 
The problem comes when the religious try to force their beliefs on others, history is rife with examples of this happening. Believe what I believe or die, infidel. We can look to the middle east to see where this kind of thinking leads when taken to extremes. There was a time when it was an enlightened center of learning that was responsible for a lot of our early concepts of astronomy and mathematics, among other things. At some point, they devolved into fundamentalism, and became the center of intolerance and throwback to the 13th century that a lot of the area is today. Personally, I feel that the vast majority of people would be better off without organized religion that preaches the conversion and indoctrination of non believers. A personal relationship with the god of your choice is one thing, actively trying it shove it down everyone's throat through the use of force and other shady tactics is quite another.

Please don't think I'm trying to start a religious debate, just throwing my 2 cents in.:)​
 
Muadib said:
"...Personally, I feel that the vast majority of people would be better off without organized religion that preaches the conversion and indoctrination of non believers. A personal relationship with the god of your choice is one thing, actively trying it shove it down everyone's throat through the use of force and other shady tactics is quite another.

Please don't think I'm trying to start a religious debate, just throwing my 2 cents in.:)​
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Boom, there it is !
 
@nameless - I disagree it has a place. I accept some people do live good lives and help others in the name of religion. Half of my family are very religious and I love them all.

Fact is, if you need religion to make you act in a good way then I'm not sure that says anything whatsoever about your character. People who are good and helpful anyway are far better in my eyes because they are not acting a certain way cos a book told them or they are scared of hell or greedy for heaven.
I try to be a good person even though I think death is the end. I want to be good rather than bad cos it feels like there is no choice. I do not want to be 'evil' but I don't need to buy into all the other unprovable rubbish that comes with religion.
 
Having said that through I feel it is important to mention as much as I have my issues with organized religions I have equal issues with those out there that point to religion as a source of the world's issue. Yes religion gets name dropped as a reason but we all know that if religion had never been "invented", man would still find to way to justify his cruelty to his fellow man. There's a lot of "isms" out there. I'd still like to think there is something awaiting us in the end but I don't use that wish to determine how I run my life, my mother's backhand did it's intended job when I was young.
 
You might as well just use the word ideology or philosophy rather than religion. Functionally I see no distinction and doing so may make such discussions more amiable to some.

There are toxic ideologies and philosophies that take many forms. I don't think anyone will argue that point.
 
trainedobserver said:
You might as well just use the word ideology or philosophy rather than religion. Functionally I see no distinction and doing so may make such discussions more amiable to some.

There are toxic ideologies and philosophies that take many forms. I don't think anyone will argue that point.
Click to expand...

A Very nicely worded (and nuanced) distinction
 
@trainedobserver

were you a philosophy major? you put a lot of thought into your posts without sounding contrived.
 
goggsmackay said:
@nameless - I disagree it has a place. I accept some people do live good lives and help others in the name of religion. Half of my family are very religious and I love them all.

Fact is, if you need religion to make you act in a good way then I'm not sure that says anything whatsoever about your character.
Click to expand...

actually it says more about society, education and indoctrination.
Most religious people do not come to their god through choice. they are born into believeing something unquestioningly.
 
trainedobserver said:
You might as well just use the word ideology or philosophy rather than religion. Functionally I see no distinction and doing so may make such discussions more amiable to some.

There are toxic ideologies and philosophies that take many forms. I don't think anyone will argue that point.
Click to expand...

there is a distinction. Ideolgy and philosophy is usually worked out via imagination, rational thinking, logic and a personal belief based on empiricism. religion is often a concesus belief sysytem based on faith in someone elses made up map making skills which requires you to believe without choice and to take someone else's reality as a blind fact.

religion is fascistic in the sense that a bunch of people are coming togther under one cause, or one greater go(o)d. This explains in some way the inability of religious systems to reconcile the idea of free will. as far as herd control goes. most religions do an ample job. I would love to see the day when people are autonomous in their religious belief systems, based on personal responsibility and persoanl reflection/introspection. I cant see an approach to a godhead state in any other way.
 
spookymulder said:
A Very nicely worded (and nuanced) distinction
@trainedobserver were you a philosophy major? you put a lot of thought into your posts without sounding contrived.
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Thank you, I appreciate that. No, I have no formal education in the subject. I'm an old computer guy who moved into technical writing. I have just had a life long interest in religion, philosophy, and just trying to figure out what is going on in my head like everyone else does I imagine.
 
I agree about T.O's style of writing - always very full in explanation with deep insights and a good wide knowledge. He is on my watched list here and knows I appreciate his comments and posts always.
Not having been on the forum for too long, I don't know yet the rate of new members but seems last couple months have produced a few new very interesting poster's and some Norwegian Trolls.
By the way, if you ain't seen 'Troll Hunter', check it out. No Oscars but a lot of fun.
 
goggsmackay said:
I agree about T.O's style of writing - always very full in explanation with deep insights and a good wide knowledge. He is on my watched list here and knows I appreciate his comments and posts always.
Not having been on the forum for too long, I don't know yet the rate of new members but seems last couple months have produced a few new very interesting poster's and some Norwegian Trolls.
By the way, if you ain't seen 'Troll Hunter', check it out. No Oscars but a lot of fun.
Click to expand...
Have to agree Troll Hunter is awesome :D
 
To throw in my two cents people should treat each other with respect and not kill each other and do various other moral things not because some book or books tell them to but because its the right way to live.Ultimately people should believe what they do because they have decided it for themselves and not because others have told them that this is the way to think and live.
 
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