Kieran
Paranormal Adept
Human mind is easily fooled. I better stay inside my house so, i might hurt myself!!
Angel your blinded by your faith,
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Another Skepticism Thread - Audio
- Thread starter Angel of Ioren
- Start date
Free episodes:
Human mind is easily fooled. I better stay inside my house so, i might hurt myself!!
Angel your blinded by your faith,
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
You can chose to view it that way - I'm fine with it. So, have you actually read and listened to what I originally posted in this thread? When you do, please reply to this thread with your thoughts, because that's why I posted it. Or do you refuse to listen to the other side? I obviously don't mind entertaining other views since I'm here.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
Did you even read the link i provided. From the way you have responded, I know you haven't. I have nothing more to say to you. In reality most Skeptics are Debunkers. We need to come up with a new term to describe people that are in-between.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
I did read it, at least the links pertaining to the fighter jets incident. The final conclusions from the military was summarized as this:
Where does it say aliens? That's all I'm saying. There is no definitive proof. Also, some of the translations are iffy. It looks like they used an online translator or something.
justcurious
Flying Kitchenettes
Kieran, you have to understand Angelo... He said in another thread that he had seen a Gray in his room.
If the UFO phenomenon would turn out to have an Alien cause, that could mean very bad news for his anatomy.
If the UFO phenomenon would turn out to have an Alien cause, that could mean very bad news for his anatomy.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
What you've just posted Angel, does not help your argument. The general believes (balloons, RPV, Stealth, Laser Projections or mirages) was not the cause. So what are we left with?
General Brouwer (now retired) has gone public. His opinion that this was Craft of unknown origin (which means not ours)
It is in French and English. What parts are you referring to that you don't understand?
---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
I avoided calling Angel out on this, even though i asked him to explain this experience on another thread. It none of my business, and I have to respect his privacy if he doesn't want to talk about it to anyone.
justcurious
Flying Kitchenettes
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
Trust me, I'm not worried about my anatomy. Although frightening, sleep paralysis is not known to be dangerous.
---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
Calling me out on what? That I understand what sleep paralysis is? Trust me, my wife has been there with me, and she's been awake during my sleep paralysis a few times. She did not see anything that you would classify as an alien.
Look guys, we can argue about this all you want. Just because you would choose to attribute visitors from another planet to a strange experience you've had doesn't mean everyone else does. And Keiran, I did explain it in the other thread if I remember correctly - like I said, typical text book case of sleep paralysis. Please do not put words in my mouth, that is not cool.
With regards to the report, I read both the original French and the translated English - I was only commenting that the translation was wonky. If you want to attribute it to an alien space craft, I'm not going to stop you.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
I was under the impression that it happened to you at a young age. I'm sorry, that was my mistake. Angel I'm not saying it wasn't sleep paralysis, all i asked was, do you not find it all strange your experience involved seeing an Alien? You have decided it's not anything usual. I'm fine with that.
Angel. This is a forum that talks about the strange and unbelievable. Why you here, if you can't even entertain the possibility we have been visited by other intelligences. Evidence handed to the Public directly from the Belgium Security and Defence apparatus, isn't even good enough to change your mindset on this issue. I don't know you personally, but don't try to downgrade something you do not understand. We are not all idiots and fools, just because you can't accept it. Doesn't make it less real for the rest of us.
Angel smell the coffee. The UFO phenomenon has trotted the globe since 1947. Pretty strange for a phenomenon that doesn't exist, to have the ability to effect so many lives and create headlines in so many newspapers and articles around the world. So every UFO case from 1947, and lot of good cases have never been logged in any database . All those cases since 1947 have rational explanation is that your view or not?
If so, i ask again Why do you even bother taking time out of your schedule, to come here. Personally I wouldn't bother coming here, if i didn't believe this was a Real phenomenon. So i think i am the more sane one out of the two of us, just because of that!!
In relation to the website i posted. The English version is for English speakers and the French version is for people who speak fluent French. It not a translation from one to the other. The French version is not translated in English. Only French speakers would have noticed that.
justcurious
Flying Kitchenettes
I must agree. If the phenomenon was purely imaginary, fuelled by our Pop-culture, we would have 10 times as much Mariophany cases as we have UFO cases.
We would probably also have a Santaclausology with radar/visual reports, contactees "HE took me aboard HIS sleigh", abductees (by the little elves and probed with candy sticks...ooops sorry for that), cover-up of crashed sleigh, FOIA documents, fake rain-deer autopsies in underground bases and all...
courtesy Wickerman
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
The English version seems to be a translation of the French. I speak, read, and write both fluently (I live in Quebec after all). Anyway, I'm here because a few years ago I was more of a believer, although you would have probably thought me a debunker then too. I had sleep paralysis when I was younger as well, and back then I think I saw a monster or something - I don't know, but I do know I was terrified.
Also, why wouldn't I see an "alien"? It's so engrained in pop culture that I would be more surprised if I didn't see something like that. Anyway, you guys can chose to believe what you want, I am not faulting you. However, I still haven't seen any undeniable proof that we're being visited by aliens. I could be wrong though. Anyway, I'm fed up of saying that, and it's getting old.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
I can't see what your seeing on your computer. But the French version is not translated into English anywhere on my page.
Justcurious do you speak French. I do. Do you see what Angel is referring to?
---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
In the English version. Just to show you what I am seeing. There is article called the (The Belgium Flap the Interest)
First line of this text in English: Among some of the better documented and investigatable cases that have occurred in the last decade is the rash of UFO sightings which took place over Belgium (End text)
First line of the same text in French: Parmi les cas les plus avérés et les mieux documentés des années 1990, la vague d'OVNIS qui déferlent sur la Belgique occupe une place privilégiée (End of text)
My Translation of the French version to English. Among the cases the most proven and best documented of the 1990's, the UFO wave breaking over Belgium occupies a privleged place (End text)
justcurious
Flying Kitchenettes
Oui Kieran, le Français est ma première langue.
The web site's translation is accurate, but yours is better, "Frenchly" speaking.
What is it that you wanted me to check ?
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
Oui Kieran, le Français est ma première langue.
The web site's translation is accurate, but yours is better, "Frenchly" speaking.
What is it that you wanted me to check ?
No it's fine now Thanks. Angel has issues with the Translation, but I'm still not sure what those Issues were, if he doesn't reply to me.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
We were looking at two different things. I was looking at the copy of the official paper from the government, and below that was a translation in English. All is well.
Well, I've had a few sleep paralysis episodes, but I never saw any aliens.
How do we know that aliens (if any) can't induce sleep paralysis in the people they're visiting?
On a more serious note, I'd be offended if someone told me I shouldn't be overwhelmed by a sunset because it's just light being scattered by atmospheric dust, or music because it's just an arrangement of sounds some guy put together. But there's a strain in skepticism that would like to do that to paranormal (and other) experiences. That thinks our primary goal in life should be to study the world (science) rather than live in it (which opens the door to art, religion, and yes, the paranormal).
How do we know that aliens (if any) can't induce sleep paralysis in the people they're visiting?
On a more serious note, I'd be offended if someone told me I shouldn't be overwhelmed by a sunset because it's just light being scattered by atmospheric dust, or music because it's just an arrangement of sounds some guy put together. But there's a strain in skepticism that would like to do that to paranormal (and other) experiences. That thinks our primary goal in life should be to study the world (science) rather than live in it (which opens the door to art, religion, and yes, the paranormal).
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
Considering that I've played music most of my life and I have an art history degree, that really doesn't describe me. However, I do like to champion science over pseudo-science.
I'll be honest with you, in the world of the paranormal, I'm the least skeptical of UFOs. People have seen strange things. I just don't like to attribute them automatically to aliens. We have to remember that the "H" in ETH stands for hypothesis. It's interesting yes, but there's not enough proof to call it a theory, in the scientific sense of the word.
What I do actively despise are things that go against science - creationism, homeopathic medicine, conspiracies regarding climate change and the moon landing, that there's a face on Mars, etc. All those things have been pretty much discounted.
UFO with zero human explanations and ghosts (or whatever you want to call them) have no proof. That doesn't mean that one day we won't find some proof. Until then I will remain skeptical of them. Just like I will of psychics and their ilk. When someone wins the JREF's million dollars, I'll be happy to see it.
Hopefully people replying to this thread are actually looking at the original post. I'm fed up if talking about the Belgium UFO case in this thread. It's an interesting case and deserves it's own thread, if it doesn't already have one. I think the findings of the article I posted are plausible, more so than aliens, but again, as always, I can always be wrong. I'm sure Keiran and Justcurious would be glad to tell you that I am. So, please, no more posts in this thread about that case, but I do encourage you to read and listed to my original post.
Thanks,
Angelo
On July 26, 2000, the US medical community received a titanic shock to the system, when one of its most respected public-health experts, Dr. Barbara Starfield, revealed her findings on healthcare in America. Starfield was, and still is, associated with the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health.
The Starfield study, “Is US health really the best in the world?”, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, came to the following conclusions:
Every year in the US there are:
12,000 deaths from unnecessary surgeries;
7,000 deaths from medication errors in hospitals;
20,000 deaths from other errors in hospitals;
80,000 deaths from infections acquired in hospitals;
106,000 deaths from FDA-approved correctly prescribed medicines.
The total of medically-caused deaths in the US every year is 225,000.
This makes the medical system the third leading cause of death in the US, behind heart disease and cancer. [And this was ten years ago, I'm sure the numbers today are even higher.]
Need I remind everyone: There is a flip side to every coin of contention
To Angel of Ioren, I don't know much about the Belgian case and have no opinion on it. And I think it's highly unlikely that aliens are invading our bedrooms.
I did listen to the audio link on skepticism. My post was more about that, in that I think some skeptics are disingenuous on what their ultimate aims are. For a certain type of skeptic it's to deflate anomalous experiences by explaining them away (not just providing a scientific explanation for what may still be important experiences). To that type of skeptic it's about reality control, not science.
We don't stop watching sunsets because they're sunlight shining through dust. We don't stop listening to music because it's a human creation. And I don't think we should ignore anomalous experiences even if it turns out all of them can be explained scientifically.
I did listen to the audio link on skepticism. My post was more about that, in that I think some skeptics are disingenuous on what their ultimate aims are. For a certain type of skeptic it's to deflate anomalous experiences by explaining them away (not just providing a scientific explanation for what may still be important experiences). To that type of skeptic it's about reality control, not science.
We don't stop watching sunsets because they're sunlight shining through dust. We don't stop listening to music because it's a human creation. And I don't think we should ignore anomalous experiences even if it turns out all of them can be explained scientifically.
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
I could have given you a simple thanks, which I did. However, I also wanted to give you a "well said," and there's no button for that.
---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
I understand that - people die in hospitals and mistakes happen - seemingly a lot in your country's health care system. Perhaps it has something to do with the way health care works in the United States, I don't know. I wonder though, how many people would die if we didn't rely on science based medicine?
That's all I'm saying. People like Jenny McCarthy leading a crusade against vaccines on the basis of a flawed and retracted study by a discredited doctor is not good either. Homeopathy can not cure anything, you may as well drink glass of water.