April 13, 2014 Listener Roundtable

[Constance]

What I said was: "There's more than enough in the documented history of those decades on which to conclude that the intruders were 'not us, not ours." I still think, with the COMETA experts, that the ETH is the most reasonable hypothesis concerning the 5-10 percent of ufos that remain unexplained after considerable investigation. It's a hypothesis, not a statement of fact, right?

 

[trainedobserver]

What I said was: "There's more than enough in the documented history of those decades on which to conclude that the intruders were 'not us, not ours."

The above statement is an opinion, not a fact, even though you have phrased it as a statement of fact. This is exactly my problem with the whole UFOs are alien craft business.

I still think, with the COMETA experts, that the ETH is the most reasonable hypothesis concerning the 5-10 percent of ufos that remain unexplained after considerable investigation. It's a hypothesis, not a statement of fact, right?

Well, technically it is not even a proper scientific hypothesis is it? How do we test that?

Could another civilization from another planet build machines that could bring them here? It might be possible. We aren't even sure that we can safely travel to Mars. We are learning that living and traveling in space is even harder than we may have thought. For example, the latest is that prolonged zero-g causes the eyes to change shape and deteriorate. Radiation is still a major hazard we have yet to overcome. Our dreams of becoming a "star-faring" race may turn out to be a pipe-dream. It doesn't mean that someone else out there couldn't do it, but it does give one pause in the assumption that it is a forgone conclusion.

I personally cannot make the statement that UFOs (whatever percentage you want to float) are definitely alien vehicles from somewhere else. All I can safely say is that I don't know what they are. I also don't see how anyone else, without some very specific and direct knowledge, could know any better.

 

[Charlie Prime]

Just finished listening. This is one of my favorite Paracast episodes yet.

You guys make me feel like such a newb. Thank you gentlemen!

 

[Randall]

That is not the same thing as sure knowledge.

There is no such thing as "sure knowledge" for anything other than pure logic. So using the argument that we cannot make a claim about the reality of something that is well within the bounds of the reasonable ( e.g. not pure fantasy or fiction ), because we don't have "sure knowledge", can be applied to virtually anything else. Therefore, on its own, the "sure knowledge" objection carries little weight as counterpoint.

Also, the phenomena is not monolithic in presentation and presumably not in source. Sorting one root cause from the other seems an impossible task.

For UFOs the root cause is alien. If it's not alien, then it's not a UFO, and the specific details aren't relevant to the bigger picture. Just the fact that they're alien to begin with should be sufficient to get some serious attention.

I am in complete agreement that many UFO reports appear to be describing beings and vehicles from outside of contemporary human civilization. However, to say that alien visitation has occurred or is occurring is beyond actual verification, for me at least. The fact that every single bit of "undeniable proof" that has been presented over the years is anything but, subtracts from my hope of ever seeing verification, if that is an actual desirable outcome, which I seriously doubt.

Doubt is essential, and your point about verification is very well taken. However based on personal observation, and the study of ufology, some craft have performed maneuvers so radical that it is simply not reasonable to seriously think that our own technology comes anywhere close, even today. There's simply no way the thing I saw was one of ours. It was an alien craft.

I can't say with any degree of certainty that any UFO report describes something that can be undeniably declared a real-world alien craft. Can you?

I believe I just did.

 

[Randall]

... All I can safely say is that I don't know what they are. I also don't see how anyone else, without some very specific and direct knowledge, could know any better.

Depending on the factors involved, a CE-1 type experience is "specific" and "direct" enough for an experienced ufologist ( and most well informed people ) to draw a reasonable conclusion about the nature of the object observed e.g. "alien" or "not alien".

 

[trainedobserver]

Depending on the factors involved, a CE-1 type experience is "specific" and "direct" enough for an experienced ufologist ( and most well informed people ) to draw a reasonable conclusion about the nature of the object observed e.g. "alien" or "not alien".

That is just your opinion Randall. Not a statement of fact, and not something I care to argue ...endlessly.

 

[Randall]

That is just your opinion Randall. Not a statement of fact, and not something I care to argue ...endlessly.

Actually, what I said is part fact and part opinion, and it is a misperception that opinions don't carry weight ( they can ). To clarify, A CE-1 is a specific type of firsthand experience ( not an opinion ), and when a person has such an experience, then by its definition it has provided the experiencer with specific and direct information ( that's not an opinion either ), and given that information, an experienced ufologist and most well informed people are capable of drawing a reasonable conclusion about the nature of the object that was observed. This last part is an opinion but it also carries weight because the opinions as referenced are in the context of "well informed people", not mere facetious or flippant statements without any substance.

 

[Sentry]

I'm posting this here, since this was discussed in the episode. Thinking about witness testimony, I finally took the time to check the date and gather what few facts could be found surrounding my ghost sighting.

It turned out to be an interesting exercise, and shows me how memory can spotlight some things, while moving others deep into the shadows.

Blue Blurry Lines: Dateline 1966: A Paranormal Encounter
The Case of the Boy Who Cried Ghost

 

[Wade]

Words alone cannot possible express how much I liked that post. As interesting as the encounter was, I liked your procedure, consider everything and eliminate the as best you can. SOP.


For the record though i liked the following season more. It had Space Ghost , The Herculoids, Shazaam and Mighty Mightor.