April 19 - Kimball & Stevens

[Kevin Daly]

The morphological aspect of aliens is interesting. The variety of descriptions may demonstrate the conditions under which these beings are subjected to on their home planet or in inter-stellar conditions.

A life-bearing planet with less mass or gravity might encourage the development of tall beings with lower requirements for neck support.
The lack of light on a red dwarf might encourage the development of large eyes in order to capture as many photons as possible.

A homeless race, travelling on a massive survival ark because their star became a red giant and swallowed their home planet might have developed bizarre adaptative characteristics.

Migrating to a planet like the earth might be a very long adaptation process possible only through hybrid or genetic modification of their own breed so that they are eventually able to support the level of radiation, gravity or other parameters of our planet. (thus the abductions ).

The movie 'War of the worlds' demonstrated the ultimate effect of not adapting your breed to an alien environment. An intelligent race would understand the need for adaptive measures you would think ? Abductions make sense... when you need a new home world (yikes)

I agree with much of that, but hybridisation with a truly alien species still makes absolutely no sense: forget all the Star Trek Happy Families With Aliens stuff: as I've said before, you have more in common genetically with a mushroom than with an alien, and a Hell of a lot more in common with a fruit fly (similar genes in similar places doing similar things). That's what common ancestry does for you.
Aliens have the same chance of being able to hybridise with us as Jeff Goldblum has of being able to implant a virus in an alien computer from his Macbook...

So I don't buy genetic splicing. I do agree however that they might find it useful to study human physiology with a view to reverse-engineering aspects of it in their own species.
Although if they were going to do that, much of what they'd need is freely available information. And you wouldn't have to repeatedly abduct people over and over again: a cow works the same way today that it worked yesterday, after all.

Wild speculation time: If the itty-bitty spindly bodies exist and are also not "telepresence" machines of some kind, they might be the result of adaptation to a prolonged existence in a low-gravity environment (let's say a sub-light interstellar spacecraft that's actually a hollowed-out asteroid or something like that). It would make sense to make modifications on arrival to suit local conditions, and as part of that you might try to understand why the locals are put together the way they are (most of that paragraph might also apply if they're, let's say Homo futurus)

If the triangles are not of terrestrial origin I'd be almost willing to bet they're adaptations to operating in a planetary atmosphere or something like that (they also blend in a bit better obviously).

IMO, here's a somewhat plausible scenario if they're aliens:
1) Arrived in the solar system about 60-70 years ago in a generation ship, parked out among the outer planets somewhere.
2) Were surprised to find that the locals had been busy since their probes had reported back that a habitable system had been found (breeding and developing their technology), and were also in the middle of a global war. Best not to interrupt them when they're busy. Might not be responsive to the "We Are Your Gods" schtick at this juncture.
3) Also discovered they themselves had made physical adaptations to the long flight which were not great for living on a planet again, and that their craft designs and training were also more suitable for open space (hence the crashes).
4) Consequently they withdrew to the outer system and/or oceans in order to study the situation, make adjustments and also carry out a marketing campaign on the locals, aimed at seeding their culture with the image of an all-powerful, all-wise alien race. The Resistance Is Useless meme. Also encourage the Space Brothers thing wherever possible. In other words I'm suggesting we may be dealing with interstellar con men: Bill Knells From The Stars if you will.
(An alternative scenario is that they just said "sod this" and left, and that everything since then has been the combination of unrelated oddities and the growth of mythology).

 

[Schuyler]

The following is wild speculation for the sake of argument only taking these issues at face value:

IF 'hybridization' is an issue, then 'they' are a whole lot closer to us genetically than any 'aliens' could possibly be. 'They' appear to want us to believe they are 'aliens from another planet,' but that may just be a convenience or our interpretation as a 'star trek generation' that is focused on space travel. What is the likelihood that an alien species which evolved on a different planet even has 'DNA' as a method of replication? Perhaps evolution to complex forms dictates a replication structure similar to our DNA, but it could not possibly be alike in enough features to allow an intermediate hybrid. That is just about as likely as mating whales and humans expecting to come up with something viable--or useful.

So IF these stories of hybridization carry an element of truth, then that shows the aliens aren't aliens at all. Take that as a premise and run with it.

 

[marduk]

Regarding the "hybridization program" the fictional book Nighteyes by Garfield Reeves-Stevens covers this aspect in detail.

Basically a scientist gets involved with the abduction phenomenon and makes the obvious correlation that if there is hybridization going on then the aliens are human, or close to it. Turns out they are time travellers in the book, from a post-apocalyptic human future. Basically most of humanity is wiped out by aliens in an unexplained way and the remnants launch a massive multigenerational ship to counterattack. This ship goes out and wipes out the threat and returns to earth only to learn that humans are extinct for some reason. The "aliens" have adapted themselves like ants to serve specific duties for thousands of years on board this generation starship and have lost the genetic richness of the greater population and are dying. So they go back in time to harvest the pre-apocalypse genetic riches that we have.

Or somesuch thing. It's been ten years since I read it, a decent thriller if I remember right.

 

[Hoffmeister]

How has this thread turned into a discussion about Alien Hybridization lol??

Anyway, i just finished listening to most of the show (got about 5 minutes left). My favourite part of the show was definately the excellent British accent impression from Paul "WELCOME TO OUR COUNTRY MATES!"

You sounded just like my American Uni mates when they tried to do an english accent. Why is it that all Americans and Candians who do an english impression either sound like:
A) A world war 2 RAF pilot
B) Australian (in this case I think Paul sounded like a mixture of the two)

Having said that, the only thing I know about Canada is what i have learnt from the TV series 'Due South'... I really wanted to be a mounty when i was a kid, it was my favourite show!!

 

[Kevin Daly]

How has this thread turned into a discussion about Alien Hybridization lol??

Anyway, i just finished listening to most of the show (got about 5 minutes left). My favourite part of the show was definately the excellent British accent impression from Paul "WELCOME TO OUR COUNTRY MATES!"

You sounded just like my American Uni mates when they tried to do an english accent. Why is it that all Americans and Candians who do an english impression either sound like:
A) A world war 2 RAF pilot
B) Australian (in this case I think Paul sounded like a mixture of the two)

Having said that, the only thing I know about Canada is what i have learnt from the TV series 'Due South'... I really wanted to be a mounty when i was a kid, it was my favourite show!!

The really funny thing is that when they try to do an Australian accent, they do Cockney instead.
On a particularly bad day, the Dick Van Dyke version from Mary Poppins.

 

[Gareth]

The only things I know about Canada are (in order of appearance/importance):

a) Degrassi Junior High
b) Terrence and Phillip
c) Paul Kimball

...all mixed up in a Canada stew in my mind.

 

[PhantomAce]

Just finished listening the episode. I am intrigued by your time travel thoughts on ghosts/spirits/UFOS.

After reading a number of Michio Kaku's books and Marie D Jones book PSIience I have begun to embrace this theory more and more. Especially the multidimensional universe theory that Kaku discusses often.

It is certainly plausible that some of the ghost and or UFO's case's could be explained by this theory.

Wonderful show.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Anyway, i just finished listening to most of the show (got about 5 minutes left). My favourite part of the show was definately the excellent British accent impression from Paul "WELCOME TO OUR COUNTRY MATES!"

You sounded just like my American Uni mates when they tried to do an english accent. Why is it that all Americans and Candians who do an english impression either sound like:
A) A world war 2 RAF pilot
B) Australian (in this case I think Paul sounded like a mixture of the two)

I lived in Scotland for a year, and spent a month traveling about the UK, and to this day, I still can't get an accent right off the top of my head, although if I plan to do it I can handle a passably Beatle-esque Liverpudlian accent.

Having said that, the only thing I know about Canada is what i have learnt from the TV series 'Due South'... I really wanted to be a mounty when i was a kid, it was my favourite show!!

Been there, done that!

 

[Paul Kimball]

The only things I know about Canada are (in order of appearance/importance):

a) Degrassi Junior High
b) Terrence and Phillip
c) Paul Kimball

...all mixed up in a Canada stew in my mind.

It's called Mully and Sculder Stew, and its available at fine restaurants everywhere in Canada. When it comes to the stew, I'm the meat, and Holly is the spicy gravy.

Hmm... that sounds vaguely inappropriate.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Just finished listening the episode. I am intrigued by your time travel thoughts on ghosts/spirits/UFOS.

After reading a number of Michio Kaku's books and Marie D Jones book PSIience I have begun to embrace this theory more and more. Especially the multidimensional universe theory that Kaku discusses often.

It is certainly plausible that some of the ghost and or UFO's case's could be explained by this theory.

Wonderful show.

Thanks.

The time travel angle really intrigues me - it could either be a technological achievement, thousands of years from the future (or past!!), or it could be some sort of naturally occurring temporal phenomenon that opens a gateway, whether controlled / understood by people or not. Regardless, it seems as plausible an explanation for UFOs, or even ghosts, as anything else. In the case of UFOs, I would say that it seems even more plausible than the ETH - our future friends would have a reason to be here on a regular basis - to study us. As a historian, I wish I had the kind of technology that would allow me to roam around in the past on field trips!

Paul

 

[Gareth]

It's called Mully and Sculder Stew, and its available at fine restaurants everywhere in Canada. When it comes to the stew, I'm the meat, and Holly is the spicy gravy.

Hmm... that sounds vaguely inappropriate.

Youre trying to test the Paracast boards members self control arent ya?

Throwin' up a sitter like that. I aint gonna bite.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Youre trying to test the Paracast boards members self control arent ya?

Throwin' up a sitter like that. I aint gonna bite.

Biting is great, so long as both of you know the safety word.

 

[Kevin Daly]

It's called Mully and Sculder Stew, and its available at fine restaurants everywhere in Canada. When it comes to the stew, I'm the meat, and Holly is the spicy gravy.

Hmm... that sounds vaguely inappropriate.

For the first time in my life I envy mashed potato.

<hastily changes subject to avert a slapping>

 

[Ezechiel]

I agree with much of that, but hybridisation with a truly alien species still makes absolutely no sense: forget all the Star Trek Happy Families With Aliens stuff: as I've said before, you have more in common genetically with a mushroom than with an alien, and a Hell of a lot more in common with a fruit fly (similar genes in similar places doing similar things).

At their level of evolution, I'd kind of like to assume that they're able to decode DNA assemblies and extirpate the survival strategies that the human organism has adopted. The idea would be to synthetize the information into a solution for your specie.

The strategies contained in DNA are the result of 100,000's of years of evolution and adaptation to earths' environments.

If I was a carbon-based organism in need of a new home planet, existing life-forms (especially sentient) are a tremendous time-saving advantage in preparing yourself for an alien planet such as earth

Abduction anyone LOL

 

[hollystevens]

For the first time in my life I envy mashed potato.

<hastily changes="" subject="" to="" avert="" a="" slapping="">

I envy mashed potatoes all the time! They're delightfully fluffy with mashy goodness... but oh my... I turn my back for one minute. Paul, I blame you. And rightly so.

My apologies for not being around more guys, I've been doing some research for the UK trip. But some of the questions you've brought up, and been discussing, surrounding the possibility of ghosts/aliens in relation to time travel are really fascinating. There's a really great clip with Michio Kaku where he discusses there theoretical possibility of time travel. It's awesome! Hope you enjoy!





</hastily>

 

[hollystevens]

At their level of evolution, I'd kind of like to assume that they're able to decode DNA assemblies and extirpate the survival strategies that the human organism has adopted. The idea would be to synthetize the information into a solution for your specie.

The strategies contained in DNA are the result of 100,000's of years of evolution and adaptation to earths' environments.

If I was a carbon-based organism in need of a new home planet, existing life-forms (especially sentient) are a tremendous time-saving advantage in preparing yourself for an alien planet such as earth

Abduction anyone LOL

This is a very interesting theory. If an alien culture wanted to take over our planet as their new home, it would make sense that they would study the current inhabitants. However, I would think that any culture that is advanced enough for time travel and DNA synthesis/replication, to the point that they would be able to replicate our evolutionary advances, would probably be able to terraform the planet to match they're own biological needs. Why restructure their cellular makeup to mimic our own if they could just recreate the living standards that they're accustomed to?

Now as carbon based life-forms, they're genetic make-up wouldn't likely differ that much from our own. But any DNA manipulation done in order to place the being amongst our level of evolution would likely result in lifeforms identical in appearance to what we are now. So if that is a possibility, that aliens are abducting humans to learn about their genetic make-up so that they can recreate our human form in order to live here. What makes them alien? If the cellular composition is the same, how are we more human then they?

 

[Kevin Daly]

This is a very interesting theory. If an alien culture wanted to take over our planet as their new home, it would make sense that they would study the current inhabitants. However, I would think that any culture that is advanced enough for time travel and DNA synthesis/replication, to the point that they would be able to replicate our evolutionary advances, would probably be able to terraform the planet to match they're own biological needs. Why restructure their cellular makeup to mimic our own if they could just recreate the living standards that they're accustomed to?

Now as carbon based life-forms, they're genetic make-up wouldn't likely differ that much from our own. But any DNA manipulation done in order to place the being amongst our level of evolution would likely result in lifeforms identical in appearance to what we are now. So if that is a possibility, that aliens are abducting humans to learn about their genetic make-up so that they can recreate our human form in order to live here. What makes them alien? If the cellular composition is the same, how are we more human then they?

There should be a lot of different ways to arrive at a similar result - even among creatures related to us, the octopus eye as you know is a good example of how structures can be evolved which owing to their common purpose have a striking superficial resemblance, but where the actual implementation is quite different in many ways.
You would hope that a civilisation able to cross the void between the stars (or wherever) would have advanced its medical science beyond our level of "let's try some of this stuff and see what it does", to the point where they apply deliberate design. I honestly think the gap between our biology and what they start with - if they are not in fact human descendants - would be such that there would be less effort and potential error for them in designing adaptations to their existing biology to fit the local environment than in attempting to harmonise it with our alien biology.
(This would be especially so of course if they just wanted to reverse adaptations to a generations-long space voyage - but I think I'm well within the minority in being prepared to consider that possibility. And even I'm not that keen on it).
Any interest in human biology might be more along the lines of "What environmental challenges are they adapted to and why?". After all, just because evolution has arrived at certain solutions for us doesn't mean they're the best solutions - they just have to be good enough, otherwise for instance we wouldn't get bad backs and we wouldn't have a blind spot (back to the octopus again).
On the other hand, there's a reason I keep contradicting myself - I just make this stuff up as I go along...

 

[Ezechiel]

However, I would think that any culture that is advanced enough for time travel and DNA synthesis/replication, to the point that they would be able to replicate our evolutionary advances, would probably be able to terraform the planet to match they're own biological needs. Why restructure their cellular makeup to mimic our own if they could just recreate the living standards that they're accustomed to?

That would mean that their original home planet was at about the same distance from their star, gravity/mass of the planet was about the same... which would be very surprising. We're barely starting to study the effect of gravity on cellular evolution... not to mention different levels of solar radiation. Even if they terra-formed the planet, I'm not sure they could survive without a body suit.

IMHO... to an alien, a home world is a world where they can live and continue their evolution process without a survival suit.

I've got serious problems with time-travel... You're all forgetting space displacement. The sun is rotating around the galactic core at breakneck speeds and the universe is expanding . If you were able to travel back in time, how do you also control the space dimension to guarantee that you're still in the same spot and not light years away in empty space a 100 years ago ?!

Now as carbon based life-forms, they're genetic make-up wouldn't likely differ that much from our own. But any DNA manipulation done in order to place the being amongst our level of evolution would likely result in lifeforms identical in appearance to what we are now. So if that is a possibility, that aliens are abducting humans to learn about their genetic make-up so that they can recreate our human form in order to live here. What makes them alien? If the cellular composition is the same, how are we more human then they?

They wouldn't necessarily adopt the same human form. As an example, I'd be interested in how skin is made up to protect from UV rays and if an alteration to my external envelope can be made that uses some of the human solution. Coming from a red dwarf star, I'd be adjusting my eyes to be functional under earths photonic environment.... etc.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090409-sm-reddwarf-life.html
I'd be tempted to think that aliens would never consider terraforming planet earth which is already a proven stable solution for life (with its current mass/gravity, distance from star, radiation levels). It would be easier to adapt yourself to its environment (if you had the required tech skills of course) than re-building an untested life-bearing planet from scratch.

Following this line of thought... lol. I can understand why an alien civilization would interfere in human affairs if it is has vested interests in the earth and has begun efforts to adapt itself to earths parameters. An eventual migration to our planet would be seriously compromised if we nuked our planet to smittereens

 

[Paul Kimball]

Don't do it Sculder - don't get sucked into the UFO thing!!!

 

[Kevin Daly]

Just to be consistent with my commitment to inconsistency and self-contradiction:

If you assume a good supply of Earth-like planets (which seems now reasonable) in decent orbits, and that a reasonable proportion of those have plate tectonics, good magnetic fields and don't wobble too much....

On many of those multicellular life will never evolve (or won't have evolved yet). While that means a crap atmosphere, it does mean no trouble from the locals (advanced or not).

Of those that develop complex life, many won't produce an intelligent(-ish) species, or won't have yet.
Those are also good candidates for colonisation in many ways.

Of those that do produce intelligent life, there's no guarantee that they'll ever progress beyond a Stone Age level of technology (after all, our species has been around for almost 200 000 years and for most of that time were hunter-gatherers without metal-working). Such a species would not have had the resources to do too much damage to its environment and would probably not be particularly numerous. So not too much of a problem for colonisers.

And so on...

My point being that Earth is not necessarily a particularly good target for colonisation.
(Oooh! Idea! Who'll be the first crackpot to suggest that George Bush's demented environmental policies were actually a cunning plan to save the world by making sure the aliens wouldn't want it?)