April 3, 2016 — Greg Bishop

[Wade]

I thought Greg's read on the Simonton/Eagle River case was very intriguing. If these encounters are indeed meant to make us think and their modeus operandi seems to be evolving (or maybe devolving) I am a little concerned what will be the next step to get our attention.

 

[Burnt State]

I thought Greg's read on the Simonton/Eagle River case was very intriguing. If these encounters are indeed meant to make us think and their modeus operandi seems to be evolving (or maybe devolving) I am a little concerned what will be the next step to get our attention.

What do you think might be on the way?

 

[Wade]

I should say I'm not basing this on simple sightings but actual reported contacts. It's just that in recalling how these experiences used to be recounted over the decades at first they were somewhat cordial and inviting then got admonishing and preachy, then intrusive.

Taking into account that a number of these accounts are the product of a vivid imagination and/or could be the result of ingested substances there still is an undeniable change. If one wants to consider these contacts change (maybe molds itself to?) as result of the changing culture , the reports seem to be on the road to becoming more sinister which would seem to be in line with our culture becoming more sinister, although I guess that could be subjective. Do you suppose there could be some cyclical feedback loop in play here?

As it is though as I've mentioned many times I have "believability" issues with the crop of abduction encounters as far as their code of conduct if not their motive, not the least of which is even if one wants to consider there is some kind of genetic experimentation or cataloging going on why start only a couple of decades ago?, seems reasonable that this should have be a long term project stretching back generations ago.

I was thinking a few days ago that the methods used in abduction reports really are closer to human tech and symptomatic of human action so maybe earlier encounters with beings in silver suits and flight overalls are as well, that is someone may have dressed like what they thought a target of opportunity would perceive a man from outer space would look like.

Regardless, whomever or whatever is responsible for these encounters they seem to be turning it up a notch over the decades for some reason and what would come next after being put on a table and poked and prodded while you are alert and conscious, I'll bet it won't be dinner and a movie.

 

[Wade]

Here's a shower thought for you...I literally just thought of this while in the shower...when Mengle was operating on all those poor souls in the concentration camps it wasn't just because he was a sadist, though maybe he was that too, he was trying his hand at genetic manipulation to the best he could given the thought and tools he had at the time.
Maybe this is still going on but there would be no need using vivesection or mutilation given the current tech and the former intrusive way would be frowned upon. There is a history of human involvement in the past so it isn't so far out to think it could be occuring now.

 

[spacebrother]

Greg, since you're responding to posts here, do you have a table of contents for your new book posted somewhere online? It would also be nice to read the first paragraph for each chapter or essay or a brief description of its subject matter.

Also, why is your comments section at RM not taking new comments for Cassidy or Aubeck? There is a weird error message that is given, and the new comment is never posted. This error is given after passing the "robot test" and attempting to post, but the comment message still does not post.

You can see the table of contents at the Amazon page that just went up 2 days ago.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0692635025/?tag=rockoids-20

Sorry, I need to reformat the RM page. This is a project for next week, when I'm not trying to format the Kindle version of the new book.

 

[spacebrother]

Greg, is the farmers market you were at the one on Fairfax (Sunday flea market) do you have a booth you are setting up for the time being?

I was at the actual Farmer's Market at 3rd and Fairfax, just having lunch.

 

[spacebrother]

Regarding Greg's upstairs spook was Jim Mosley alive at the time ?

Yes he was, but I don't think he had anything to do with it, if that is what you are implying.

 

[spacebrother]

i always enjoy having Greg on the show as he's an exceptional conversationalist about the subject matter. it's always a pleasure to have him expound just on his own ideas. i was worried at first that we weren't going to delve too deeply into the book, It Defies Language, but this episode did manage to look at a bunch of topics with a good flavour of what it offers.

The discussion about Dale Spaur who lost job, family, wife and then i believe we heard fell down an elevator shaft and broke his spine - it was a deconstructed life to be certain. I believe though the Saucer's name was Floyd, was it not? Dale had a relationship with the saucer that lasted long after his initial sighting. What are we to make of this?

We are our own technological wizards, immature at the craft but we work at it. Greg reminds us that thinking divergently about the phenomena holds the best possibility of being able to understand it a little better. So far the tried and true methods have yielded little in way of actual physical evidence up against the incredible number of sightings. That fact alone should make us think more carefully about what is actually transpiring in the skies that are seen inside our minds with strange objects flying around in them and with weird humanoids that walk out to collect a few samples.

More discussions, please, about this kind of offbeat and creative manner of thinking about the subject, as the field needs a new direction given its lack of accomplishments over the decades. The only really interesting thing to come out of ufology has been the creative thinking about the subject: Keel, Vallee, Michel, Tonnies, Bishop, Duensing all are truly creative thinkers and only two are still alive. We need to grow this capacity. It continues to be positive to hear about RPJ being promoted on the show as well, for he really represents that next generation of UFO thinkers who are in the wings waiting to spring out a whole new way of thinking about the field as Tonnies did.

Thank you for all the really positive comments and understanding where I'm coming from as well as being able to take the discussion further.

Really great article on Spaur: HE CHASED A FLYING SAUCER, NOW HIS LIFE IS SHATTERED | Gangrey.com

I should not be put in the same sentence with those other people!

You and RPJ and others will take things in directions I haven't thought of. I can see it happening already. The fact that I have to stop and read some of your ideas over more than once is a testament to their complexity and usefulness.

Sorry to be so short, but I have a deadline for the kindle edition of the book that is due in 2 days, and I guess I have to be in a "zone" to think more deeply about these crazy things.

 

[spacebrother]

i always enjoy having Greg on the show as he's an exceptional conversationalist about the subject matter. it's always a pleasure to have him expound just on his own ideas. i was worried at first that we weren't going to delve too deeply into the book, It Defies Language, but this episode did manage to look at a bunch of topics with a good flavour of what it offers. I've been reading it this past couple weeks and it really is what Chris O'Brien described it as in ATP. It is an exceptional and important book in the field. People need to pick it up as it offers such a wide variety of insights into the phenomena and covers quite a breadth of history and the issues that are to be found in the wild world of ufo's and paranormality. it's a very concentrated book that is easy to digest and yet totally thought provoking.

What makes it very accessible is that it is told in short bites, briefer essays collected together under a number of different themes. The theory section is my favourite, where he throws a lot of things at the wall to see what sticks. The ideas around co-creation, UFO's as a cosmic art project, and UFO's as a social deconstruction cue are all worth pursuit. We heard a little about that deconstruction on this past episode. The discussion about Dale Spaur who lost job, family, wife and then i believe we heard fell down an elevator shaft and broke his spine - it was a deconstructed life to be certain. I believe though the Saucer's name was Floyd, was it not? Dale had a relationship with the saucer that lasted long after his initial sighting. What are we to make of this?

How is it the UFO can have such a profound impact on witnesses? Is this witness specific and more about people who are already experiencing some kind of personal deconstruction and destabilization taking place as Bruce Duensing suggested or is it simply about proximity and the superlative nature of the experience of being close to something so wildly impossible. Maybe these things really are from a realm so vastly different than our own that the Nuts and Bolts concept doesn't even come close to beginning to be able to explain what they are.

It was great to be reminded of a couple of ufological points on this episode. Flying Saucers Are Here To Make Us Think - and so they are, and so they do. There's something incredibly creative about that whole idea; UFO's are a kind of stimulus to human curiosity. This always gets our imagination flowing and in this way the UFO strikes me as a kind of invitation of sorts, not necessarily to get off planet as Chris often suggests but perhaps more about just being able to imagine the different possibilities of what reality actually is or learning to better understand our own limits and how to overcome them, as we often attempt and succeed at doing. We were also reminded how important is to think oddly and divergently about the phenomena - i wanted to hear even more about those modes on this show.

We are our own technological wizards, immature at the craft but we work at it. Greg reminds us that thinking divergently about the phenomena holds the best possibility of being able to understand it a little better. So far the tried and true methods have yielded little in way of actual physical evidence up against the incredible number of sightings. That fact alone should make us think more carefully about what is actually transpiring in the skies that are seen inside our minds with strange objects flying around in them and with weird humanoids that walk out to collect a few samples.

Greg's closing chapter on Asemic writing and Alien writing is classic Misterioso strangeness and worth the read on its own. I can understand why the book closes with this as this really is our own creative response to the phenomena and is a kind of collaborative product that descends directly from automatic writing and Dadaist art practices of the automatic artist, in touch with something beyond themselves and relaying their received transmission back to the rest of us. More discussions, please, about this kind of offbeat and creative manner of thinking about the subject, as the field needs a new direction given its lack of accomplishments over the decades. The only really interesting thing to come out of ufology has been the creative thinking about the subject: Keel, Vallee, Michel, Tonnies, Bishop, Duensing all are truly creative thinkers and only two are still alive. We need to grow this capacity. It continues to be positive to hear about RPJ being promoted on the show as well, for he really represents that next generation of UFO thinkers who are in the wings waiting to spring out a whole new way of thinking about the field as Tonnies did.

Thank you so much for this thoughtful review and commentary. "Burnt" is one of the few people who take the time and make the effort to try and understand what I am saying and is actually more clear about what I am saying than I am at some points!

BTW, I am near to posting an interview he and RPJ conducted with me about the book at Radio Misterioso. Will post here when it is ready.