Jimi
Skilled Investigator
I personally really enjoyed listening to you bloviate Don (learned a new word today
)Fascinating show and great insight from both you and the Reverend.
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April 8, 2018 — Rev. Dr. Barry Downing with Don Ecker
- Thread starter Gene Steinberg
- Start date
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)Fascinating show and great insight from both you and the Reverend.
I personally really enjoyed listening to you bloviate Don (learned a new word today
Fascinating show and great insight from both you and the Reverend.
Yeah, can be hard having all those data points and information jammed in me ... gotta find a venue to release that stuff. LOL !!
Decker
My own rule of thumb: never take seriously the claim of a human individual who cannot possibly know whereof he/she attempts to speak.
Enjoyed and appreciated your whole post, @TDSR.
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
Before I make my first post as a new member, I just want to thank Gene, Chris, and all the guests and hosts who make THE PARACAST such a great show.
Fascinating topics, excellent dialogue, and not one once of “fear” about challenging guests on their often controversial opinions of the paranormal and UFOs in particular.
Regarding the broadcast featuring guests Rev. Dr. Barry Downing and Mr. Don Ecker, I feel it necessary to direct listeners (and forum readers) to some rock solid evidence that Mr. Sitchin was completely wrong about his conclusions.
During the show, Mr. Ecker (Don) stated that he had yet to see any convincing evidence that Mr. Sitchin was wrong about his theories on ancient astronauts, Nibiru, etc.
Well contrary to Don’s comments (no offense intended Don), it most certainly exists for those willing to find it - but you’re not going to find it in books or papers written by ancient astronaut proponents or those UFO believers who have no interest in ancient archeology, Mesopotamian religions, ancient languages or Christianity.
In classic and scholarly fashion, everything you ever wanted to know about why Mr. Sitchin was (is) wrong about his conclusions can be found here (link below). Dr. Michael Heiser is a foremost Biblical scholar (and conservative Christian) who is an expert in ancient Semitic languages.
Home Page
Dr. Heiser is the leading expert on WHY Sitchin’s theories are incorrect, and a simple Google or YouTube search will provide you with plenty of Dr. Heiser’s expert opinions on this matter.
I might also add that Mr. Sitchin was NOT an “expert” in ancient languages as Mr. Ecker had stated, but rather a “self-taught” and self-proclaimed expert based on his years of personal study. There is a difference.
And for all those who insist Mr. Sitchin was 100% correct about all of his conclusions — or even 50% accurate — you might want to read Dr. Heiser’s “Open Letter” to the UFO community about the evidence which they would need to produce in order to prove Sitchin is (was) correct. That can be found here:
Open Letter
In any case, once again great show and keep up the good work. And no offense Don, as I’m just clarifying the answer to your broadcast comments.
Fascinating topics, excellent dialogue, and not one once of “fear” about challenging guests on their often controversial opinions of the paranormal and UFOs in particular.
Regarding the broadcast featuring guests Rev. Dr. Barry Downing and Mr. Don Ecker, I feel it necessary to direct listeners (and forum readers) to some rock solid evidence that Mr. Sitchin was completely wrong about his conclusions.
During the show, Mr. Ecker (Don) stated that he had yet to see any convincing evidence that Mr. Sitchin was wrong about his theories on ancient astronauts, Nibiru, etc.
Well contrary to Don’s comments (no offense intended Don), it most certainly exists for those willing to find it - but you’re not going to find it in books or papers written by ancient astronaut proponents or those UFO believers who have no interest in ancient archeology, Mesopotamian religions, ancient languages or Christianity.
In classic and scholarly fashion, everything you ever wanted to know about why Mr. Sitchin was (is) wrong about his conclusions can be found here (link below). Dr. Michael Heiser is a foremost Biblical scholar (and conservative Christian) who is an expert in ancient Semitic languages.
Home Page
Dr. Heiser is the leading expert on WHY Sitchin’s theories are incorrect, and a simple Google or YouTube search will provide you with plenty of Dr. Heiser’s expert opinions on this matter.
I might also add that Mr. Sitchin was NOT an “expert” in ancient languages as Mr. Ecker had stated, but rather a “self-taught” and self-proclaimed expert based on his years of personal study. There is a difference.
And for all those who insist Mr. Sitchin was 100% correct about all of his conclusions — or even 50% accurate — you might want to read Dr. Heiser’s “Open Letter” to the UFO community about the evidence which they would need to produce in order to prove Sitchin is (was) correct. That can be found here:
Open Letter
In any case, once again great show and keep up the good work. And no offense Don, as I’m just clarifying the answer to your broadcast comments.
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
We should remember that we all live in a “Post-Christian” era, and hence many of the Biblical truths are dismissed as “irrelevant” or “impossible” while simultaneously being replaced by things believed but unproven.
fastwalker
Skilled Investigator
Don, I love the way you talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way...LOL I especially love to hear you bring forth facts and catch many flat footed, I find myself laughing out loud, which can be problematic when I am at work listening to the podcast...Thanks for your life time of hard work.
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
Wouldn't the Word of God be the best source to make a case? If not then why not? Do you need an extra authority to sanction an ancient text to be the "absolute truth." What if you were born in a different culture--such as in Hinduism, Buddhism (Hinduism stripped for export to China) or Taoism? Would you ask the same questions? Only perhaps you might ask why the guest didn't establish the Rig Veda or Upanishads as certified by some great authority....
Ask yourself...what makes you accept a holy text as "authoritative"...or "authenticated" truth...did someone teach you this or did you find it on your own? And if you found it on your own, then what "authority" would you claim within yourself to accept the "truth" as is?
These are questions I've asked myself over and over again...the more I ask the more I find that "authority" from on high is very much missing. To prove this to yourself you only have to find one contradiction in the "word of God" and you will be free...
Ask yourself why God commanded the chosen not to make any graven image of the likeness of any thing on heaven or earth...and then a few chapters laters commanded Moses to create graven images of cherubim on the ark of the most holy in the tabernacle.
That is just one of many contradictions in this "word of God"...find others and free yourself from the mental bondage you have accepted from your childhood.
Sorry if I offend...but you seem lost.
Edit: Michael Allen is clearly had too many glasses of wine above...he should probably refrain from posting in altered states of mind.
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Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
Stichin was wrong for the right reason...he (like Daniken) was sloppy...very sloppy in their presentation of the material. There are core truths in Stichin (Planet X is not one of them)...
The core truth...in my humble opinion...is that our planet and human beings living on it may have encountered ET from time to time...and they may have left very subtle traces in our development (no not genetics...but perhaps seeding powerful memes to help guide us to unify the diverse sources of being into unity ) ...the Axial period between 800 to 200 BCE and the 2000 years of human technological and cultural development after many millenia of the same conditions may need further study and explanation...go search for "Emerald Tablet Alchemy and Stellar Nucleosynthesis" and you'll find my hastily written thesis that may shine some light on these questions.
O
O'Rilly
Guest
For this particular seeming "contradiction" it would probably help if you could read Hebrew:
לֹא תַעֲשֶׂה לְךָ פֶסֶל
You shall not make "for yourself" (לְךָ) an image. In contrast, the cherubim were commanded by the Almighty, but they were not from the imagination of the Israelites for themselves, if you accept the narrative.
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
Well, people who really don’t study the Bible shouldn’t make themselves out to be “experts” on the Bible. I always have to chuckle when I hear UFO experts claim the Bible is filled with UFOs and aliens - pure rubbish.
Your point above is comparing apples to oranges, but it would take a deeper understanding of the text to understand this.
The command to avoid idolatry through the deliberate (and un-requested) creation and worship of “graven images” is specifically focused on the fact that societies surrounding the Jews (specifically the Egyptians) did exactly this. God is telling the Jews not to follow this tradition which they were exposed to while in captivity.
The second is a God-given command to create something that is an earthly representative of God himself, requested by God himself. There’s a difference. The angels on the Ark are representative of the Angels that guard God’s heavenly thrown. They are simply adornment not symbols of worship unto themselves.
More importantly perhaps is the fact that the Ark of the Covenant was not “worshiped” by masses of people or prayed to as if itself had power — only God was worshiped.
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
You can’t really claim Sitchin and Daniken were correct because they were sloppy. The truth is both men are not really experts in ancient Mesopotamian history, culture, and languages. They’re wrong because they interpret archeology and anthropology improperly.
The claim that Aliens probably tinkered with our DNA, or even if they didn’t somehow inserted cultural memes to teach us something is equally as weak. There’s no real evidence of this whatsoever. It’s all hypothetical based on personal viewpoints that indicate confusion about ancient human history.
10 years ago I had a flip phone. Today I have an iPhone 7 — one is far superior to the other technologically speaking. Am I to assume aliens, not humans, are responsible?
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
What makes you believe we don’t?
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
All according to an authority you have presumed in the text prior to reading it--so no I wasn't putting myself up as a "biblical expert." I was addressing the problem of authority...(whose?)
Many religious people assume that "God's word" is an infallible and complete authority -- when you ask them why, they point to the text and say "here is the word of God and with a deeper understanding you will understand it." (again, by what authority?)
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
Is that an authoritative interpretation? Who did you consult to resolve this interpretation? Yourself?
Human's have made their own books into idols...they worship words.
MA Sober: sure...that is correct, but irrelevant here...Two drink Michael assumes that his audience has accepted these premises and has build a nice little strawman to kick down.
Edit: Present company excluded...I was ranting last night. I need to put a flag on these messages that indicates my current mood
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Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
I have been meaning to subscribe to DMR and hear more of his bloviations...I think it would be eductional
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
Read what real experts say and you’ll understand.
B.Bell
Skilled Investigator
[QUOTE="Many religious people assume that "God's word" is an infallible and complete authority -- when you ask them why, they point to the text and say "here is the word of God and with a deeper understanding you will understand it." (again, by what authority?)[/QUOTE]
By equal token, by what authority do you claim it couldn’t be?
I’ll answer your question bearing in mind that this thread is really about UFOs and what two guest speakers think of them through the eyes of their own religious experiences. There’s no attempt on my part to proselytize on this forum.
Your question on “authority” is a common one. It’s offered frequently by atheists — but surprisingly only towards Christians.
Atheists seem to ignore Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witness, Buddhism, etc. while preferring only to challenge Christianity. Why is this? Perhaps because they recognize the Biblical message and it’s real authority but desire to refute it because admitting so may require a change in lifestyle and mindset.
A view that affirms the Bible’s divine inspiration and total truthfulness is of little value if a person has no commitment to the Bible’s complete and absolute authority in one’s personal life. In other words if you reject it why do you demand any proof at all?
Any discussion of Biblical authority must of course begin with God Himself, for all authority is located in God. He is the authority by which I can say this.
God has made Himself known in the Scriptures. Revelation and authority are two sides of the same reality. God declares His authority in His revelation—His inspired Word—and God alone is the ultimate source of his own authority.
But if you need more, then perhaps these facts may answer your question:
By equal token, by what authority do you claim it couldn’t be?
I’ll answer your question bearing in mind that this thread is really about UFOs and what two guest speakers think of them through the eyes of their own religious experiences. There’s no attempt on my part to proselytize on this forum.
Your question on “authority” is a common one. It’s offered frequently by atheists — but surprisingly only towards Christians.
Atheists seem to ignore Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witness, Buddhism, etc. while preferring only to challenge Christianity. Why is this? Perhaps because they recognize the Biblical message and it’s real authority but desire to refute it because admitting so may require a change in lifestyle and mindset.
A view that affirms the Bible’s divine inspiration and total truthfulness is of little value if a person has no commitment to the Bible’s complete and absolute authority in one’s personal life. In other words if you reject it why do you demand any proof at all?
Any discussion of Biblical authority must of course begin with God Himself, for all authority is located in God. He is the authority by which I can say this.
God has made Himself known in the Scriptures. Revelation and authority are two sides of the same reality. God declares His authority in His revelation—His inspired Word—and God alone is the ultimate source of his own authority.
But if you need more, then perhaps these facts may answer your question:
- The Bible is a composite of different books written by many people over a very long period of time. The books include eyewitness accounts of historical events chronicling God’s plan for mankind through His people, the Israelites.
- Non-Christian sources and archaeology confirm these historical facts as written in the Bible. They aren’t made up.
- The Bible is the oldest known “book” of assembled ancient writings that have been transcribed over and over again through the millennia with intense focus on maintaining consistent accuracy.
- The authors wrote to different audiences for different reasons — sometimes through varying perspectives. Hence their writing methods intentionally vary (letters, songs, poems, genealogies, testimonials, etc.).
- The authors are real people many of whom would be considered credible even in our age. They are eye witnesses who in some cases number in the thousands.
- The Gospels include embarrassing accounts, like the disciples failing at times to understand Jesus’ teachings. Those testimonies would not have been used by those who called Him Lord if they weren’t true.
- If the authors had wanted to write a fictional “best seller” for their contemporaries to “buy” hook line and sinker, they would have never placed women at the forefront of key revelations since their patriarchal society would have instantly rejected the book as bogus — and yet they did anyway.
- God used the Bible’s authors to convey His message, guiding them through visions, dreams and their own experiences. God is His own authority.
- Prophecy - the Old Testament books contain numerous prophesies which all came true exactly as claimed. Not fiction or guesswork. Not by squeezing something into an old story to make it fit — but real events perfectly described centuries before they actually happened.
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
"By equal token, by what authority do you claim it couldn’t be?"
Complete the sentence: "..do you claim it couldn't be [WHAT??]" A person inventing or defending the imaginary entity (i.e. God, Cosmic Authority) has the burden of proof.
So far authorities presented are (1) yourself, (2) your interpretation of ancient scriptures and (3) other "experts" ...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679778063/?tag=rockoids-20
Edit: Not that "authority" is needed here--but it seems to me that believers use double-speak with regard to substantiating their claims in scriptural authority vs. their own acceptance of the same which allows their own brains to accept the authority. We can't have it both ways.
Complete the sentence: "..do you claim it couldn't be [WHAT??]" A person inventing or defending the imaginary entity (i.e. God, Cosmic Authority) has the burden of proof.
So far authorities presented are (1) yourself, (2) your interpretation of ancient scriptures and (3) other "experts" ...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679778063/?tag=rockoids-20
Edit: Not that "authority" is needed here--but it seems to me that believers use double-speak with regard to substantiating their claims in scriptural authority vs. their own acceptance of the same which allows their own brains to accept the authority. We can't have it both ways.
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Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
Good point. I don't mean to discriminate--what I say applies to all religions.