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are vaccines safe?

are vaccines safe?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

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Errr ummm sometimes I wish I didn't say anything in the first place...

In my mind what you believe is the same as reality, so I mean it when I say that I am sorry that you think that.
Who am I to tell you otherwise?

I am not sure this is the same for everyone, but issues like this seem to effect my 'lizard' brain as in I act (in this case write) instinctively without thinking things through.
The reason that I asked the question about the Latin word for cow, was because I was reading about a completely unrelated subject and discovered that it was Vacca.
This somehow triggered a connection in my head between the words Vacca and Vaccination, and a childhood memory of being 'herded' into the sports hall for my BCG skin test.
I was and probably still am quite disobedient, but I can clearly remember that I wanted to have it, even though I was deeply suspicious.

Anyway I should have remembered to look up the word (it's etymology) rather than jumping to the conclusion that it had anything to do with 'behaviour' I now understand:

"Vaccine"
late 18th century: from Latin vaccinus, from vacca ‘cow’ (because of the early use of the cowpox virus against smallpox)

Just to be clear I had jumped to the conclusion that Vaccine meant something like: "of Cows' maybe a bit like the word 'Bovine'.
I then thought about man's relationship with cattle and also 'herd' behaviour in general.
Which I coincidentally been doing a lot of thinking about at the time:

Sensory Deprivation and UFOs

I should have also read the previous posts in this thread before chiming in.

There is one quick way to make yourself look foolish, that is to comment on things you do not really understand, I am sorry for any upset or disrespect my ignorance of your situation caused.

It is easy for me to give an honest answer about if I or my family would get Vaccinated and that is yes. But when it comes to other people it raises extraordinarily difficult questions, Do I want everyone to be immunised? yes. Should they have a choice? no/yes/probably, I don't know. I can't truthfully answer because I am torn between my belief in choice and my belief in medicine. I feel able to make that choice for myself, but not for anyone else.

Would I trust the 'state' in such matters? 5/10
would I trust a Doctor (medical advice) 9/10
Would I trust a combination of the two 7/10


I am basing this on where I live and my personal experience of medicine/medical treatment.

Best wishes

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Doctors know very little about vaccines, their safety and how, when or where to report vaccine injuries. They and the government only go by what vaccine makers tell them. The makers have repeatedly lied so trusting them or a Doctor is foolish.
Mumps and Measles are best left untreated so a person AND the herd can receive life long immunity.
Vaccines for both are ineffective, can shed thru body fluids or feces and require lifelong boosters of undesirable ingredients that should not be objected into your blood stream.
Polio vaccines are horrible and are creating more cases of polio.
 
Look up a skeptical podcast called "Oh No Ross and Carie." They're latest episode addresses the anti-vaxxer movement and they break it down quite nicely. The anti-vaxxers are your typical conspiracy-theory, government-mistrust'ers who attack vaccinations in your usual pseudo-scientific measurements. The chemical compounds in vaccinations are very well known to the medical community. No, your average practicing doctor doesn't know 'why' or 'how' vaccinations work, but at any given point in time they can make a phone call to the manufacturer and find out. People who don't vaccinate need to be moved to an isolated island. Over time, that little problem will work itself out as they all die off from diseases long since-purged from the rest of the world.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3



If you have no kids and want to live in a trailer in the middle of the desert, vaccinations probably aren't needed for you. However, if you have kids...educate yourself on the need for vaccinations and get your kids immunized.

Peace.
 
Look up a skeptical podcast called "Oh No Ross and Carie." They're latest episode addresses the anti-vaxxer movement and they break it down quite nicely. The anti-vaxxers are your typical conspiracy-theory, government-mistrust'ers who attack vaccinations in your usual pseudo-scientific measurements. The chemical compounds in vaccinations are very well known to the medical community. No, your average practicing doctor doesn't know 'why' or 'how' vaccinations work, but at any given point in time they can make a phone call to the manufacturer and find out. People who don't vaccinate need to be moved to an isolated island. Over time, that little problem will work itself out as they all die off from diseases long since-purged from the rest of the world.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3



If you have no kids and want to live in a trailer in the middle of the desert, vaccinations probably aren't needed for you. However, if you have kids...educate yourself on the need for vaccinations and get your kids immunized.

Peace.

Vaccines are unavoidably unsafe. They do not provide lifelong immunity.
Can we agree on those two points then we can move on and prove the rest inaccurate.
 
Vaccinated people and vaccines themselves are what is perpetuating diseases.
This is proven science.


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Autism spectrum disorders may be due to cerebral toxoplasmosis associated with chronic neuroinflammation causing persistent hypercytokinemia that resulted in an increased lipid peroxidation, oxidative stress, and depressed metabolism of endogenous and exogenous substances - ScienceDirect

How common 'cat parasite' gets into human brain and influences human behavior

Its clearly a conspiracy by cats to shift the blame to vaccines.
 
Ok and why is the autism rate now on average 1 in 45 in the USA and 1 in 25 within the Minnesota Somali community who where the most vaccinated population to ever enter the USA. They don't even have a word for autism in their country.


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Asked and answered, ive already showed extensive large scale studys that show autism rates and vaccination rates are NOT related. In one study the rates of Autism went up even as the vaccination rate went down. No link . Zip ,Zero, None Nada.

Cat ownership has gone up though, and thats whats causing the Autism.

Today, about a third of the world's population is infected with toxoplasma, and most of them don't even know it. In healthy people, physical symptoms often don't show up at all, and if they do, they're mild and flu-like. The parasites can mess with the brain too. Several studies have found connections between Toxo and schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, OCD, and aggression

A third of the world population......... Vaccines are a mouses piss in the ocean compared to the threat posed by cats.

They are even warned to stay away from cat litter boxes. Any of these inputs is considered a developmental hazard for unborn babies.

And dont forget cell phones

Cell phones do not cause autism, but they have caused the poor sperm quality which has driven a worldwide autism spike.


Rates of autism were flat around the world during the 1980s. In the 1990s, an autism spike happened in the U.S., U.K., Canada, Japan and Scandinavia. Experts in autism research wrongly concluded there could not be a global environmental exposure that could cause an autism pandemic. So a bogus theory was born: autism rates were always this high, but previous generations weren't smart enough to document autism correctly.Fathers are causing 80% of mutations leading to autism. Men have been the silent carriers of autism for the past 20 years.
Why Autism Happens
 
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My god you are as dumb as a rock. Even the CDC admits the autism vaccine link.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
First tell me why children who dont get vaccinated get autism, what causes Autism in unvaccinated children ?

“I don’t know how this happened,” said his distraught mother, Skye. “We skipped all his vaccinations like our naturopath told us to and he still got autism. I have no idea what to do.”

Unvaccinated child diagnosed with autism, naturopath stumped

'First Ever' Study Comparing Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Children Shows Harm from Vaccines?

Vaccines and Autism
Vaccines do not cause autism.

This statement is supported by the fact that:

  • Over twenty articles refute any connections between the MMR vaccine and autism.
  • Over 100 studies have shown that there is no link between vaccines and autism.
  • A scientific review by the Institute of Medicine, "Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism," concluded that "the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."

  • A report by the Institute of Medicine, "Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality," concluded that "few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines" and that "the evidence shows there are no links between immunization and some serious conditions that have raised concerns, including Type 1 diabetes and autism."
  • Studies that anti-vax folks use to claim a connection between vaccines and autism either have nothing to do with vaccines, nothing to do with autism, or are easily debunked.
  • Andrew Wakefield's study that started this talk couldn't be replicated and was later shown to be both flawed and fraudulent.
  • More and more studies are pointing to a genetic basis for autism and that autism likely occurs before a baby is even born
And since vaccines don't cause autism, it shouldn't be surprising that there are unvaccinated children with autism. The only reason there aren't more is that most parents vaccinate their children, so, of course, most autistic children are going to be vaccinated.


The Wakefield paper published in 1998 was flawed for two reasons:

  1. About 90 percent of children in England received MMR at the time this paper was written. Because MMR is administered at a time when many children are diagnosed with autism, it would be expected that most children with autism would have received an MMR vaccine, and that many would have received the vaccine recently. The observation that some children with autism recently received MMR is, therefore, expected. However, determination of whether MMR causes autism is best made by studying the incidence of autism in both vaccinated and unvaccinated children. This wasn't done.
  2. Although the authors claim that autism is a consequence of intestinal inflammation, intestinal symptoms were observed after, not before, symptoms of autism in all eight cases.
This study was subsequently retracted; in scientific terms, this means that the paper is not part of the scientific record because it was found to be based on scientific misconduct. In this case, the studies were deemed fraudulent and data misrepresented.

The analysis looked at autism rates and MMR vaccination at ages 2, 3, 4 and 5 years. It showed no increased risk of autism with immunization at any age. In fact, autism rates were lower in the vaccinated groups.
No MMR-Autism Link in Large Study of Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated Kids
 
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In April 2017, anti-vaccine groups seemed to have finally gotten what amounted to the Holy Grail for their cause: an allegedly large-scale, peer-reviewed study showing the links between vaccines and autism among a large population of children. Vaccine skeptic groups, who reject the wide body of scientific literature refuting that link between vaccines and autism, have long sought such a study, but they’ve been hampered by practical concerns, most notably the ethical implications of withholding vaccines from a large group of children.

Released to heavy promotional fanfare on anti-vaccine websites and social media, a 24 April 2017 study published by the Journal of Translational Science claimed to be that Grail. The study (titled “Pilot Comparative Study on the Health of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated 6- to 12-Year Old U.S. Children”) neatly solved the problem of withholding vaccines by surveying parents who had already chosen not to vaccinate their children. Using an online survey of 415 mothers of homeschooled children, the study concluded that vaccines can increase the risk of neurological developmental disorders, particularly in cases of preterm birth.

The anti-vaccine website Age of Autism, which also helped raise money for the study, reported its findings in glowing terms:


As parents have long expected, the rate of autism is significantly higher in the vaccinated group, a finding that could shake vaccine safety claims just as the first president who has ever stated a belief in a link between vaccines and autism has taken office.


The only problem? The paper is a identical version of a paper briefly published in Frontiers in Public Health in 2016 before being disowned by the publisher. This Translational Science version, as well, was pulled from the website with some reports that it had been retracted as well. As of 18 May 2017, however, the study reappeared on that journal’s website with no public comment for why it was removed or returned.

As we will describe below, these de facto retractions and high level of scrutiny stem not from a conspiracy to silence work critical of the medical establishment, but from the myriad ethical, methodological, and quantitative problems inherent in the study and to the research group behind it.

The Researchers, Their Funding, and the “Peer-Reviewed” Journals

Though hailed by some blog posts as a truly “independent” research project, the lead author of the study, Anthony Mawson, is far from an impartial player in this debate: he is a vocal supporter of Andrew Wakefield, a controversial doctor who is arguably the the father of the anti-vaccine movement. Wakefield first proposed the connection between vaccination and autism in a 12-child case study built with data that was misrepresented and collected without ethical approval, a work that has since been retracted. At the time of the study, Wakefield was working with a lawyer to create a class-action lawsuit against makers of the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. Wakefield had also filed a patent for a replacement MMR vaccine that he hoped to develop.

Mawson, who signed a petition called “We Support Andrew Wakefield,” alleged in a 2011 lawsuit that he lost an academic post due to his views on vaccine safety. (That lawsuit was dismissed.)

Mawson’s vaccine study was funded by two anti-vaccine groups: Generation Rescue, founded by anti-vaccine activist Jenny McCarthy, and the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute, founded by vaccine skeptic Claire Dwoskin. Web sites such as Age of Autism ran ads calling for donations to Generation Rescue, containing an explicit statement that the money would go toward funding the study.

The journals that published the study are just as a problematic as the donors, though for different reasons: both journals have been accused of predatory practices. These types of journals profit from academia’s relentless focus on publication by charging large publishing fees in lieu of editorial oversight. Translational Science charged Mawson et al $2,000 to publish their study.

Additionally, both journals’ commitment to the peer-review process is questionable at best. For the study’s 2016 incarnation, Frontiers in Public Health asked Linda Mullin Elkins, a chiropractor with no published research to her name on the subject of autism, or any background in vaccine research or epidemiology, to review the study. This same journal, just four months prior, retracted a paper about “chemtrails”, a popular topic in conspiracy circles alleging government-hidden harm from chemical trails made by planes in the sky.

While there is less of a publication history by which to judge the Journal of Translational Science — its first issue was released in July 2015 — it is not widely cited and is not indexed on the National Institute of Health’s MEDLINE database, a repository for abstracts of medically relevant research.

'First Ever' Study Comparing Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Children Shows Harm from Vaccines?
 
Nothing I've read here countering the need for vaccines to perpetuate our species is from a legitimate source. True science (capital 'T') has shown time and time again that vaccines are required. Anything else is the typical pseudo-science from illegitimate non-scientific sources....typical of pixelsmith's anti-government rhetoric.

Thankfully the anti-vaxxer 'campaign' is ignored by the overwhelming global general public, governments (not just the US), and medical communities. People will continue to be effectively vaccinated as a whole, so any and all anti-vaxxing arguments such as pixelsmith's as usual, pointless and wasted here.

Then again, that's what forums like this are meant for, right? Vent, rant, 'prove' that your delusional anti-government or 'big pharma' paranoia is correct and have a sounding board where people echo those ideals back to you and tell you how right you are? At the same time vaccinations are still administered en-mass, and human beings continue to see less and less of the diseases that killed us by the millions.

Please....keep up the discussion here. See what it changes for you......those around you....or the general masses of "sheeple."

Peace.
 
At this point, a more fruitful conversation might be had around the psychology of why Pixel desperately wants to blame whatever harmed his children - and his girlfriends - on vaccines.

Because there are more commonalities than vaccinations, and far more rational explanations. The common factor here seems to be Pixel, and that's where I'd start.

In other words, what is in Pixel's environment that could be causing it? And why does he want to reassign blame to what has an astronomically low chance of being true?
 
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At this point, a more fruitful conversation might be had around the psychology of why Pixel desperately wants to blame whatever harmed his children - and his girlfriends - on vaccines.

Because there are more commonalities than vaccinations, and far more rational explanations. The common factor here seems to be Pixel, and that's where I'd start.

In other words, what is in Pixel's environment that could be causing it? And why does he want to reassign blame to what has an astronomically low chance of being true?

Youve already done the math on the odds of all children being affected by vaccines. The odds are all but impossible.

But lets look at the odds for toxoplasmosis vector.


Earlier studies have shown that infants with untreated congenital toxoplasmosis and generalized or neurologic abnormalities at presentation almost uniformly develop mental retardation, seizures, and spasticity. Children with untreated subclinical disease at birth have developed seizures, significant cognitive and motor deficits, and diminution in cognitive function over time.

Pixel has a 1 in 3 chance of being infected since 1 third of the worlds population has it and doesnt even know it.
It takes two to make a baby, Each person having a 1 in 3 chance of being a carrier and infecting each other and the children. The odd for a toxoplas vector narrow.
Pixel is a cat owner (Sugar a shelter rescue cat) the Shelter itself increasing the odds in favour of the cat being in contact with an infected cat (Cats are usually kept in communal enclosures at shelters. And if taken from the street are more likely to have eaten rats and mice which also carry the disease.)

We know from proper medical studys Toxoplasmosis can and does cause the very same symptoms.

Neurologic and developmental outcome in treated congenital toxoplasmosis. - PubMed - NCBI

Autism and ADHD may be linked with the parasite Toxoplasma gondii | EmaxHealth

Autism spectrum disorders may be due to cerebral toxoplasmosis associated with chronic neuroinflammation causing persistent hypercytokinemia that resulted in an increased lipid peroxidation, oxidative stress, and depressed metabolism of endogenous and exogenous substances (PDF Download Available)

Given the medical science, and the odds its far more likely that Pixel himself is a carrier and is the cause of his children's injury's.
There is no shame in this, its no one fault.
But perhaps blaming a vaccine makes it easier to bear.

But it is shameful to be ignorant of the real cause and then try and convince people that safe vaccines that have helped us all but eradicate diseases should be avoided.

There is no evidence vaccines cause autism, there IS evidence toxoplasmosis does.
 
Sadly.

Can Toxoplasmosis Be Prevented ?

There is no vaccine on the market to immunize cats, humans or other animals against Toxoplasmosis; although there is hope that one might eventually be developed.

Toxoplasmosis In Your Cat And You

Children born in these circumstances may be sick at birth or disease symptoms may occur weeks to years later. Signs of the disease, when they occur in these children, can include mental retardation, eye and nervous system disease, deafness, lung disease, fever, jaundice and rash

And the article notes,

Do not acquire new cats, volunteer at animal shelters or attend to feral cat colonies during pregnancy.


http://www.2ndchance.info/toxoplasmosis-Fleger2009.pdf

Cats could be making children stupid, according to research that links a parasite carried by the animals with falling reading and memory aptitude in young people.

A study has found performance at school could be affected by Toxoplasma gondii, a single-celled organism that infects about a third of the world’s population and hides in cells in the brain and muscles, often without producing symptoms.
Some studies have suggested that Toxoplasma gondii can alter the behaviour of humans too, making men more aggressive and even causing women to cheat on their husbands. Other research has pointed to a strong link between the parasite and schizophrenia.

A symptomless pregnant mother infected by Toxoplasma gondii can pass the parasite on to her unborn baby, which could become fatally ill.

The new research was published in the journal Parasitology.
Parasite in cats linked to learning difficulties in children

 
My god you are as dumb as a rock. Even the CDC admits the autism vaccine link.

Genetics
One of the best ways to determine whether a particular disease or syndrome is genetic is to examine the incidence in identical and fraternal twins. Using a strict definition of autism, approximately 60 percent of identical and 0 percent of fraternal twins have autism. Using a broader definition of autism (i.e. autistic spectrum disorder), approximately 92 percent of identical and 10 percent of fraternal twins have autism. Therefore, autism clearly has a genetic basis.

"Home-movie" studies
Clues to the causes of autism can be found in studies examining when the symptoms of autism are first evident. Perhaps the best data examining when symptoms of autism are first evident are the "home-movie studies. These studies took advantage of the fact that many parents take movies of their children during their first birthday (before they have received the MMR vaccine).

Home movies from children who were eventually diagnosed with autism and those who were not diagnosed with autism were coded and shown to developmental specialists. Investigators were, with a very high degree of accuracy, able to separate autistic from non-autistic children at 1 year of age. These studies found that subtle symptoms of autism were present earlier than some parents had suspected, and that receipt of the MMR vaccine did not precede the first symptoms of autism. Other investigators extended the home-movie studies of 1-year-old children to include videotapes of children taken at 2 to 3 months of age.

Timing of first symptoms
Using a sophisticated movement analysis, videos from children eventually diagnosed with autism or not diagnosed with autism were coded and evaluated for their capacity to predict autism. Children who were eventually diagnosed with autism were predicted from movies taken in early infancy. This study supported the hypothesis that very subtle symptoms of autism are present in early infancy and argues strongly against vaccines as a cause of autism.

Structural abnormalities of the nervous system
Toxic or viral insults to the fetus that cause autism, as well as certain central nervous system disorders associated with autism, support the notion that autism is likely to occur in the womb. For example, children exposed to thalidomide during the first or early second trimester were found to have an increased incidence of autism. Thalidomide was a medication that used to be prescribed to pregnant women to treat nausea. However, autism occurred in children with ear, but not arm or leg, abnormalities. Because ears develop before 24 days gestation, and arms and legs develop after 24 days gestation, the risk period for autism following receipt of thalidomide must have been before 24 days gestation. In support of this finding, Rodier and colleagues found evidence for structural abnormalities of the nervous system in children with autism. These abnormalities could only have occurred during development of the nervous system in the womb.

Natural rubella infection
Similarly, children with congenital rubella syndrome are at increased risk for development of autism. Risk is associated with exposure to rubella before birth but not after birth.
 
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