are vaccines safe?

[pixelsmith]

The Truth About Vaccines first episode is great.

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[pixelsmith]

So even though I'm definitely pro-vaccine, I personally know of someone whose child died after being vaccinated. I do feel the CDC has gotten a little callous in determining that a certain amount of deaths are acceptable, and I personally feel they could have done more. And the CDC got tagged pretty hard for not declaring conflicts of interests like they are mandated to by law (some of which involved doctors making vaccines mandatory for which they hold the patent).
If you are parent, I think you have a right be concerned and extra-vigilant, but it doesn't excuse the anti-vaccination sentiment that is currently at play.

The anti vax people were pro vax before tragic side effects happened to their children. You would/will be right behind us if/when it happens to your loved ones.

 

[pixelsmith]

a thread to discuss the merits of vaccinations. please if you make a statement about vaccines pro or con back up the statement with scientific data! and NO name calling or personal attacks please!

The Supreme Court classified vaccines as "unavoidably unsafe". So there's that too.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

The answer to the question posed by this thread is without a doubt, yes, vaccines are safe and are recommended by all well informed professionals that have done scholarly research on the topic - not watched videos and documentaries produced by misguided celebrities and unscrupulous former doctors.

Unfortunately, in some cases, people have had tragic events that change their perception of what to believe, and there really isn't anything that can be done to convince them otherwise. In these cases, people will look to fringe groups that claim to have the "truth" and they will enter an echo chamber of delusion. That's the reality of how the human mind works. There's very little that can be done to convince someone on the other side (similar to many other fringe ideas).

Sites like Natural News prey on these people and appeal to them with similar ideas, with the ultimate goal of selling them the garbage they advertise their sites. Alex Jones (another one who thinks vaccines are bad) mostly just wants you to listen so that he can sell you some of his crummy protein powders.

Arguing with an anti-vaxxer or climate change denier or god-forbid a PC user, is a losing game - you will never convince them that the evidence you present them is worthy as it will be compromised somehow. At the end of the day, I just use their answers to test my logical fallacy identification skills.

 

[mike]

Unfortunately, in some cases, people have had tragic events that change their perception of what to believe

Thats actually a well researched aspect of this issue.

In some cases, these kinds of reactions may be caused by the vaccine. But in other situations, the symptoms may be unrelated, occurring by chance at the same time as the vaccination. For this reason, scientists refer to these kinds of symptoms as adverse events following immunisation to indicate that events that follow vaccination may not be caused by the vaccine.

One unique study from Finland addressed this issue 74. Researchers analysed common symptoms in 581 pairs of twins after one twin received the MMR vaccine and the other was given a dummy vaccine (a placebo). Between one and six days after the injection, the number of adverse events in the twin who received the MMR vaccine was almost identical to those in the twin who received placebo 74 (see Figure 4.1). Between seven and 12 days after the injection, the vaccinated group had a measurable increase in symptoms that are known to be associated with administration of the attenuated measles vaccine, such as fever, irritability and rash. On the other hand, no difference between the two groups could be detected over that period in the frequency of coughand cold-like symptoms—which occur commonly with or without vaccination. Moreover, even some of the symptoms known to occur after MMR vaccine were also seen in the group who received placebo, but at a lower rate.

In summary, this valuable study showed that many common symptoms that occur after a vaccine is given are not caused by the vaccine, but occur by chance at that time

One of the most common mistakes people can make regarding Cause & Effect conclusion is to assume "Correlation" Implies "Causality".

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-draw-cause-effect-conclusion-correctly-based-data-wang-shu-王澍

In a Manufacturing, Engineering and Research environment, typically we setup a controlled experiment to test whether the intended factor(s) is/are the leading root cause(s) or not, supported by the statistical significant result. We call this kind of experiments "Hypothesis testing".

This has been done with vaccines as per the example above, But as you say no amount of test results to the contrary will convince the anti vaxxer true believer.

Its wrestling with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

 

[pixelsmith]

Thats actually a well researched aspect of this issue.

In some cases, these kinds of reactions may be caused by the vaccine. But in other situations, the symptoms may be unrelated, occurring by chance at the same time as the vaccination. For this reason, scientists refer to these kinds of symptoms as adverse events following immunisation to indicate that events that follow vaccination may not be caused by the vaccine.

One unique study from Finland addressed this issue 74. Researchers analysed common symptoms in 581 pairs of twins after one twin received the MMR vaccine and the other was given a dummy vaccine (a placebo). Between one and six days after the injection, the number of adverse events in the twin who received the MMR vaccine was almost identical to those in the twin who received placebo 74 (see Figure 4.1). Between seven and 12 days after the injection, the vaccinated group had a measurable increase in symptoms that are known to be associated with administration of the attenuated measles vaccine, such as fever, irritability and rash. On the other hand, no difference between the two groups could be detected over that period in the frequency of coughand cold-like symptoms—which occur commonly with or without vaccination. Moreover, even some of the symptoms known to occur after MMR vaccine were also seen in the group who received placebo, but at a lower rate.

In summary, this valuable study showed that many common symptoms that occur after a vaccine is given are not caused by the vaccine, but occur by chance at that time

One of the most common mistakes people can make regarding Cause & Effect conclusion is to assume "Correlation" Implies "Causality".

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-draw-cause-effect-conclusion-correctly-based-data-wang-shu-王澍

In a Manufacturing, Engineering and Research environment, typically we setup a controlled experiment to test whether the intended factor(s) is/are the leading root cause(s) or not, supported by the statistical significant result. We call this kind of experiments "Hypothesis testing".

This has been done with vaccines as per the example above, But as you say no amount of test results to the contrary will convince the anti vaxxer true believer.

Its wrestling with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

Would you care to share the study comparing vaccinated vs unvaccinated subjects and also a study showing how safe mercury is in vaccines?
Bonus for you if you can show the mercury study you can claim $100,000.00.
This should be very easy right?
Unique Challenge to the Media and American People - World Mercury Project

 

[mike]

Mercury is safe 3 studys below.

Parker, S.K., et al. (2004) Thimerosal-containing vaccines and autistic spectrum disorder: a critical review of published original data. Pediatrics 114 (3), 793–804.
(Similarly, any link between thiomersal, which was previously used in minute quantities as a preservative in vaccines, and autism has also been excluded)

Schechter, R. & Grether, J.K. (2008). Continuing increases in autism reported to California’s developmental services system: Mercury in retrograde. Archives of General Psychiatry, 65(1), 19 – 24.
(Another study[24] also looked at rates of autism before and after the removal of thiomersal from vaccines in California and found no decrease in diagnosis)

Offit, P.A. and Jew, R.K. (2003) Addressing parents’ concerns: do vaccines contain harmful preservatives, adjuvants, additives, or residuals? Pediatrics 112 (6 Pt 1), 1394–7.
(Preservatives, such as thiomersal (also known as thimerosal) and boric acid, are chemicals designed to prevent the growth of bacteria in vaccine preparations.

In practice, preservatives are no longer needed in vaccines given in Australia, as they are now produced in single-use sealed vials. The only exception is when multi-dose vials are used during an influenza pandemic as an emergency measure or for mass vaccinations.

In the past, preservatives such as thiomersal were added to vaccines. However, the quantity was very small and the total amount received by a fully vaccinated person was minuscule 53. These small amounts of preservatives have never been shown to be harmful 54.)

Vacinnated vs Unvaccinated

A number of large population studies have found no evidence to support a causal association between MMR and autism. A study of more than 500,000 Danish children[17] found no increased risk of ASDs among those who had received the MMR compared with those who had not been vaccinated, and even though autism rates increased during the study period, this increase occurred well after the introduction of the MMR vaccine.

Similarly, Fombonne and colleagues[18] study in 2006 of more than 27,000 Canadian children noted that rates of Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDDs) increased over time, while take-up of the MMR vaccination decreased which ruled out a causal association between ASD and the MMR. Another study[19] also found that even when the MMR was discontinued in a region of Japan, autism rates continued to rise, suggesting that the MMR vaccine was unlikely to be the main cause of autism. Similarly, a more recent study of Japanese children[20] did not find convincing evidence that MMR vaccination was associated with an increased risk of ASD

Many comprehensive studies subsequently ruled out this suggested link by showing conclusively that rates of autism are the same among children who have and have not been vaccinated.

One unique study from Finland addressed this issue 74. Researchers analysed common symptoms in 581 pairs of twins after one twin received the MMR vaccine and the other was given a dummy vaccine (a placebo). Between one and six days after the injection, the number of adverse events in the twin who received the MMR vaccine was almost identical to those in the twin who received placebo 74 (see Figure 4.1). Between seven and 12 days after the injection, the vaccinated group had a measurable increase in symptoms that are known to be associated with administration of the attenuated measles vaccine, such as fever, irritability and rash. On the other hand, no difference between the two groups could be detected over that period in the frequency of cough and cold-like symptoms—which occur commonly with or without vaccination. Moreover, even some of the symptoms known to occur after MMR vaccine were also seen in the group who received placebo, but at a lower rate.


All of which has been posted previously Pixel. Clearly you don't even bother to read our reply's or you wouldn't have asked for data already posted.

So ive gone to the effort to reply yet again. You asked for the study's i gave them. I'm not feeding the troll anymore.

Your children were NOT injured by vaccines, Correlation does not mean causality. It was a coincidence. The vaccines did not injure them.
Perhaps you are blaming the vaccine as a way of dodging the real reason they were injured.......

Anyway ive given you yet again the studys that show that thimersol is safe, and that the rates of autism between vaccinated vs unvaccinated are the same in multiple populations.

Is thimerosal safe?
Yes. Thimerosal has been used safely in vaccines for a long time (since the 1930s).

Scientists have been studying the use of thimerosal in vaccines for many years. They haven’t found any evidence that thimerosal causes harm.



Is thimerosal still used in vaccines for children?
No. Thimerosal hasn’t been used in vaccines for children since 2001.

However, thimerosal is still used in some flu vaccines. Yearly flu vaccines are recommended for all children. If you are worried about thimerosal, you can ask for a flu vaccine without it.



Does thimerosal cause autism?
No. Research does not show any link between thimerosal and autism.
Read more about vaccines and autism.

Frequently Asked Questions about Thimerosal Thimerosal | Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

 

[mike]

There is no link between vaccines and autism.
Some people have had concerns that ASD might be linked to the vaccines children receive, but studies have shown that there is no link between receiving vaccines and developing ASD. In 2011, an Institute of Medicine (IOM) report on eight vaccines given to children and adults found that with rare exceptions, these vaccines are very safe.

A 2013 CDC study [PDF – 204 KB] added to the research showing that vaccines do not cause ASD. The study looked at the number of antigens (substances in vaccines that cause the body’s immune system to produce disease-fighting antibodies) from vaccines during the first two years of life. The results showed that the total amount of antigen from vaccines received was the same between children with ASD and those that did not have ASD.

Vaccine ingredients do not cause autism.
One vaccine ingredient that has been studied specifically is thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative used to prevent contamination of multidose vials of vaccines. Research shows that thimerosal does not cause ASD. In fact, a 2004 scientific review by the IOM concluded that “the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal–containing vaccines and autism.” Since 2003, there have been nine CDC-funded or conducted studies[PDF – 357 KB] that have found no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, as well as no link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and ASD in children.

Between 1999 and 2001, thimerosal was removed or reduced to trace amounts in all childhood vaccines except for some flu vaccines. This was done as part of a broader national effort to reduce all types of mercury exposure in children before studies were conducted that determined that thimerosal was not harmful. It was done as a precaution. Currently, the only childhood vaccines that contain thimerosal are flu vaccines packaged in multidose vials. Thimerosal-free alternatives are also available for flu vaccine. For more information, see the Timeline for Thimerosal in Vaccines.

Besides thimerosal, some people have had concerns about other vaccine ingredients in relation to ASD as well. However, no links have been found between any vaccine ingredients and ASD.

 

[mike]

Vaccines are safer than organic food:

Consumer demand for organically produced foods is increasing in the United States as well as globally. Consumer perception often credits organic foods as being safer than conventionally produced foods, although organic standards do not directly address safety issues such as microbial or chemical hazards. We reviewed outbreaks reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Foodborne Disease Outbreak Surveillance System where the implicated food was reported to be organic. Information collected for each outbreak included the year, state, number of illnesses, pathogen, and implicated food. We identified 18 outbreaks caused by organic foods from 1992 to 2014, resulting in 779 illnesses, 258 hospitalizations, and 3 deaths; 56% of outbreaks occurred from 2010 to 2014. Nine outbreaks occurred in a single state, and nine outbreaks were multistate. Salmonella sp. (44% of outbreaks) and Escherichia coli O157:H7 (33%) were the most commonly occurring pathogens. Eight of the outbreaks were attributed to produce items, four to unpasteurized dairy products, two to eggs, two to nut and seed products, and two to multi-ingredient foods. Fifteen (83%) outbreaks were associated with foods that were definitely or likely U.S. Department of Agriculture certified. More foodborne outbreaks associated with organic foods in the United States have been reported in recent years, in parallel with increases in organic food production and consumption.

Organic Food Has 'Significantly Higher' Contamination, Study Finds

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/...rganic-food-on-the-rise-report-says.html?_r=0

CDC investigating increasing foodborne illnesses and deaths linked to organic food | Genetic Literacy Project

 

[pixelsmith]

I can't wait to see what Mike, Angelo or the other pro vaxxer s are going to do with their $100,000.00
Gene I know you could use that easy money.
Cmon boys step right up and collect your money!!!


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[pixelsmith]

Vaccines are safer than organic food:

Consumer demand for organically produced foods is increasing in the United States as well as globally. Consumer perception often credits organic foods as being safer than conventionally produced foods, although organic standards do not directly address safety issues such as microbial or chemical hazards. We reviewed outbreaks reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Foodborne Disease Outbreak Surveillance System where the implicated food was reported to be organic. Information collected for each outbreak included the year, state, number of illnesses, pathogen, and implicated food. We identified 18 outbreaks caused by organic foods from 1992 to 2014, resulting in 779 illnesses, 258 hospitalizations, and 3 deaths; 56% of outbreaks occurred from 2010 to 2014. Nine outbreaks occurred in a single state, and nine outbreaks were multistate. Salmonella sp. (44% of outbreaks) and Escherichia coli O157:H7 (33%) were the most commonly occurring pathogens. Eight of the outbreaks were attributed to produce items, four to unpasteurized dairy products, two to eggs, two to nut and seed products, and two to multi-ingredient foods. Fifteen (83%) outbreaks were associated with foods that were definitely or likely U.S. Department of Agriculture certified. More foodborne outbreaks associated with organic foods in the United States have been reported in recent years, in parallel with increases in organic food production and consumption.

Organic Food Has 'Significantly Higher' Contamination, Study Finds

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/...rganic-food-on-the-rise-report-says.html?_r=0

CDC investigating increasing foodborne illnesses and deaths linked to organic food | Genetic Literacy Project

That is thee most retarded thing ever posted here Mike. Congratulations.

 

[mike]

Vaccination is more than a personal choice, it’s a social responsibility. Like not driving drunk or not smoking around people who don’t want to breathe in your nicotine.


So as a community, we must have zero tolerance for misinformation about vaccinations.

1. “Vaccines cause autism.”No. No. No. Do I need to say this again? No. One of the most powerful pieces of evidence to show that there is no link between vaccines and autism comes from Japan where they replaced the triple vaccine Measles Mumps Rubella (MMR) with single vaccines mid-1993. Guess what happened? Autism continued to rise
This should have been the final nail in the coffin for the autism/vaccines link but instead opponents just shifted the blame to thiomersal, the mercury-containing component that was present in small amounts in some vaccines where it was used as a preservative (MMR never contained thiomersal).

This component was removed from all scheduled childhood vaccines in the year 2000, solely because of the scary word “mercury” and not for any fears or evidence for harmful effects. If it were contributing to rising cases of autism then you would expect a dramatic drop following its removal. Instead, like the MMR in Japan, the opposite is true, and autism continues to rise.

Of course these are not the only pieces of evidence, and scientists continue to test, and re-test the safety of vaccines. A recently published exhaustive review examining 12,000 research articles covering 8 different vaccines concluded there was no link between vaccines and autism. While scientists still don’t know the exact causes of autism, we are looking like mad and one thing we can be extremely confident of is that it’s not vaccines.

In every case, the benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks, and even more significantly outweigh the harm potentially caused by the disease. In the case of measles, the risk of encephalitis, which can lead to brain damage is 1 in 1,000. The risk of contracting encephalitis from the measles vaccine it’s 1 in 1,000,000 (note, all vaccines have side effects without which they would have no effect). Without any vaccine, 6 out of 100 children infected with measles will get pneumonia and 2 kids out of every 1,000 infected will die.

“There are two sides.”

There are two sides to the vaccine “debate” just like there are two sides to the “earth is round” debate (yes, the Flat Earth Society really does exist). On the one hand there is the scientific consensus backed by extensive research that vaccines are safe and effective, and on the other there is obfuscation, half-truths, misinformation and debunked research.

The only debate is one that has been manufactured by those with a vested interest in undermining confidence in vaccines. Those like Andrew Wakefield, who has been accused of deliberate fraud by the British Medical Journal for suggesting there was a link between the MMR and autism all the while pocketing money from lawyers tasked with suing the vaccine manufacturers.

Wakefield was also poised to submit a patent on a single measles vaccine, from which he stood to profit substantially once he’d scared everyone away from the triple antigen MMR. He also stood to make millions from a diagnostic kit he had developed for autistic enterocolitis, a new condition he claimed to have identified in his 1998 Lancet paper (which has since been retracted by the publisher). So yes, I guess there are two sides, there is the side where all the evidence lies in support of vaccination, then there are the cranks and quacks with a vested interest.

6 things to say when you're faced with anti-vaccination rhetoric.

 

[mike]

That is the most retarded thing ever posted here Mike. Congratulations.

Yes we all know that facts are not your friend me old china.

Naturally you will claim its all bunk, since you have a vested interest selling this stuff (See what i did there ?)

 

[mike]

Further, in August 2011, an exhaustive review of the scientific literature by the Institute of Medicine in the US concluded that overall “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines”. And when I say “exhaustive review”, I mean 12,000 peer-reviewed articles, covering eight different vaccines were pored over by a committee of 18 experts in the largest review of adverse events associated with vaccines since 1994. It was a thorough and herculean effort concluding that there is no causal relationship between vaccines and autism.

Nine major myths about vaccinations. Busted.

So in the left corner we have weighing in at 12,000 per reviewed articles covering 8 vaccines and poured over by 18 experts, In the right we have ..... well nothing really a tinfoil hat and a pair of boxers shorts.

I cant watch anymore.... oh the humanity......

 

[pixelsmith]

Further, in August 2011, an exhaustive review of the scientific literature by the Institute of Medicine in the US concluded that overall “few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines”. And when I say “exhaustive review”, I mean 12,000 peer-reviewed articles, covering eight different vaccines were pored over by a committee of 18 experts in the largest review of adverse events associated with vaccines since 1994. It was a thorough and herculean effort concluding that there is no causal relationship between vaccines and autism.

Nine major myths about vaccinations. Busted.

So in the left corner we have weighing in at 12,000 per reviewed articles covering 8 vaccines and poured over by 18 experts, In the right we have ..... well nothing really a tinfoil hat and a pair of boxers shorts.

I cant watch anymore.... oh the humanity......

You are so full of shit.

 

[mike]

This means that going organic in the US will kill more than 13,000 people each year.

Think organic food is better for you, animals, and the planet? Think again

Organic food may be killing the environment | Daily Mail Online

Yes, Organic Farming Will Kill Us All – NewCo Shift

The US organic industry has approved over 3000 toxic pesticides for use in organic farming, many of which are neurotoxins or with a toxic profile requiring “Danger” labels.

The Risk-Monger’s Dirty Dozen – 12 highly toxic pesticides approved for use in organic farming

Reading this i wouldnt let your kids play outside on your farm if i were you. The pathogens on organic farms are well documented.

 

[mike]

You are so full of shit

Yes but i flush mine, i dont use it to grow vegies to feed children with, you monster.

But, there is another problem: even those organic farms which really do use less or no pesticides aren’t necessarily producing food that is free from harmful things. Between 1990 and 2001, over 10,000 people fell ill due to foods contaminated with pathogens like E. coli. One study found E. coli in produce from almost 10% of organic farms samples, but only 2% of conventional ones 9. The same study also found Salmonella only in samples from organic farms, though at a low prevalence rate. The reason for the higher pathogen prevalence is likely due to the use of manure instead of artificial fertilizers. Many pathogens are spread through fecal contamination.

 

[mike]

No child under the age of 3 should be feed organic lettuce.
Thats child abuse right there.

The organic produce industry’s nastier little secret is that its use of animal manures as natural fertilisers involves a small but serious risk to human health – especially to young children.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/life/eat-drink/2014/08/29/hidden-dangers-organic-food/

 

[Azz7092]

I think there is enough info on the internet for people to do there own research and make there own minds up. otherwise wen end up dictating to people what they should and shouldn't do.

 

[pixelsmith]

Who here collected the $100,000.00 for the mercury project?


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