As frustrated as Biedny

[DavidRavenMoon]

Bobheck, I only drink loose leaf Darjeeling, the lightest of the teas!
Mrs Loose Leaf is a big Earl Grey fan but I only drink it in extremis as it's a bit too "perfumy" for me.

(BTW, is there a terrible penalty for massively derailing a thread?!)

I love tea. One of my favorites is Constant Comment.

OK time to make more coffee...

 

[Schuyler]

There is one root cause for this shift in my thinking, and I put the blame squarely at the door of Gene and David's Paracast.

Before you think this a slam, let me finish.

I tend to think ten times more deeply when something is presented now, than I did before. The bits that make it past that more critical thinking, tend to spark more thought, more wondering, and more possibilities rather than those limited to 'just aliens'.

I know what you mean. It's kind of like being a jilted lover who still has faith. I remember when I first saw the Billy Meier coffee table book I was enamored (well before these internets). Wow! Look at this! But that didn't turn out so well. Then I found out about Greer and the Disclosure Project and I was pumped! But that didn't turn out so well either. Every time something happened, either nothing happened, or shit happened.

Then I found two basic groups. There were the debunkers and arch skeptics who claimed NOTHING was there, period; and then there were the believers who believed every light in the sky PROVED aliens were visiting earth. It's a rare forum that is both highly skeptical, BUT knows something is going on, is run by grown-ups seasoned in the field, and encourages doubt and hope at the same time.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I know what you mean. It's kind of like being a jilted lover who still has faith. I remember when I first saw the Billy Meier coffee table book I was enamored (well before these internets). Wow! Look at this! But that didn't turn out so well. Then I found out about Greer and the Disclosure Project and I was pumped! But that didn't turn out so well either. Every time something happened, either nothing happened, or shit happened.

I still have the book Light Years by Gary Kinder. I remember thinking, "Wow, those are great photos" too, and then of course Meier's stories got more and more absurd, and then he started showing those stupid photos of the Wedding Cake thing covered with X-mas tree ornaments and crap like the Gold-digger girls as aliens. I'm old enough to remember them!

I've been out of the loop as far as the field of ufology, so I "missed out" on a lot of the scandals and kooks. So I really appreciate what the Paracast does as far as separating the signal from noise. I mean some people are obviously nuts, but then there is the less obvious hoaxes.

I just listened to the show with Stephen Bassett. I already get the Disclosure Project emails, which amount to little more than nothing, so I was curious what he had to say. He started off sounding kind of sincere, if not naive, but then he got really stupid and defensive and sounded like a nut case. If he said "ET Tech" one more time I was going to spit! Then he contradicted himself saying we didn't have the ET Tech figured out.

I have to agree with dB that what the government is probably hiding is that, yes, something is going on, and we have no idea what it is, and can't do a damn thing about it. I'd sure like to see some of the good photos and film they have though.

 

[Kieran]

After listening to tons of Paracasts and other related broadcasts, I have come to the believe the following due to the guests, host's opinions and evidence (more like lack of evidence) presented:
-No are aliens being seen. No real evidence: either hoaxes, figments of imaginations, nature or Earthly efforts.
-No knappings. They all come back alive and although some of them seem visibly affected, I am convinced it is more to do with psychological phenomenon.
-The aliens (or other entities) are not watching our nukes. If that were the case you would have more sightings around Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, India, and anyone else in the dance.
-The only government cover up would be of anything to do with top secret weapons development.
-There is not one scrap of material evidence of crashes or beings that are not human.


It is no wonder the UFO and paranormal circles are infested with showmen acting like serious researchers...the followers are 90% sheep who get excited by the same elements in reality TV and soap operas.

Even as much as I respect David's extreme intelligence and ability to articulate, where are the other people who saw what you saw in South America?

The only fascination I find now with this topic is with those who investigate ad research ways to replicate alleged photo and video evidence of UFOs, aliens and the like.

There is nothing going on that is actually real. No government on the planet has the capability of covering this up. It doesn't exist. We are alone until we get discovered by our "space brothers".

Peace

I Think if you really believed what you just posted, why would you even talk about the subject. It is seems nonsensical for me to believe anyone would come on a site like the parcast for a debate on such matters.

Everybody doubts the reality of the ufo phenomen as "alien" because we have no solid evidence for that case as of yet, but it be naive to think we have that type of technology on our earth.
We have evidence in hundreds of photographs and videos and eyewitness's, but i think it would be very naive to think this was just all a elaborate hoax that has been being playing out for thousands of years.

Through the centurys people have believed in God and the afterlife yet never a photograph or film of god or afterlife does that make it less real?

Goverment cover ups are a reality we know they exist. They have been successful in countries all over the world, but a ufo coverup by goverment on a world wide scale, i do agree is hard to fathom.

I See it like this though, the ufo occupants make it very easy for the goverment to keep the cover up going, the question should be, why are the ufos keeping the cover up.

South American reports from the 1970s could number the thousands. Most of the country's papers are in spanish and portuguese. So it not surpriseing alot of the ufos reports have never made it into english. People all over the world witness ufos every day, yet we never hear or rarely do because of the language barrier or of lacking interest by the media.

So naturally it fades into memory, only to be talked about amongest familys of eyewitness's, a member saw something that was out of the norm or maybe in alot of cases was never mentioned again in fear of ridicule.

Goverments regard nukes as a national security issue, so it wouldnt be uncommon to have got no ufo reports.

Our best source would probably be local people who actually sighted ufos in the area were nukes were kept , since i highly doubt we would hear or get much information from geniune military sources for a long time.

What ever you say about roswell, you can deny the story, the miliary fucked up big time. They released the statement they had a captured a "flying disc" not ufologists or the public. I guess, i dont believe in the balloon theory, but i guess i am one of those naive few.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I guess, i dont believe in the balloon theory, but i guess i am one of those naive few.

I'm right there with you.

I think they recovered something that wasn't made by humans. Maybe even bodies.

I don't believe for a minute that they understand any of it, or got any "ET Tech" as Steve Bassett likes to say.

 

[Xylo]

I think I sense the frustration in the OP. I feel that way sometimes as well. But there are tons of evidentiary materials out there: credible photos, eyewitness testimonies, trace evidence, as well as cases with correlation with radar & visual sightings.

This evidence can't just be swept under the rug along with the obvious hoaxes and the snake oil salesmen that peddle them. To do that is illogical, at the very least, and takes away the legitimacy of the credible reports.

Do we put down all unexplained aerial phenomena as mass hysteria? If so, then how do we explain the radar reports? The trace evidence? The photographic evidence?

I'd think that there is some, if precious little, information out there that points towards the existence of some sentience beyond our little belligerent planet, beyond our bellicose nature. I do not think that governments will "disclose" any major amount of information, nor will there be any crowning moment in which the unknowns present themselves to the world in an undeniable way.

Still, it doesn't mean that everyone is credible-nor incredible. Logic, reason and rationality are in short supply on both sides of this endeavor, but frustration; that runs rampant.

 

[brado]

Excellent, and honest post. I fully respect your point of view. I, too, keep and open mind but have lost my original excitement that something may be there...for better or for worse. And no matter what anyone says on this forum or any of the next hundred Paracasts I listen to, until there is an official statement by a government that is not retracted and/or a real piece of physical evidence, I choose to take the stance of "I can't see it or touch it, I cannot believe the claim".

I do respect the posts that are challenging/criticizing or admonishing me. It is your opinion and your right to express it.
May we soon get proof enough.
B

 

[brado]

See, I understand all of your points and I could easily side on either side of the picture. Honestly, up until a few episodes ago, I was really pulling for the type of truth we all want to hear to finally surface. However, my reasoning, with only a bit of research that minimal time allows, I will admit, does not allow me to give much credibility to most "eyewitness reports" and that seems to be the only "evidence" that we have. Pictures/videos...not so much, really. And as far as Roswell is concerned, in my mind, it could have gone down something like a mid-ranking officer reports that a disk was found. Reports it upline and it gets released without better checking of the facts, then has to be retracted. Maybe improbable, but how likely is either side of the story...that they recovered a disk, stated such then retracted.

As I continue to state, I am a loyal listener and fan. I like the topic. But as far as buying into a lot of it, there are way too many ulterior motives, and "noise". Thus the title of my post. I share the frustration even though our belief level is different. (Sorry, I don't have a better word than "belief", but it is not in the context of deep spiritual belief but whether I believe that a claim or sighting or report is true).
Peace.
B

 

[Experiencer7]

What does an angel's face look like?

How many people have seen that face and lived to tell about it?

That would depend upon the eye of the beholder. My choice would be Jessica Alba.

 

[Experiencer7]

I know what you mean. It's kind of like being a jilted lover who still has faith. I remember when I first saw the Billy Meier coffee table book I was enamored (well before these internets). Wow! Look at this! But that didn't turn out so well. Then I found out about Greer and the Disclosure Project and I was pumped! But that didn't turn out so well either. Every time something happened, either nothing happened, or shit happened.

Then I found two basic groups. There were the debunkers and arch skeptics who claimed NOTHING was there, period; and then there were the believers who believed every light in the sky PROVED aliens were visiting earth. It's a rare forum that is both highly skeptical, BUT knows something is going on, is run by grown-ups seasoned in the field, and encourages doubt and hope at the same time.

If it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't.

 

[brado]

I am not looking for a debate, honestly. Nor am I looking to sway anyone's opinion. I am just raising my hand yay or nay. I have no idea what trolling is so if I am doing something that flies in the face of proper forum etiquette, I would appreciate a little guidance so I do not offend.

I still haven't figured out how to pull a quote from a post to address it in a response so I will just respond to your final thought. I am not uncomfortable with the truth yet because the truth on this is not known just as the truth of the existence of God is not known. You take it on faith and on what you believe and what you believe is credible evidence. Should the undeniable truth come out in my lifetime, I will know then whether I am comfortable with the truth or not. I am not trying to convince myself of anything. I can only interpret the scoreboard the way I see it. Right now...show me the body, the disk, a piece of it. I keep looking for it! Send out a statement from the military stating something substantial and stick to it. I do not believe most people who stick to their convictions in this area of study are kooks or screwy. I respect their opinion and do not try to shoot down their position. I am just extremely "show me".

There are a few pictures or videos here and there that are hard to explain but when you present only the most solid and convincing evidence, it pales in comparison to all of the hype of the hucksters and their followers making the phenomenon look bigger than it is.

If my honest post offends some of the members the forums, I apologize. However, I posted in faith that this was a forum of critical thinkers and educated minds open to straight forward discourse. For those who feel that only those who "believe" should post in this forum, well, that is like making it a Trekkie convention...sci-fi. I take it more seriously than that.
Peace

 

[brado]

...well maybe not nothing. I am sure most people who claim they saw something actually saw something which means more than nothing is going on. I just want to see what they are talking about,just a leeeeedle bit...please...
Peace

 

[Experiencer7]

I am not looking for a debate, honestly. Nor am I looking to sway anyone's opinion. I am just raising my hand yay or nay. I have no idea what trolling is so if I am doing something that flies in the face of proper forum etiquette, I would appreciate a little guidance so I do not offend.

I still haven't figured out how to pull a quote from a post to address it in a response so I will just respond to your final thought. I am not uncomfortable with the truth yet because the truth on this is not known just as the truth of the existence of God is not known. You take it on faith and on what you believe and what you believe is credible evidence. Should the undeniable truth come out in my lifetime, I will know then whether I am comfortable with the truth or not. I am not trying to convince myself of anything. I can only interpret the scoreboard the way I see it. Right now...show me the body, the disk, a piece of it. I keep looking for it! Send out a statement from the military stating something substantial and stick to it. I do not believe most people who stick to their convictions in this area of study are kooks or screwy. I respect their opinion and do not try to shoot down their position. I am just extremely "show me".

There are a few pictures or videos here and there that are hard to explain but when you present only the most solid and convincing evidence, it pales in comparison to all of the hype of the hucksters and their followers making the phenomenon look bigger than it is.

If my honest post offends some of the members the forums, I apologize. However, I posted in faith that this was a forum of critical thinkers and educated minds open to straight forward discourse. For those who feel that only those who "believe" should post in this forum, well, that is like making it a Trekkie convention...sci-fi. I take it more seriously than that.
Peace

Kids., gotta love 'um.

 

[brado]

Kids., gotta love 'um.

Absolutely!

 

[Xylo]

See, I understand all of your points and I could easily side on either side of the picture. Honestly, up until a few episodes ago, I was really pulling for the type of truth we all want to hear to finally surface. However, my reasoning, with only a bit of research that minimal time allows, I will admit, does not allow me to give much credibility to most "eyewitness reports" and that seems to be the only "evidence" that we have. Pictures/videos...not so much, really.
B

I think a good place to start is researching some of the cases with correlating evidence: eyewitness + photos + radar or any combination of those. Rather than Roswell, which I will admit still fascinates me since I was born in New Mexico though I think any useful evidence is long gone, look to the Bentwaters case.

 

[brado]

Thank you. I will, and as always, with an open mind, the curiosity of a child and the wariness of trout.
Peace

 

[Gareth]

Brado... just press the 'Quote' button in the bottom right of the post you want to respond to.

I see you have thanked some posts... the quote button is just to the left of the 'Thanks' button.

 

[brado]

Brado... just press the 'Quote' button in the bottom right of the post you want to respond to.

Ah, so I just type under each point I want to respond to and plug in the tags to make each a separate quote? Testing....

I see you have thanked some posts... the quote button is just to the left of the 'Thanks' button.

BINGO! Thank you, much appreciated. Startin' to feel a little love here!
Peace
B

 

[Unky]

Thank you. I will, and as always, with an open mind,

Now you're gettin' it....

This is a change in attitude from your first post. A negative reaction is almost guaranteed when making proclamations about either what "is" or what "is not" reality without citation, evidence, or data to support the opinion. Statements made this way will launch you into unsolicited debate every time.

No one knows this better than the kooks over at CSICOP who have been cursed for decades by their own scientific precept: "You can't prove a negative"
....the most you can do is attempt to smother it with facts.

The folks in this forum have sought to extend you a fair degree of latitude because you're a new member but in the future be prepared to defend broad statements whether they be accepting or rejecting of any particular aspect of the subject.

 

[brado]

I think a good place to start is researching some of the cases with correlating evidence: eyewitness + photos + radar or any combination of those. Rather than Roswell, which I will admit still fascinates me since I was born in New Mexico though I think any useful evidence is long gone, look to the Bentwaters case.

....I spent over an hour looking at sites containing Bentwaters material. The only pictures I found were pictures of the base and pictures of the drawing of symbol type elements that the witness drew. It is very frustrating for me. all along I have been searching the internet for material on the most viable cases brought up here and in the show. The Bentwaters case seems to end up the same pot of "not really enough here" unless you value only the witness' testimony. Out of your equation of E+P+R, the only combination I can find on Bentwaters is E. If you could point me to a site with more than the re-tellings of the witness' story, it would be much appreciated.
Many Thanks for the discussion.
B