Attention PC Users: Time to Get Over It!

[SiGiL]

^ Ohh I've noticed alright. It's also a better system overall.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

As much as I like Macs, there's no way it can compare to a personally build gaming PC. The whole point of a Mac is that it's almost like an appliance. Everything works well together because you can't really tinker with the hardware and cause any issues. A PC lets you tinker all you want, and if you know what you're doing, you can have something spectacularly powerful for games, but it doesn't come cheap.

I game on my Wii U, 3 DS, and PS 4 and my current iMac is used for other stuff, although at 7 years old, it's getting replaced soon.

 

[SiGiL]

A PC lets you tinker all you want, and if you know what you're doing, you can have something spectacularly powerful for games, but it doesn't come cheap.

I also have a ps4 only for their exclusives but anyhoo, that's a common misconception. You can build a powerful rig for a price of a PS4 or an X1. Also, the games are a lot cheaper than console games. Steam has great games on sale all year long, especially in winter and summer sales.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

That's actually not true - to get a better than console experience you're going to be paying as much for your graphics card as you do for a PS4. I just can't get into PC gaming as much as I've tried.

 

[SiGiL]

That's actually not true - to get a better than console experience you're going to be paying as much for your graphics card as you do for a PS4. I just can't get into PC gaming as much as I've tried.

You need to educate yourself in the subject. A PS4 is outfitted with the midrange optimized AMD HD 7870 which is outdated and discontinued (2 years old) An AMD R9 280 will blow that card away for a mere $189.99

Edit. Actually it's $169.99 after rebate.


SAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100373L Radeon R9 280 3GB 384-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support Video Card - Newegg.com (proof)

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Oh okay, cool. The information I found was saying that the best cards were over $550.
So you can build a good gaming PC for $400 that will be equivalent or better than a PS4? I did not think that was possible.
Keep in mind I know a hell of a lot about technology, but gaming PCs falls into my blind spot, because I prefer consoles for games, and if you don't play games, everything a PC does is done better with a Mac.

 

[SiGiL]

Oh okay, cool. The information I found was saying that the best cards were over $550.
So you can build a good gaming PC for $400 that will be equivalent or better than a PS4? I did not think that was possible.
Keep in mind I know a hell of a lot about technology, but gaming PCs falls into my blind spot, because I prefer consoles for games, and if you don't play games, everything a PC does is done better with a Mac.

Yes, some cards are over $1000 like Nvidia's Titan X but that will last you over 4 years because it's such a beast of a card. PC's are at least 3 years ahead of consoles in terms of hardware. It's the software part that's lacking due to most game companies putting their resources in consoles. This is due to them making more money with Sony, MS and Nintendo because they can charge more, for less production value. It's been like that for years.

As far as your Mac comment, I give up. You're just an Apple fan boy. I can't change that.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Now worries - you seem like one of those PC elitist people. You don't know much about consoles.

 

[SolarSailor]

One of the reasons OS X is a solid OS (other then its unix foundations) is that apple only have to account for a limited chipset and can tune the OS to levels Microsoft cannot because of the range of hardware that it has to account for. One of the interesting things is the parallel you can draw with game development. A console exclusive game can be optimised to work with the hardware available, therefore in some cases squeezing more performance out of the machine then is possible on a pc via drivers. You can do this by writing low level ASM language optimisations that speak directly to the processing hardware. It isn't always necessarily always the case that throwing more powerful hardware at something makes it perform better. You can take a game like ARMA III and run it on a high power rig and still get crappy FPS because the game engine is badly written for interaction with that chipset.

I am also surprised that there hasn't been a bigger mac exclusive gaming industry as it potentially has the ability to our perform PC hardware due to a smaller OS footprint.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

One of the reasons OS X is a solid OS (other then its unix foundations) is that apple only have to account for a limited chipset and can tune the OS to levels Microsoft cannot because of the range of hardware that it has to account for. One of the interesting things is the parallel you can draw with game development. A console exclusive game can be optimised to work with the hardware available, therefore in some cases squeezing more performance out of the machine then is possible on a pc via drivers. You can do this by writing low level ASM language optimisations that speak directly to the processing hardware. It isn't always necessarily always the case that throwing more powerful hardware at something makes it perform better. You can take a game like ARMA III and run it on a high power rig and still get crappy FPS because the game engine is badly written for interaction with that chipset.

Exactly right.

 

[Han]

Technology is only part of the equation, the operator is as, if not more important than the equipment.

In other words Mozart would still be Mozart, whether he used quill and ink, or a high end Mac or PC.

RE: Gaming consoles, the last one I bought was a Nintendo 64, I will not buy one again until they start making better ones, moving away from solid state game cartridges was a huge mistake in my eyes, because now all I need to do is buy a wired Xbox pad and my PC becomes a "console".

Personally things like graphics come way down my list when it comes to choosing a game, as do plot and storyline , I look for games that are challenging and most importantly fun.

I will give two contrasting examples: the relatively recent Xbox 1 Game Titan Fall (2014)
Graphics fantastic, storyline extensive, single player/campaign mode a joke, gameplay repetitive, and unrealistic. Huge advantages given to "paying" players i.e powerups etc. extra charges for new maps and content.

VS

Red Orchestra (tripwire interactive) 2006

Graphics by today's standards poor, storyline tiny, single player/campaign: none, gameplay realistic* and challenging with a steep curve, but very rewarding, new weapons maps and mods available free, and a SDK included as part of the original game cost. No powerups or advantages given by paying more money.


*for a computer game.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Worst things about gaming on a PC - no Mario.

 

[SolarSailor]

Technology is only part of the equation, the operator is as, if not more important than the equipment.

In other words Mozart would still be Mozart, whether he used quill and ink, or a high end Mac or PC.

RE: Gaming consoles, the last one I bought was a Nintendo 64, I will not buy one again until they start making better ones, moving away from solid state game cartridges was a huge mistake in my eyes, because now all I need to do is buy a wired Xbox pad and my PC becomes a "console".

Personally things like graphics come way down my list when it comes to choosing a game, as do plot and storyline , I look for games that are challenging and most importantly fun.

I will give two contrasting examples: the relatively recent Xbox 1 Game Titan Fall (2014)
Graphics fantastic, storyline extensive, single player/campaign mode a joke, gameplay repetitive, and unrealistic. Huge advantages given to "paying" players i.e powerups etc. extra charges for new maps and content.

VS

Red Orchestra (tripwire interactive) 2006

Graphics by today's standards poor, storyline tiny, single player/campaign: none, gameplay realistic* and challenging with a steep curve, but very rewarding, new weapons maps and mods available free, and a SDK included as part of the original game cost. No powerups or advantages given by paying more money.


*for a computer game.

This is more then a fair statement. I own modern consoles mainly because I have kids now (but I do indulge in some shooters or HD remakes like Resident Evil) when I have the time to not be slugging code out on my linux box. Games these days are really unimaginative and do not engage the player in the same way that older games did due to over reliance on visual effects (much like modern movies). Maybe one of the reasons games were so engrossing in the 80's and 90's was because the graphics weren't so good and you had to use imagination as well. I would like to see the kids of today play a text adventure on a BBC Micro XD

 

[PCarr]

Here at NASA, we've made peace. Macs and HP laptops live side by side, and you get to pick which one you want. It's roughly 50/50.

Of course, all the encryption and security stuff they put on the machines makes the Macs move at a more leisurely pace, but that's life in Big Government.

 

[SolarSailor]

Here at NASA, we've made peace. Macs and HP laptops live side by side, and you get to pick which one you want. It's roughly 50/50.

Of course, all the encryption and security stuff they put on the machines makes the Macs move at a more leisurely pace, but that's life in Big Government.

Ooo NASA has security on their machines these days, were lessons learned after Mr McKinnon broke into all those machines with no passwords

 

[PCarr]

Ooo NASA has security on their machines these days, were lessons learned after Mr McKinnon broke into all those machines with no passwords

Actually, it's more of a response to a few morons who had unencrypted personnel data (including SSNs) on their laptops, which were then stolen from their cars.

 

[SolarSailor]

The biggest security hole of them all. The user.

 

[Han]

PEBCAK*

*(Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard)

 

[SolarSailor]

Whilst on the topic of security and hardware, this has just popped up on my radar. Security researchers have developed a GPU keylogger. http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~mikepo/papers/gpukeylogger.eurosec13.pdf

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I am a PC user who handles IT for our all Mac agency when I am not programming. You can muck up a Mac just as easily as a PC. Shooting your Dell over what is likely either faulty hardware (which Macs are notorious for lately with faulty CPUs, batteries etc) or a PEBCAC issue is just ridiculous and clearly the sign of an overly stressed out guy who is likely making a tonne of errors in his frazzled state.

Also, Apple is now soldering RAM to the motherboard now? Yeah, the only upgrade path is to buy ANOTHER completely over-priced machine... Yeah, that's smart. Also, Mac OSX is no longer intuitive, it is just intrusive.

Honestly, Apple used to be the underdog rebel who forged new grounds and empower users with options and control over their own experience and as ridiculous as it sounds, today that that better describes Microsoft these days.

People in the industry these days are surprisingly computer illiterate when it comes to basic fundamentals like best practices, naming conventions, file management and basic computer maintenance and upkeep. Of course, they are also the loudest to call fall when the computer they haven't restarted in three days suddenly freezes up on them.

TLDR: I can buy two more powerful PCs for the price of your Mac. And we can both screw up our computers if we don't treat them properly.

Edit: Complete disclosure, I use a Mac at work and a PC at night so I am well versed with day to day use of each.