Aztec (Feb. 28th)

[Ezechiel]

Aztec makes for an interesting story...

I'm starting to think that the post WWII - pre 'cold war' context may have been special in more that one way. A quantum leap in human technology forces the world AND ET visitors to adjust

Wild speculation starts:

It may have been an adjustment period for a certain race of aliens visiting earth. Perhaps the adjustment to a new environment involving the presence of intense high-frequency radio waves was not done. This could possibly indicate that their craft uses them to adjust their position in space. This could also explain why we haven't heard about 'Aztec and Roswell' type events all over the world. They've adjusted their rigs

I don't see any other rationale that could support Aztec and Roswell type events in the short (1947-1948 ) time frame: an unexpected change in an environment that has never changed. New parameters that never needed to be factored in (radars and nukes)

 

[ZombieOctopus]

I'm so, soooo tired of Roswell and Aztec.

Don't get me wrong, Frank was a great co-host, both him and Gene asked some thoughtful questions and the guest was very knowledgeable... but you can only beat a dead horse so many ways.

I really wish the UFO community as a whole would just collectively agree to move on from these cold, dead end cases. When Scott said he could spend another 20 or 30 years on Aztec, I wanted to cry. He hasn't even contributed anything substantial in how ever many decades he's been at it so far, why keep going! Doing a core sample of a slab of concrete that ultimately led to absolutely nothing and showing you can haul a wide load through the area isn't that progressive.

I'm sure he worked really hard on his book and videos and lectures and whatever else he's selling, but wheres the hard evidence that justifies 20-30 more years of investigation? Nothing he said got me even remotely excited and I want to be excited.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Well I can't wait to purchase Scott's new book signed I hope and he sounds like a guy who knows his stuff. It sounds better than Roswell story which has become overdone . Wonder how many crashed or landings in were in Canada, Atlantic and Antarctic at this time:question:

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I'm so, soooo tired of Roswell and Aztec.

Don't get me wrong, Frank was a great co-host, both him and Gene asked some thoughtful questions and the guest was very knowledgeable... but you can only beat a dead horse so many ways.

I really wish the UFO community as a whole would just collectively agree to move on from these cold, dead end cases. When Scott said he could spend another 20 or 30 years on Aztec, I wanted to cry. He hasn't even contributed anything substantial in how ever many decades he's been at it so far, why keep going! Doing a core sample of a slab of concrete that ultimately led to absolutely nothing and showing you can haul a wide load through the area isn't that progressive.

I'm sure he worked really hard on his book and videos and lectures and whatever else he's selling, but wheres the hard evidence that justifies 20-30 more years of investigation? Nothing he said got me even remotely excited and I want to be excited.

This is the dilemma. Do we leave these old cases dead and buried or try to cross the T's and dot the I's in hopes that something earth-shattering will be discovered? I don't pretend to know. This show came to light in response to Kevin Randle's skepticism of the case. Once Ramsey's book is out, we'll have them both back to debate the issue, and I'll probably bring Frank back on as guest co-host to help keep it focused. But I don't see that book happening for a while yet.

 

[AdamI]

I'm not opposed to a debate show as Gene mentions, but I do think that we should leave these cases alone for the most part unless major new information surfaces.

I think that's the right approach. Police departments generally only revive cold cases if something breaks.

I think we can summarize thus:

With Roswell, we have substantial evidence that something unusual crashed and that the government still may be giving us the runaround about what it was. We have some witnesses of varying credibility to the effect that it might have been something truly exotic like an ET spacecraft, but we have no proof.

With Aztec we have less than Roswell. We have some circumstantial evidence that something crashed and was removed from the site, possibly something large and/or heavy. It could have been a "flying wing" or similar secret tech... I recall them mentioning that possibility but never quite coming up with anything to completely dismiss it.

So yeah, a little more would be ok, but I'd leave these alone unless something breaks.

So where should the Paracast go from here? I almost feel like the Paracast has mined the UFO field pretty barren at this point. We know what we know, and don't know what we don't know.

I've often suggested that attempting to tell "signal from noise" in fields such as conspiracy/parapolitics or other paranormal fields might be worthwhile. A long project of signal-mining in the conspiracy area like you've done with UFOs could really be interesting.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

We get into conspiracy discussions with Jim Marrs on March 7th. Yes, we do intend to cast a wider net with our future episodes.

 

[trainedobserver]

The idea that Radar knocked these things down seems unreasonable unless they weren't interstellar craft at all. It seems any propulsion system that would be designed to operate in space would have to deal with more microwave radiation than any Radar system could throw at it. And even if they were not meant for operation in space it would still seem to be an incredible design flaw. It is about as ridiculous as plot devices used in movies like "Signs" where invading aliens are neutralized by water. They didn't notice they were invading a water planet? Even in the classic "War of t.he Worlds" the aliens are so stupid as to have not considered the micro-biological component of the world they are "visiting."

 

[ZombieOctopus]

Crossing T's and dotting I's is OK, but writing a full length book about 4 and a half pages of new material really only happens in ufology lol

In any other field, Scott's contribution would condense nicely into a letter to the editor.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Crossing T's and dotting I's is OK, but writing a full length book about 4 and a half pages of new material really only happens in ufology lol

In any other field, Scott's contribution would condense nicely into a letter to the editor.

I think you're belittling years of research. I expect his book will be quite a comprehensive look at every known nook and cranny in that case. Certainly as an historical document, it may be the last word not the subject, since it's doubtful anyone else will bother. More to the point, I also think that it's helpful to have a reference book, but, yes, it's pretty much time to move on.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I'm so, soooo tired of Roswell and Aztec.

Don't get me wrong, Frank was a great co-host, both him and Gene asked some thoughtful questions and the guest was very knowledgeable... but you can only beat a dead horse so many ways.

I really wish the UFO community as a whole would just collectively agree to move on from these cold, dead end cases. When Scott said he could spend another 20 or 30 years on Aztec, I wanted to cry. He hasn't even contributed anything substantial in how ever many decades he's been at it so far, why keep going! Doing a core sample of a slab of concrete that ultimately led to absolutely nothing and showing you can haul a wide load through the area isn't that progressive.

I'm sure he worked really hard on his book and videos and lectures and whatever else he's selling, but wheres the hard evidence that justifies 20-30 more years of investigation? Nothing he said got me even remotely excited and I want to be excited.

I came here to make the same points, but you have already done so beautifully. Thank you! I thought Stanton Friedman or someone "reputable" in this field said recently that it seemed that ufology was in some sort of retro-nostalgia fad, and that he could not believe anyone was bringing up Aztec, which he thought had been 100% debunked! Yet, here we go again. The same thing goes for Mackabee (?) obsessing on the 1974 New Zealand missing airplane case. Geez, I first heard about that on the TV show IN SEARCH OF back around 1976. Is THIS the best material to investigate, cases from so long ago? Is ufology now either an Expolitics Party of Fantasy or an archeological dig?

I love the PARACAST but I had to turn this episode off after about 2/3's of it. I was falling asleep. Frank and Gene are great, but the topic was about as interesting as an infocommercial on how to make cardboard boxes. In a wierd way, I am embarrassed for ufology when the people obsess on things that happened so long ago. Of course, I'm the same person who couldn't care less at this point who killed JFK. Let the man rest in peace, for god's sake! Most of the people now occupying the planet were not even born yet when his tragic death occurred.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The episode was precipitated by Randle's negative comments. I don't expect we'll revisit the story, unless or until we can have a proper pro and con debate.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

The episode was precipitated by Randle's negative comments. I don't expect we'll revisit the story, unless or until we can have a proper pro and con debate.

Gene, this isn't the time or place, what but the hey! Did you get the package I sent? You should have received it on Friday or Saturday last week. I just wanted confirmation that you got it, so I can rest easy about that. Thanks.

Note: My PC is dieing, and I lost all my email address book entries, so that is why I am taking such a crass public way of asking.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene, this isn't the time or place, what but the hey! Did you get the package I sent? You should have received it on Friday or Saturday last week. I just wanted confirmation that you got it, so I can rest easy about that. Thanks.

Note: My PC is dieing, and I lost all my email address book entries, so that is why I am taking such a crass public way of asking.

Yes, thank you.

Now everyone is going to ask what this is all about.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Yes, thank you.

Now everyone is going to ask what this is all about.

I'll come clean: I sent Gene some Hot alien hybrid porn flicks. I filmed them while on Mars recently. I used Harry Potter's/Alfred Webre's Vanishing Cabinet to get to Mars and back on my lunch hour. I must admit that alien hybrid porn is an acquired taste since none of the hybrids have sex organs! Oh, well....Gene is a bit strange, y'know.

 

[ZombieOctopus]

I think you're belittling years of research

But what did he come up with? In all seriousness, if you belittle something you're taking a large body of evidence and you make it look insignificant. What evidence? He barely presented anything at all. He talked about a reporter with photos that turned out not to exist, declassified documents that basically say; "some guys say there were aliens - produced no evidence of aliens - case closed", a slab of concrete, big trucks existed at the time, you can drive a big truck through there, some very old people told him what he wanted to hear in a convincing way, some other very old people told him it didn't happen and he disregarded them.

I'm not belittling his effort, that's a completely different issue, I'm certain he put lots of time into this project, but no one buys a book based upon the effort of the author.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

But what did he come up with? In all seriousness, if you belittle something you're taking a large body of evidence and you make it look insignificant. What evidence? He barely presented anything at all. He talked about a reporter with photos that turned out not to exist, declassified documents that basically say; "some guys say there were aliens - produced no evidence of aliens - case closed", a slab of concrete, big trucks existed at the time, you can drive a big truck through there, some very old people told him what he wanted to hear in a convincing way, some other very old people told him it didn't happen and he disregarded them.

I'm not belittling his effort, that's a completely different issue, I'm certain he put lots of time into this project, but no one buys a book based upon the effort of the author.

I hope I'm not going to start another political tempest in a teapot with this analogy, but here goes: some people put 20-30 years into Creation Science too, and have even created a Museum in Kentucky with pictures of people riding dinasaurs when the earth was young (about 6000 years ago). Most of their research began in the 60's when they were inspired by THE FLINTSTONES, a mini-series documentary about life in the early days of our world.

My point? Many people waste their lives on totally stupid ideas and projects. So what? Do I care or want to hear about it?

 

[ZombieOctopus]

Don't hold back now lol

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Don't hold back now lol

I apologize if I'm getting too cranky. At the rate I'm going, I'll be as loony as Senator Bunning from Kentucky. Ouch! THERE I GO AGAIN! Dang, I gotta gain control of my fingers. I am trying to exert control....they are fighting me.....ban the US Senate....stop it! (breathing deeply from heavy exertion of control). I must think peaceful thoughts....little children on skateboards laughing and playing as they run down little old ladies at a strip mall....NO! NO! Stop it!

I know! Someone gave me Whitley Strieber's CRITICAL MASS novel about terrorist mass destruction. I should try reading that today.

Someone lurking over my shoulder just suggested I stop eating chocolate covered M&Ms for breakfast - that might help.

Anyway, I was pondering the way ufology seems to be going nostalgic recently. One example is Stanton Friedman focusing on a couple ancient cases. One was Betty & Barney Hill. Can't remember the other one. I am not saying this is really bad, per se, but I find it a bit boring since I've been around for the original versions of these episodes.

I simply ask this in humble servitude: please don't book someone on the PARACAST who wants to talk again about the "ACORN" that crash landed near a farm in Pennsylvania (I think) about 40 or more years ago. With the way ufology is going, I expect someone to reopen that crypt too.

 

[Ezechiel]

The idea that Radar knocked these things down seems unreasonable unless they weren't interstellar craft at all. It seems any propulsion system that would be designed to operate in space would have to deal with more microwave radiation than any Radar system could throw at it. And even if they were not meant for operation in space it would still seem to be an incredible design flaw. It is about as ridiculous as plot devices used in movies like "Signs" where invading aliens are neutralized by water. They didn't notice they were invading a water planet? Even in the classic "War of t.he Worlds" the aliens are so stupid as to have not considered the micro-biological component of the world they are "visiting."

On War of the Worlds, my feelings exactly LOL.

However the radar component is a bit different. Imagine for a moment that an alien specie has been coming here for at least half a million years, has never needed to re-calibrate its craft and decided to tag our world as static. I would at least give a benefit of doubt to the idea that suddenly bombarding our airspace with high-frequency radio wave in a nuclear-ready zone might have interfered with their craft.

IMHO, This is a few credibility notches above War of the Worlds.... but then this is total speculation and better movie material !!

In other words, our transition to the nuclear age and higher technologies disrupted the operations of entities working at a higher levels. Roswell and Aztec crafts were the first unprepared victims of that shockwave . Don't forget that the last 100 years has seen unprecedented technological evolution.

 

[trainedobserver]

However the radar component is a bit different. Imagine for a moment that an alien specie has been coming here for at least half a million years, has never needed to re-calibrate its craft and decided to tag our world as static. I would at least give a benefit of doubt to the idea that suddenly bombarding our airspace with high-frequency radio wave in a nuclear-ready zone might have interfered with their craft.

I guess ...but wouldn't they have to deal with far worse being emitted from various stars and other objects while traveling through space? In fact couldn't our own sun whack the earth with far worse than the output of a radar system?

Maybe we took them by surprise but there again, hadn't they been paying attention to what we were doing? And also, we shoot them down and they don't recover their craft or crew? They are so concerned with our technological development as to monitor our nuclear sites yet neglect to retrieve technology and biological material we would find "advanced" and no doubt exploit? Doesn't make sense does it? Sounds like a plot for a made for Canadian (ouch) T.V. movie.

It seems more probable that it was an intentional planting of material (real or 'simulated') by parties unknown for nefarious purposes we can only guess at. But ... that's just another guess of course. It seems to me that true aliens would be truly inscrutable and anything that they would do (or claims made about what they would do) must necessarily be viewed with the utmost suspicion.