Bassett makes perfect sense

[Schuyler]

Getting rid of the 'demon/angel' noise obscuring the phenomena will definitely help. Ultimately, the perfection of our detection tools will get us there.

Yeah, but, ummm, (Geez, this is terrible!) what if the demon/angel thing is part of the equation? David mentioned this in conjunction with the inter-dimensional hypothesis a couple of weeks ago. Strieber, in his FICTION (Thank God!) 'Majestic' discusses this idea that the Alien Guys (tm) are on the 'Other Side' manipulating our souls to their advantage. The idea is that once we all wake up dead we will realize the atheists were actually quite wrong and that the various religions, though not exactly 'correct' 100% on much of anything, are actually on the right track. The Alien Guys (tm), on the other hand, have figured out that 'religion' and science merge at some point. This is when science figures out that this 'Let there be light' thing is a metaphor for the Big Bang and religion figures out that science is the path to salvation. That doesn't prove God, Jesus, or the 72 virgins, but it does preclude the idea that the advance of atheism will provide truth (or Disclosure).

I have no idea if this synopsis is anywhere near reality and I could not even begin to try to prove it. It's kind of a working hypothesis that needs, well, a lot more work. I guess I can only hope our 'detection tools' are up to the task.

 

[Ezechiel]

The idea is that once we all wake up dead we will realize the atheists were actually quite wrong and that the various religions, though not exactly 'correct' 100% on much of anything, are actually on the right track.

LOL, if you can build a solid case that supports this... hey why not.

Its when you cross the absolutist line without a valid defense that you're in trouble The best road available right now to get from point A to B is science and a solid methodic approach.

When you resort to bat-shit instead of building solid foundations, you'll get blown away and ridiculed. That seems to be Bassett's destiny.

 

[skunkape]

You're gonna have to connect the dots for me here.

I'm not getting paid to connect dots today. I am dots...for free. Keep saying smart stuff. I think it's purty.

 

[Invading the fridge]

The main message that I recorded from this exchange is that Steven Bassett’s exo-politics/disclosure agenda has nothing to do with protecting the subject of ufo from ridicule but even maybe actually amplify it. Like he said, he’s after the government and its policy of keeping a truth-embargo and I think his strategy is brilliant.

Brilliant in bringing the eye rolling and curtain of laughter.

By promoting a ‘Barnum and Bailey’ type circus of guests, he’ll be showcasing the outcome of 60 years of truth embargo and the next wave of wild belief systems and semi-religions that are emerging around the subject. I figure he’s gambling that the government will get the point once the high strangeness gurus start building momentum with their extreme speculations and transform a superpower into a laughing-stock. You don’t build a critical mass only with highly credible elite. You get the whole orchestra involved and use the elite to snipe at the noisy negativists… makes perfect sense. But I honestly think, this is something Bassett couldn’t disclose without damaging his X-conference.

That alot sense

nonsense!

The pressure of ridicule is greater than the pressure of credibility. I think he’s right. When the world turns to France, U.K., Chile, Mexico, Denmark, Canada, etc… for honesty, you’ve got a problem. Would you really expect a country struggling with intelligent design issues to disclose in the short run? Yikes!<o></o>

Intelligent design problems? You can't be talking about the U.K right? Because that's a rising problem there.

At this point in time, the U.S. should concentrate on restoring the credibility of science (at least among a majority of its people), invest in education and protect the division of church and state. Evolution and scientific progress are really the true foundations enabling the idea of the potential presence of an extra-terrestrial component in our lives.

So science lost credibility because the US hasn't disclose it's ufo files?

 

[Ezechiel]

Brilliant in bringing the eye rolling and curtain of laughter.

That alot sense

nonsense!


Intelligent design problems? You can't be talking about the U.K right? Because that's a rising problem there.


So science lost credibility because the US hasn't disclose it's ufo files?

LOL. Sorry you had to bite on my post. It was what you call a parody... sarcasm

I tried to make a convincing case for Bassett. It almost worked ... (geez I almost started believing what I was writing LOL !!!)

I think policing the field is the key (I'd put Stanton Friedman as master judge LOL). But Bassett would prefer a cash-cow circus for the masses.

What would really help this field is some sort of parallel reviewing board that functions a bit like a modern court. Each compelling case would have the witnesses and evidence (radar data, photographs...) put on trial. A win would mean public money in the pot for investigation and lawyer fees (and a huge gain in credibility), a loss would flush the case (but would still get people thinking). There are also many cases won without evidence in regular courts ... why should a different standard apply for UFO's ?

I'd actually prefer this over an all-out one-time shock-and-awe disclosure. It would get the masses in tune with the phenomena... and this subject could get its deserved credibility... or not !

How much did the government spend refuting the Roswell incident ? with that silly book ?

 

[dad2059]

Bassett bat-shit crazy like a fox?

I doubt it.

He's done this so long now, he's actually bought into his own meme.

Just plain bat-shit crazy like any religious guru.

 

[Ezechiel]

Bassett bat-shit crazy like a fox?
I doubt it.
He's done this so long now, he's actually bought into his own meme.
Just plain bat-shit crazy like any religious guru.

That pretty much explains his fear of scrutiny a la McCarthy :

'Are you a serious investigator of the field of the UFO phenomenon sir, or building a flea circus'

 

[Schuyler]

LOL, if you can build a solid case that supports this... hey why not.

Its when you cross the absolutist line without a valid defense that you're in trouble The best road available right now to get from point A to B is science and a solid methodic approach.

Yup, that old 'scientific method' as we know it. Put Stan Friedman in charge and find out the truth with our scientific measuring devices. That's a nuts & bolts approach, and for the rationalist/reductionist people in the crowd that is absolutely their only choice. If you can't see it, feel it, touch it, or measure it, it does NOT exist, period. As a reaction against bat shit, this is certainly undestandable. It is why I was a dyed in the wool atheist for half a century.

For those people who have been studying this issue for awhile now--not those who have recently come across it and intend to fix it in a heartbeat with their superior scientific knowledge and methods--it is apparent that something more is going on. What that is exactly is open to debate. And, for the record, it is what makes this issue more interesting. It may be that it is just vastly superior science (Note: Trot out Arthur C. Clarke quote on magic here). Read Jaques Vallee's works, certainly a qualified scientist, then come back and explain to us why he is wrong.

The problem with this approach, as I see it, is that you are likely to fly right by the intersection and not make the turn because you are so convinced you are on the right path to begin with. I see no qualitative difference to someone who knows, for certain, that the only true path to salvation is through accepting Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior. Amen. There's no difference in attitude here. Both are absolutist and extreme. And both suffer the tendancy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The original point of this thread, that Bassett is bat shit crazy, is not in dispute. Agreed: Bassett is bat shit crazy and ineffective.

 

[mike]

the thing is at the end of the day, it all boils down to one simple statement.

we want an explaination

it doesnt matter what the explaination is, ET's ,Trans d's, cryptos etc etc

the nature of explainations, any and all explainations is nuts and bolts.

any answer that "satisfys" will only do so because we can measure the data in that answer and confirm it to a standard of internal satisfaction we call proof.

i like to think im as open to the possibilitys as i can be, hubris aside i think im more open to more possibilitys than those i encounter in the "real" world on a daily basis.

but if i do get an explaination, it will by the very nature of explainations be "nuts and bolts" so to speak

 

[Ezechiel]

It is why I was a dyed in the wool atheist for half a century.

I see no qualitative difference to someone who knows, for certain, that the only true path to salvation is through accepting Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior. Amen. There's no difference in attitude here. Both are absolutist and extreme. And both suffer the tendancy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The original point of this thread, that Bassett is bat shit crazy, is not in dispute. Agreed: Bassett is bat shit crazy and ineffective.

I'll give you absolute reason on that point

My interest is in the mechanical aspects of the UFO issue. There could very well be a spiritual component in this but resolving the nuts and bolts aspects first might be a bit more accessible to the masses... especially in these times of religion-based turmoil.

I think the ufo community would have a better chance of gaining credibility if it would concentrate on the civilizations that may be solving time/space issues in the physical world and doing inter-stellar travel on a regular basis using the ressources of this dimension.

A billion year old civilization may potentially be inter-dimensional, who knows... with all the implicit meta-physical implications.

Addressing a range of potential civilizations that could be as old as the current universe (or more if you believe in multi-verses) may not be the best idea.

Remember Ellie Arroway's father in Contact: 'Small steps Ellie'

 

[wicro]

The problem with this approach, as I see it, is that you are likely to fly right by the intersection and not make the turn because you are so convinced you are on the right path to begin with. I see no qualitative difference to someone who knows, for certain, that the only true path to salvation is through accepting Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior. Amen. There's no difference in attitude here. Both are absolutist and extreme. And both suffer the tendancy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The original point of this thread, that Bassett is bat shit crazy, is not in dispute. Agreed: Bassett is bat shit crazy and ineffective.

While I agree with your sentiment, I would disagree that a rationalist approach necessarily equates to the same as religious dogma. By definition a rationalist will change their position if there is sufficient 'hard' evidence, where as religion, though subject to social forces, does not change fundamentally in any circumstance even when presented with the 'facts'. There is a place within 'paranormal' research for rationalist thinking in my opinion. For instance I'm sure a lot of parapsychologists would subscribe to this world view, or even if they don't they use the same methodology which may in turn lead to solutions to other 'paranormal' phenomena. We may not like the perceived dogma, but it can provide a useful purpose.

That being said, I entirely agree that a purely rationalist/reductionist reading of the 'paranormal' would be counter productive. The 'hyper - skeptical' view of dismissing all eye witness testimony as false or pathological seems far too an extreme position to take and would surely be counter productive to any solution.

 

[Schuyler]

Well, I haven't given up my faith in science entirely (though the wording there is significant). I believe everything is ultimately 'explainable' in scientific terms. In that sense everything is nuts & bolts, as long as we don't insist they are only made of steel alloys. I'm not sure your rationalist/reductionist will actually change his or her mind upon new evidence. They normally meet new theories with scorn.

Plate Tectonics is a good example. (Sorry: Geology minor) When Plate Tectonics was advanced as a theory by Alfred Wegener, scientists in favor of the geosynclinal theory didn't say, "Hmm. That looks interesting, let's test this out," but greeted his theory with laughter, scorn, and derision. So much for being 'objective.' As the weight of evidence accumulated the critics either died off from old age, or reluctantly accepted the fact that his theory was on target. I understand that the scientific community ultimately accepted Plate Tectonics, so that appears to validate the scientific method, but after understanding what happened to Wegener, you know why those interested in tenure don't want to rock the boat.

We're having a similar debate now on so-called 'Climate Change.' Even though there is a large body of evidence and thousands of scientists who say Global Warming is horse shit, it's not politically correct to challenge the issue because so many 'scientists' have decided it is true. Besides, you can't get research dollars to 'prove' it isn't true. It has also become the darling of the political left and the MSM. Eventually we'll get through this issue and 'science will prevail.' It's just that in the meantime a lot of people suffer and decisions are made based on the prevailing point of view that have a good chance of being wrong.

Same thing happened to Dr. John Mack of Harvard, who was studying abduction phenomena. He failed to heed warnings from his colleagues and Dean and was headed toward the same fate as Timothy Leary (also a Harvard professor), but he died in a car accident, and this actually 'saved' him from what was shaping up to be a fight to retain his professorship. If scientists actually followed the scientific method religiously then I think it is the best method going, but unfortunately science is laced with emotion, politics, agendas, and even profit (Bowing to BrandonD), making it as vulnerable to progress as any other endeavor.

 

[Ezechiel]

It's just that in the meantime a lot of people suffer and decisions are made based on the prevailing point of view that have a good chance of being wrong.

It usually takes a few hits on the old block head to get change. When insurance companies are no longer capable of insuring businesses because of natural catastrophies. When actuaries figure that investing in green technology provides a better long term return than conventional energy because of human health/environmental impacts you'll get adjustments.

Cash is king in alot of cases. When the cost of black operations sticks out like a sore thumb in the middle of the deepest recession since the crash of 1929... you might get change

When Queen Isabella of Spain sent Christopher Columbus to pick up some gold in the americas the world lost its biblical flatness

 

[Mothra]

Disclosure will never happen and here's why

Human nature

This knowledge is guarded by people with great power and absolute control within our govt. if disclosure were to happen, those same people would lose power and most control over the greatest discovery in the history of mankind. Do you really think someone is going to give that up? I wouldn't.

The people sitting on this technology will continue to keep it in its little box, with the rest of their toys, and there it will stay. If you listen to bassett, almost everything he says is an assumption. He has no verifiable proof and data to backup anything he says in regards to disclousure. So like Greer he isn't really even saying anything.

These people were invited to the X-Conference to sell tickets, and thats it. Its not about the data, its about the shill.

 

[Ezechiel]

This knowledge is guarded by people with great power and absolute control within our govt. if disclosure were to happen, those same people would lose power and most control over the greatest discovery in the history of mankind.

That line of thought feeds something else. If they have absolute control, they necessarily must be working in concert with these external beings in order to contain disclosure and control the exposure of these extra-terrestrials .... there's always a boss somewhere

One interesting theory is that these beings are using the earth as a farm. Experimenting with life-forms, manipulating DNA, creating and testing new breeds to seed other new born solar systems. Sometimes they wipe the slate clean when the experiment goes sour LOL and terraform again. When they get bored they make these complex designs in wheat fields (crop circles) lol

Is this what lies behind disclosure ? A horrible truth that would reduce the entire human experience to an ant story ? ... Damn ! time to terraform again Yikes. Noah where are you

 

[Mothra]

One interesting theory is that these beings are using the earth as a farm. Experimenting with life-forms, manipulating DNA, creating and testing new breeds to seed other new born solar systems. Sometimes they wipe the slate clean when the experiment goes sour LOL and terraform again. When they get bored they make these complex designs in wheat fields (crop circles) lol

Its all UFO folklore. Nobody knows anything. People don't have any answers so they start making up their own. Then all of a sudden its fact. I don't think these beings want anything to do with us. I think their interaction with us is just a by-product of there real objective, what ever the hell that is.

Look at all the Freemason stories and conspiricies. The Skull and bones or what ever those idiots are called. People don't know what goes on inside so they start making stuff up. These groups like it because it adds mystery and keeps them relevent. They are just organizations that have a bunch of old white guys doing little rituals, and it makes them feel important.

I don't think these beings are in control of us. They are probably scared shitless lol. I mean could you imagine what would happen to the world if these beings just announced that they are here? Think about all the religious people around the world. The planet would be on fire from one end to the other.

 

[Ezechiel]

I don't think these beings are in control of us. They are probably scared shitless lol. I mean could you imagine what would happen to the world if these beings just announced that they are here? Think about all the religious people around the world. The planet would be on fire from one end to the other.

You're right, the religious aspect is a sensitive one. That's why the vatican recently acknowledged that there might be life elsewhere in the universe and that they were also God's children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7399661.stm

Another interesting theory is Stanton Friedman's: 'We are in quarantine and there's no way they'll let us wander around until we get our act together, we are an aggressive race. I totally agree with them'.

This would be in sync with all the mysterious probing behaviors of strange crafts described by thousands of witnesses. But I personally find it a bit judgemental

One event that compelled me was the O'hare incident. I put myself in the shoes of an emerging ET race that observed strange activity on our planet and wanted to document it. O'hare happens to be the busiest airport in the world. If you had a probe to send.... where would you send it ? Terminal C at O'hare might have statistically been the most interesting point on a planetery scale from the perspective of an approaching alien probe. It drops down, does a cursory scan, and flies out again.

We may be in quarantine in regards to certain races but within 50 light-years of earth there are 2000 star systems. Once we've broken the light-speed barrier, the first thing we'll do is catalog our galactic sector at breakneck speed. Wouldn't you do the same ? Its a no-brainer.... especially from a military standpoint.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html

 

[wicro]

Well >snip< endeavor.

Again I agree with you. But I think you are over generalizing 'scientists' as if they were a homogeneous group. Certainly sociology and psychology have produced research that does show that despite 'hard' sciences best attempts there is no such thing as being completely objective. In fact sociology has a whole branch dedicated to 'the sociology of scientific knowledge'. This has become more problematic as pure science has been more and more politicized. I'm in the middle of negotiating to do a Phd on sociological aspects of the 'paranormal' and as you can imagine the funding opportunities here are zero, despite the wide spread interest within the public sphere (So I guess I'm just going to fund it myself, I pity my wife).

However,I would still argue that rationalist methodology has a place along side the ethnography, and qualitative data that can be accumulated through the more traditional routes used by UFOlogy (and barring parapsychologists paranormal research in general). To use your analogy again we certainly don't want to throw any 'hard evidence' of baby's out with the baby bathwater!

I mean for all its faults, it certainly beats Bassets 'research' methods!

 

[Schuyler]

Its all UFO folklore. Nobody knows anything. People don't have any answers so they start making up their own.

I agree completely. For example, here's one:

This knowledge is guarded by people with great power and absolute control within our govt. if disclosure were to happen, those same people would lose power and most control over the greatest discovery in the history of mankind.

 

[Tommy Allison]

Here's something to ponder.

If you were a race of Extra-Terrestrials, with near God Like technology and abilities. Would you want to empower a bunch of talking monkeys?

Essentially, that's all we are. We live and act like greedy monkeys.

We don't live for the improvement of humanity, or to cure all our ills. We could have life expectancies of 900 years or more, free from disease, and yet in the name of profit and control, we do not.

Ever notice how it's always the same people, with the same beliefs in power, in all places?

The Human Race is something that should be surpassed.

The government is not dealing with Aliens, or made an alliance with them. They're about as relevant as a termite on an ant hill in South America to the universe. The only thing they wish to control, is their illusion that they can be all things to all people. They can no more protect you, or anyone else from abduction, or mutilation at the hands of aliens, than they can protect you from a terrorist attack, murder, rape, car accident, drowning, or any other horrific fate that might befall you.

They have the illusion of power, which is why so many people follow oh so blindly.

Imagine though, if that illusion were destroyed completely. The government might have some captured UFO technology, or a few alien bodies, but they sure as shit don't have an alliance with an alien species. A superior race of beings that can travel across the universe, that have limitless power and technology needs absolutely NOTHING from humanity.

We have nothing to bargain with. No leverage. No threat to them, or their welfare.

The nonsense spouted by people who have written books on the so called Alien / Government alliance should be destroyed. The only collusion in regards to aliens, is between the governments of the world. Some governments are telling their secrets, because their people need a distraction.

When our economy tanks, expect disclosure. That way people can be distracted by something other than their lack of prosperity.