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Billy Meier
- Thread starter teacheroffools
- Start date
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Cygnus X1
Paranormal Novice
Aspie said:
I'm a little new on the Meier case, other then reading "Light Years" a while back. I just got interested again after hearing M. Horn on Coast to Coast last week so please fill me in on what HWSNBN is?
As for what the analysts said they are quoted at the bottom of this document http://www.iigwest.com/horn/02_15_04_Email.pdf.
I assume thats what they actually said, to quote something that is inaccurate constitutes libel.
Cygnus X1
Paranormal Novice
CapnG said:
I was half kidding there.
Whats odd to me is that at first there are hundreds of pictures that defy the experts. Over a hundred eyewitnesses to the craft, metal samples sounds etc. It seems the case is headed maybe for some kind of critical mass in the public conciousness.
Then a new craft appears, some of the photos look ridiculous. The garbage can lid thing explodes. Evidence disappears or appears falsified. To me this sounds like the work of a disinformation crew. Why publish these photos that are crummy when there are so many amazing ones? Was their awareness (the Plejarans) growing too fast and they decided to pull in the reins a bit?
Why would they pick an unknown farmer in Switzerland and not the Dalai Lama or president? Maybe they don't want to try and side with someone in political power.
I know all this sounds crazy and believe me I hop back in forth on my opinion about it, but it sure is fascinating stuff to think about. You have to admit it would be awesome if the Plejarans did exist - someone made it to spacefaring status and didn't destroy themselves in the process. It gives one hope I guess.
First, you need to know that the experts examination mention so much by MH was never really done to an original photo or a negative for that matter, it was made to "Lithograph". And never go and read MH site which is full of misquoting the so called expert. Here is an example of how MH plays mind games misquoting people:
MH wrote all over the net that James Randi retracted his claim that the Meier case is a hoax. Just because after a lot correspondence between them Randi wrote this:
"Gee, I just so hope to find those magic words in there that
will tell me Michael is coming up with the metal….! On each
of his rantings, I do a search for “metal” and it just doesn’t
give me the eagerly-anticipated information…. I understand
that Michael’s busy obfuscating madly, thrashing about
trying to cover over The Question, so I’ll bear up as best I
can. Now, Michael has divined that I called the Meier case a
“hoax.” His powers of perception are REMARKABLE; he
finds things where they don’t exist! Wonderful!
But he’s up against the wall, so go easy on him.
James Randi"
http://www.iigwest.com/horn/03_28_04_Randi_3A.pdf
See he clearly still today thinks meier is a hoax, he simple said he never called a hoax, never said something like oh sorry MH I retracted my believe about meier being a hoax, now I believe in meier...... see the game?
That is how MH misquote people to later make it look at his favor.
Still don't believe? look at this site: http://www.iigwest.com/horn.shtml
Does that look like someone that doesn't believe that the case is a hoax?
If you are new to reading about it MH confuse the hell of you with lies, that is how he sells the dvds...... and about the so called "eyewitnesses" I suggest you go and read what they said, it's pretty laughtable. No to mention that most of them are figu members. LOL!
Another thing that I am tired of is MH always put that woman (?) as #1 witnesses just because when she was "10 years old" a woman came to her bed and touched her hair!!! or saw meier walking with a woman?
TEN YEARS OLD!!!!! OH YEAH IT WAS AN ALIEN WOMAN I SAW. LOL GEEZ!
NOTE: All those quotes MH always post from "the expert" are not the full quotes they wrote, he just take the parts that he likes, and made them illustrate something completely different of what they really wrote or said.
MH wrote all over the net that James Randi retracted his claim that the Meier case is a hoax. Just because after a lot correspondence between them Randi wrote this:
"Gee, I just so hope to find those magic words in there that
will tell me Michael is coming up with the metal….! On each
of his rantings, I do a search for “metal” and it just doesn’t
give me the eagerly-anticipated information…. I understand
that Michael’s busy obfuscating madly, thrashing about
trying to cover over The Question, so I’ll bear up as best I
can. Now, Michael has divined that I called the Meier case a
“hoax.” His powers of perception are REMARKABLE; he
finds things where they don’t exist! Wonderful!
But he’s up against the wall, so go easy on him.
James Randi"
http://www.iigwest.com/horn/03_28_04_Randi_3A.pdf
See he clearly still today thinks meier is a hoax, he simple said he never called a hoax, never said something like oh sorry MH I retracted my believe about meier being a hoax, now I believe in meier...... see the game?
That is how MH misquote people to later make it look at his favor.
Still don't believe? look at this site: http://www.iigwest.com/horn.shtml
Does that look like someone that doesn't believe that the case is a hoax?
If you are new to reading about it MH confuse the hell of you with lies, that is how he sells the dvds...... and about the so called "eyewitnesses" I suggest you go and read what they said, it's pretty laughtable. No to mention that most of them are figu members. LOL!
Another thing that I am tired of is MH always put that woman (?) as #1 witnesses just because when she was "10 years old" a woman came to her bed and touched her hair!!! or saw meier walking with a woman?
TEN YEARS OLD!!!!! OH YEAH IT WAS AN ALIEN WOMAN I SAW. LOL GEEZ!
NOTE: All those quotes MH always post from "the expert" are not the full quotes they wrote, he just take the parts that he likes, and made them illustrate something completely different of what they really wrote or said.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Cygnus X1 said:
That's good... I thought we'd lost you...
Cygnus X1 said:
You should know then that according to Billy, we're actually the decendants of humans from Lyra who came to earth to escape a war and regressed into what we are today. So how is it the high-and-mighty plejar-jarians don't feel like helping re-elevate a once space fairing race of fellow humans? They got a monopoly to maintain or something? And if higher conciousness is needed for true space flight, how were the war-like Lyrans able to get here in the first place?
To paraphrase a certain film- "My god... it's full of holes...!"
HWSNBN (He Who Shall Not Be Named) is the way we refer to the american representative of Billy Meier.
I think you should email the guys you mentioned and find out what they really said. Don't believe anything HWSNBN says as he misquotes and writes things out of context just to suit his case.
I emailed one of his named tree experts and didn't really expect a reply but after a few weeks I got this:
Thank you for doing this fact checking. Here is the direct quote that I provided to the person who made the initial inquiry of me (neither Mr. Horn nor Mr. Meier).
Initial Query:
"The aim is to get the best possible estimate of the height of the section of the tree that eclipses the UFO, as that then gives a minimum size to the height of the UFO."
My response:
"Overall, this tree is certainly younger than those in the background, but beyond that, it's hard to tell. It's also hard to tell much about species--it's most likely to be a fir, Douglas-fir, or spruce, but I can't say much beyond that. Douglas-fir is not native to Europe, but it's commonly planted there.
The portion of the tree above the potential UFO appears to me to be in the range of 6-10 feet. Although it's pretty fuzzy, there appear to be 5 or 6 whorls of branches with an average growth (and this is just an educated guess) of 1-2 feet between whorls."
As you can see, I did not verify that the photo is real, or that the object near its top (the potential UFO) is real-both of these judgments are beyond my expertise. I assumed that the tree is real although the photo is fuzzy enough that even this is difficult to verify with any confidence.
-- Ed Jensen
I think you should email the guys you mentioned and find out what they really said. Don't believe anything HWSNBN says as he misquotes and writes things out of context just to suit his case.
I emailed one of his named tree experts and didn't really expect a reply but after a few weeks I got this:
Thank you for doing this fact checking. Here is the direct quote that I provided to the person who made the initial inquiry of me (neither Mr. Horn nor Mr. Meier).
Initial Query:
"The aim is to get the best possible estimate of the height of the section of the tree that eclipses the UFO, as that then gives a minimum size to the height of the UFO."
My response:
"Overall, this tree is certainly younger than those in the background, but beyond that, it's hard to tell. It's also hard to tell much about species--it's most likely to be a fir, Douglas-fir, or spruce, but I can't say much beyond that. Douglas-fir is not native to Europe, but it's commonly planted there.
The portion of the tree above the potential UFO appears to me to be in the range of 6-10 feet. Although it's pretty fuzzy, there appear to be 5 or 6 whorls of branches with an average growth (and this is just an educated guess) of 1-2 feet between whorls."
As you can see, I did not verify that the photo is real, or that the object near its top (the potential UFO) is real-both of these judgments are beyond my expertise. I assumed that the tree is real although the photo is fuzzy enough that even this is difficult to verify with any confidence.
-- Ed Jensen
David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
Aspie,
Even though I normally stay away from engaging in threads discussing the Meier BS, I want to thank you for that post and the fact that you followed up with one of the forestry experts. It just goes to show the degree to which HornO will go to distort, misrepresent and lie regarding expert opinion - or anything else - of this bogus cult.
dB
Even though I normally stay away from engaging in threads discussing the Meier BS, I want to thank you for that post and the fact that you followed up with one of the forestry experts. It just goes to show the degree to which HornO will go to distort, misrepresent and lie regarding expert opinion - or anything else - of this bogus cult.
dB
Nice Aspie, I did the same with Michael Malin:
--------------------------------------------------------
On Dec 7, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Jeff Ritzmann wrote:
> I came across Michael Malin's name as being one of the individuals
> quoted as supporting the case's photographs as a real phenomenon:
> (See http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/MeierEvidence.pdf )
> I realize that most likely this is a selective quote put forth by
> Meier's supporters. Mr. Malin I believe is being misrepresented,
> and I'd just like to get his real feelings on the case and end the
> idea that supporters have put forth saying he supports the
> evidence, when I'm willing to bet he really does not.
Your inference is correct: Dr. Malin indicated to me that he feels
the quote referenced above was out of context. The thrust of his
comment was that if the images were a fake, they were well done
fakes, but he couldn't tell if they were fake or not from the
digitized versions of the images he saw. And his general
observation of this topic was as follows: "It really doesn't matter
whether they're real or not. If they are real, the occupants don't
want to have any substantive contact with us, and certainly they're
not offering me a lift to Mars 8^). So screw them! If they're not
real, who cares if some nut in Switzerland can make good fakes?"
-------------------------------------------------------
This email was from Malin's employee Michael Ravine, who went to Malin with my questions. As you can see, Malin wasnt given the pictures, he was shown digital versions...NOT the photos or negatives.
I'll lay money you'll get this same response from most all of the "experts".
I also sent the sound sample to Justin Spence, who is the chief sound engineer and course coodinator at SAE, a global institute for sound engineering.
I sent the sound to him and he played it. He asked me what I thought it was, and I told him, being a guitar player for 20+ years it sounded like feedback through an old tape delay. These have been used as far as back as Hendrix. I also remarked to him that in the very beginning of the recording, you could hear what amounts to a tap. This tap sounds like a tap on a reverb pan of an ampilifer. This tap sets off the feedback, as there must be an inital sound to begin it, and then the feedback ensues as the tape delay loads run after run of it. The sound becomes progressively louder, due to the tape delay layering. The tone changes due to movement of the sound input device, most likely a mic. I do this alot with guitar, and feedback changes tone when you move the angle of the guitar's pickups in relation to the amp.
His (Spence's) reply was:
"I completely agree with you"
He said, and further stated there was reverb used as well, a fairly standard amp component. Justin commented he thought there could possibly be another effect in there, but wasn't sure as the sound was of such poor quality. He said the "knock" was very obviously a tap on reverb springs to set off the feedback loop. He commented that he could create such a sound in 10 minutes with his equipment, but that the original wouldn't require anything sophisticated. It could be generated by the old equipment with slightly more difficulty due to many variables like distance of the input device to speaker, and setting of echo on the delay effect, amp, etc.
In essence, all needed items to make the sound were completely available to Meier to do this, and quite easily. It seems the sound engineers who've "analyzed" the sounds must have been prior believers in UFO contact cases or the Meier case, because the answer was very obvious to the sound engineer I spoke with.
--------------------------------------------------------
On Dec 7, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Jeff Ritzmann wrote:
> I came across Michael Malin's name as being one of the individuals
> quoted as supporting the case's photographs as a real phenomenon:
> (See http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/MeierEvidence.pdf )
> I realize that most likely this is a selective quote put forth by
> Meier's supporters. Mr. Malin I believe is being misrepresented,
> and I'd just like to get his real feelings on the case and end the
> idea that supporters have put forth saying he supports the
> evidence, when I'm willing to bet he really does not.
Your inference is correct: Dr. Malin indicated to me that he feels
the quote referenced above was out of context. The thrust of his
comment was that if the images were a fake, they were well done
fakes, but he couldn't tell if they were fake or not from the
digitized versions of the images he saw. And his general
observation of this topic was as follows: "It really doesn't matter
whether they're real or not. If they are real, the occupants don't
want to have any substantive contact with us, and certainly they're
not offering me a lift to Mars 8^). So screw them! If they're not
real, who cares if some nut in Switzerland can make good fakes?"
-------------------------------------------------------
This email was from Malin's employee Michael Ravine, who went to Malin with my questions. As you can see, Malin wasnt given the pictures, he was shown digital versions...NOT the photos or negatives.
I'll lay money you'll get this same response from most all of the "experts".
I also sent the sound sample to Justin Spence, who is the chief sound engineer and course coodinator at SAE, a global institute for sound engineering.
I sent the sound to him and he played it. He asked me what I thought it was, and I told him, being a guitar player for 20+ years it sounded like feedback through an old tape delay. These have been used as far as back as Hendrix. I also remarked to him that in the very beginning of the recording, you could hear what amounts to a tap. This tap sounds like a tap on a reverb pan of an ampilifer. This tap sets off the feedback, as there must be an inital sound to begin it, and then the feedback ensues as the tape delay loads run after run of it. The sound becomes progressively louder, due to the tape delay layering. The tone changes due to movement of the sound input device, most likely a mic. I do this alot with guitar, and feedback changes tone when you move the angle of the guitar's pickups in relation to the amp.
His (Spence's) reply was:
"I completely agree with you"
He said, and further stated there was reverb used as well, a fairly standard amp component. Justin commented he thought there could possibly be another effect in there, but wasn't sure as the sound was of such poor quality. He said the "knock" was very obviously a tap on reverb springs to set off the feedback loop. He commented that he could create such a sound in 10 minutes with his equipment, but that the original wouldn't require anything sophisticated. It could be generated by the old equipment with slightly more difficulty due to many variables like distance of the input device to speaker, and setting of echo on the delay effect, amp, etc.
In essence, all needed items to make the sound were completely available to Meier to do this, and quite easily. It seems the sound engineers who've "analyzed" the sounds must have been prior believers in UFO contact cases or the Meier case, because the answer was very obvious to the sound engineer I spoke with.
Cygnus X1
Paranormal Novice
Wow I was just thinking it was funny that in the films I've seen on Utube the UFO's are always stationary (indicating that they are hanging) then I saw this clip where Meier is actually in the shot himself - kinda throws the small model close to camera thing into question.
Then at the end of the clip we see a UFO move from left to right quite rapidly and theres no pendulum effect that we would see if it was on a string. Any explanations for this?
Then at the end of the clip we see a UFO move from left to right quite rapidly and theres no pendulum effect that we would see if it was on a string. Any explanations for this?
Cygnus X1
Paranormal Novice
You guys ever think that this could be some kind of conspiracy involving black military ops. The goal to draw in credible UFO researchers then release ridiculous garbage - discrediting the case and destroying real UFO research? Everyone seems to agree that Meier has really hurt ufology. I wouldn't be surprised if the government has antigravitic craft (I've seen some weird videos over area 51) and used them to dupe Meier and everyone else.
Wow a dot in the sky that is really blurred.
Try this one http://www.steelmarkonline.com/media/06-12-75_Tree_Circling_Ship_Near_Hinwil_(Low-Res).mpg
Definitely on a string, and it looks like it's Meier's favourite bonsai tree it's swinging around.
Try this one http://www.steelmarkonline.com/media/06-12-75_Tree_Circling_Ship_Near_Hinwil_(Low-Res).mpg
Definitely on a string, and it looks like it's Meier's favourite bonsai tree it's swinging around.
T
TerraX
Guest
Meier himself discredited his own case quite nicely. No original negatives or films. TV show dancers being passed on as genuine ETs but later the blame is put on MiB falsifying his material, after he got caught of course. Pics from Venus and stars could be found in any astronomical literature. Supposed picture from the future depicting the destruction of San Francisco was an exact match with a GEO magazine illustration. Meier's mothership in space picture shows a remarkable similarity to a NASA illustration of a Voyager probe. The list goes on.Cygnus X1 said:
Do I think it's a conspiracy involving black military ops? Hardly. Black Meier op is more likely.
Cygnus X1
Paranormal Novice
Aspie said:
Yeah that one looks very iffy - again theres stuff thats amazing looking and stuff thats laughable (at first glance?) and destroys the crediblilty of all UFO research. It could also be a characteristic of how these craft fly.
The one film I was wondering about the craft looks fairly far away though hard to tell on a Utoob video taken from a video taken from a film. It moves really quickly then stops and doesnt swing around like on a string - its really impressive as is the one with him in the frame, that object looks quite distant.
Pretty weird I just saw a video with a guy George Green who says while in the military he saw a craft exactly like one in Meiers photographs. Is the shadow government behind all this? Causing us to yell and scream at each other instead of working together to find the truth?
Cygnus X1
Paranormal Novice
Yeah Terra theres alot of stuff that sheds horrible light on the case but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around how Meier could fool so many experts and investigators and townspeople and film developers (who've never come forward saying it was hoaxed). It would take sooo much work and he was raising 3 kids and running a farm too.
Just listen to him or his followers talk about all this stuff and you can see they aren't exactly the sharpest bunch of tools in the shed. I have messed around with sound mixing and those beamship sounds are just flat out amazing - I can't see how a bunch of Swiss hicks could make that back then.
I know you guys are questioning the statements of the experts but it wasnt HWCBN who's word we need to take - it was Gary Kinder the writer of "Light Years" who printed those quotes and he seems fairly reputable.
Who has really been in control of this whole debacle? The "Plejarans" ie MIB disinformation specialists? That is what they have done with UFOs since the beginning - publish half truths and lies and create rabbit holes so that anyone trying to get to the truth gets frustrated and gives up.
I've seen a UFO and they are real, this much I know.
Just listen to him or his followers talk about all this stuff and you can see they aren't exactly the sharpest bunch of tools in the shed. I have messed around with sound mixing and those beamship sounds are just flat out amazing - I can't see how a bunch of Swiss hicks could make that back then.
I know you guys are questioning the statements of the experts but it wasnt HWCBN who's word we need to take - it was Gary Kinder the writer of "Light Years" who printed those quotes and he seems fairly reputable.
Who has really been in control of this whole debacle? The "Plejarans" ie MIB disinformation specialists? That is what they have done with UFOs since the beginning - publish half truths and lies and create rabbit holes so that anyone trying to get to the truth gets frustrated and gives up.
I've seen a UFO and they are real, this much I know.
H
hopeful skeptic
Guest
Well, absence of evidence isn't evidence. Until one of these illustrious personages admits to contact, it's reasonable to assume they haven't been contacted, since no other contactee has ever provided hard evidence that he has been contacted.
When I say "Podunk," I mean the quality of the contactees themselves, that's all. I'm not sure it's inaccurate at all.
Cygnus X1, meier tales are somehow interesting at first but when you keep digging you will find that it's all *BS*. In everything there are a lot of holes and when they try to cover those holes they create "BLACK HOLES" (worst, bigger, etc). MH still says that meier has metal samples (from other worlds) so if this is true why doesn't he get them tested? Doesn't that make you wonder? it's simple, he can't!!!! as even he knows it's all *BS*, he can get a million dollars and prove if the tale is true, all the crap he talks about would make you believe he would do it, but till this day he has not and will never.
http://www.iigwest.com/horn.shtml The answer is simple (lets continue selling dvds about sci-fi tales, people will buy into anything).
"Yeah Terra theres alot of stuff that sheds horrible light on the case but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around how Meier could fool so many experts and investigators and townspeople and film developers"
Then again where is the proof those experts examined "ORIGINAL MEIER'S PHOTOS" guess what, they never did they look at generations of photos of photos.... For all we know meier never submitted an original photo for examination. Just look at something so simple, he made over 1,200 photos of objects in the air yet there is not a single original or negative to examine!!!
even at the time he took them? come on geez,
Finally, here is an example of how it's done, it's called "false perspective" which all meier photos have, you don't need to be an expert to notice it.
http://www.iigwest.com/meier.html
And don't fall for MH, next he will say let's examine those as meier's were examined, which seems fair, now he fails to mention that in order to examine those as meiers were examined, few things need to be considered:
1- let's make generations of scans of this photos of photos (meiers photos examinaitons was not done to originals never)
2- let's use equipments from the time meiers suppostly photos examination occurred to examine the "SCAN OF GENERATIONS OF THIS PHOTOS" (I bet the results would be the same as meier's = object in the air in a false perspective that can fool few people).
3. Goes on......... but I guess you get the idea already.
http://www.iigwest.com/horn.shtml The answer is simple (lets continue selling dvds about sci-fi tales, people will buy into anything).
"Yeah Terra theres alot of stuff that sheds horrible light on the case but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around how Meier could fool so many experts and investigators and townspeople and film developers"
Then again where is the proof those experts examined "ORIGINAL MEIER'S PHOTOS" guess what, they never did they look at generations of photos of photos.... For all we know meier never submitted an original photo for examination. Just look at something so simple, he made over 1,200 photos of objects in the air yet there is not a single original or negative to examine!!!
even at the time he took them? come on geez,
Finally, here is an example of how it's done, it's called "false perspective" which all meier photos have, you don't need to be an expert to notice it.
http://www.iigwest.com/meier.html
And don't fall for MH, next he will say let's examine those as meier's were examined, which seems fair, now he fails to mention that in order to examine those as meiers were examined, few things need to be considered:
1- let's make generations of scans of this photos of photos (meiers photos examinaitons was not done to originals never)
2- let's use equipments from the time meiers suppostly photos examination occurred to examine the "SCAN OF GENERATIONS OF THIS PHOTOS" (I bet the results would be the same as meier's = object in the air in a false perspective that can fool few people).
3. Goes on......... but I guess you get the idea already.