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Blackwater Founder Implicated in Murder

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Apologies, and I guess I should have, more correctly, said our, as Canada is lock-step, and neigh indistinguishable from US govt as is (give or take a self-governing paramilitary police force, and a governor-general:D).

"Nigh". "Neigh" is what horses say. And when your next door neighbour is a heavily armed, excessively wealthy, 800lbs gorilla with ADHD you tend to go along with whatever they want. Not that I'm implying the relationship hasn't been generally benefitial, mind you I'm just saying...
 
Makes no difference to the validity of his statement.



Gee... could it have been the obscenely ridiculous tax breaks Dubya introduced I wonder? Ordinary people despised the Bush administration for good reason.



Actually they do, when they want to retire and enjoy living. In my experience people go to America for the money and that is all. You're not this naiive Bob, please don't pretend to be.

I am TOO that naive! Don't tell me how naive I .... wait. :D

But, I am glad you mentioned money. A very good reason for people to come here (at least until this recession). Unless you are born into wealth or fall into it, how much of a life do you really have without adequate income in today's world? And, people have found that the U.S. is one great place to give it a go to try to make a good bit of money, better than most countries, and keep most of it. So, good point, and not a demerit on America, but a shiny gold star!

I must say though, it is sad that money is a necessity for a happy existence in today's world. After all, when we speak of the impoverished nations, it all comes down to the economy and people not being able to make a decent living. Thus, they want to come to the U.S. or other countries where opportunities are. How seriously sad it is that all countries cannot develop an economy to suit all of their citizens.
 
But, I am glad you mentioned money. A very good reason for people to come here (at least until this recession). Unless you are born into wealth or fall into it, how much of a life do you really have without adequate income in today's world?

Depends how you define "a life" though, doesn't it? If "having a life" means "owning lotsa stuff" then not much, I guess.

And, people have found that the U.S. is one great place to give it a go to try to make a good bit of money, better than most countries, and keep most of it. So, good point, and not a demerit on America, but a shiny gold star!

Except that that's the kind of "money is everything/I got mine, Jack!" thinking that lead to the housing crisis and tangentally to the economic collapse. If you ask me that gold star has some tarnish on it. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against making money... unless of course your sole application of that money is to make more money. At that point you've lost the plot, IMHO.

I must say though, it is sad that money is a necessity for a happy existence in today's world. After all, when we speak of the impoverished nations, it all comes down to the economy and people not being able to make a decent living. Thus, they want to come to the U.S. or other countries where opportunities are. How seriously sad it is that all countries cannot develop an economy to suit all of their citizens.

You understand we need them to stay down right, to stay impoversihed so we in the west aren't? Economics is like an elevator: in order for someone to go up, someone else has to go down. It most certainly is not some vast ocean where a "rising tide lifts all boats", despite republican claims to the contrary. And even if it were, the rising tide would be less than helpful to those boats that are anchored...
 
You understand we need them to stay down right, to stay impoversihed so we in the west aren't? Economics is like an elevator: in order for someone to go up, someone else has to go down. It most certainly is not some vast ocean where a "rising tide lifts all boats", despite republican claims to the contrary. And even if it were, the rising tide would be less than helpful to those boats that are anchored...


That is simply not true. There is plenty of resources and bounty to go around the world. Countries simply are not using their resources and land to the fullest extent. Whenever worldwide production is at 100%, then your argument might have some merit. But we are far, far from that.
 
That is simply not true. There is plenty of resources and bounty to go around the world. Countries simply are not using their resources and land to the fullest extent. Whenever worldwide production is at 100%, then your argument might have some merit. But we are far, far from that.

If believing that helps you sleep comfortably Bob, who am I to argue?
 
You understand we need them to stay down right, to stay impoversihed so we in the west aren't? Economics is like an elevator: in order for someone to go up, someone else has to go down. It most certainly is not some vast ocean where a "rising tide lifts all boats", despite republican claims to the contrary. And even if it were, the rising tide would be less than helpful to those boats that are anchored...


Cap what exactly is your point in all this again?

The average quality of life on Earth is better now than in the past. The world life expectancy now is nearly 70. In the early 20th century it was 30-40. China and India both have rapidly growing standards of living. The percentage of the world's population living in poverty is half that of the early 80s. Sounds like a rising tide to me.

And if you feel that you owning a lot of stuff and enjoying the fruits of Canadian/American life is exploiting the rest of the world then you are free as an individual to give most of your worldly possessions away, move to Africa, and tithe any remaining income to third world charities.

That way you will be directly helping people and you wont have to feel so bad about having luxuries of the West and you will know in your heart that you have done your best to thwart Evil America ;)
 
Apologies, and I guess I should have, more correctly, said our, as Canada is lock-step, and neigh indistinguishable from US govt as is (give or take a self-governing paramilitary police force, and a governor-general:D).

As a patriotic Canadian, I'm gonna have to take issue with that statement for many reasons.

1. We didn't enter a pointless war.

2. We haven't burned nearly as many bridges.

3. We still have a very strong and stable banking system due to much smarter economic choices made by our govt. and banks.

4. Our military budget pales in comparison (even when comparing GNP with % spent on military)

5. Katrina. I really don't need to go into detail on that. Instead, just Google Mismanagement.

And in all honesty, if I felt I need to supply more reasons that our Government doesn't act in lock-step with the U.S govt. I would, but I think you kinda get the point.
 
Cap what exactly is your point in all this again?

Point? You should know me better than that by now, DDA! IF I had one though I suppose it would be to look at things as they are, minus the rose coloured glasses.

The average quality of life on Earth is better now than in the past. The world life expectancy now is nearly 70. In the early 20th century it was 30-40. China and India both have rapidly growing standards of living. The percentage of the world's population living in poverty is half that of the early 80s. Sounds like a rising tide to me.

That's a matter of perspective. Increased life expectancy puts a further drain on resources, thus cancelling many benefits that longevity might contribute. Besides what does increased life expectancy (which is largely a consequence of medical science) have to do with economic distribution?

And not everyone considers owning a cel phone to be "an increased standard of living". Besides do you really think China and India can keep going like that before the economic scales tip?

And if you feel that you owning a lot of stuff and enjoying the fruits of Canadian/American life is exploiting the rest of the world then you are free as an individual to give most of your worldly possessions away, move to Africa, and tithe any remaining income to third world charities.

Ah yes, the "If you don't like it, lump it!" response, cousin to the "I got mine, Jack" principle. Sure you don't want to throw in "I'm rubber and you're glue" while you're at it?

Maybe you missed the part where I said I had nothing against making money but I should also point out that those "fruits" you mention are largely imported. Think you'll still be enjoying them so readily if the Chinese suddenly decide they want more than $10 a week to make 'em?
 
That's a matter of perspective. Increased life expectancy puts a further drain on resources, thus cancelling many benefits that longevity might contribute. Besides what does increased life expectancy (which is largely a consequence of medical science) have to do with economic distribution?

And not everyone considers owning a cel phone to be "an increased standard of living". Besides do you really think China and India can keep going like that before the economic scales tip?

Increase in lifespan is not as much of a problem as many think. As lifespans increase, women tend to have children later in life. We all know populations in the west are dropping off because women are having less children in general, and as the third world becomes more advanced their populations will do so as well. If you look at demographic projections by 2050 and beyond, the world population is on target to stall out. IMO, world overpopulation will not be a problem in the 22nd century.

Access to medical science is a DIRECT relationship to economic distribution!! People and nations with money and resources have access to better medical care! If good medical care and modern technologies such as cars and phones and TVs are NOT part of an increased standard of living, then what DO you consider it to be?

I'm guessing that if you offer a little street kid in India all those things, he'd consider that a drastic increase in his living conditions.


Ah yes, the "If you don't like it, lump it!" response, cousin to the "I got mine, Jack" principle. Sure you don't want to throw in "I'm rubber and you're glue" while you're at it?

Maybe you missed the part where I said I had nothing against making money but I should also point out that those "fruits" you mention are largely imported. Think you'll still be enjoying them so readily if the Chinese suddenly decide they want more than $10 a week to make 'em?

No I'm not saying "love it or leave it" My point is to highlight what I consider to be hypocrisy coming from a lot of people who rail endlessly about the America and the Western lifestyle in general, yet continue to live there and enjoy all that it provides. Like I said in my first response, it NOT an either us or them situation since the world standards of living have raised throughout the 20th century. China in particular is dramatic proof of that.

The world is not a perfect place, and has always had, and always will have, massive inequity and misfortune built into it. That doe suck, but I'm not about to spend my life pronouncing affectations of guilt for being lucky enough to be born in the West.

The canned "Well I'd rather be part of the solution" response doesn't hold much weight with me because its easy to use that as an excuse for enjoying the cushy perks and security that the Western lifestyle provides while at the same time doing every little to actually change the system.

The irony here is that unlike the majority of activists and American protestors and such, Christians (who everyone seems to love to hate) are one of the few groups that ACTUALLY does something to make the world a better place. Most of the Christians I know tithe 10 percent of their income to the church which takes that money and runs soup kitchens etc. My wife went to Mexico and built houses for the poor while she was in High School (twice). That's more than the majority of dopey teenager protesters will ever do to rectify all the injustice of the West.

So if America is truly so exploitative of the world, then does buying "green detergent" at Trader Joes and a Prius and then patting yourself on the back really make up for all that? Giving away one's possessions and moving to India would TRULY be putting one's money where their mouth is.. worked for Mother Theresa. But alas I didn't see people exactly flocking to do that when Bush got reelected. So perhaps life and opportunities here in America and the West aren't THAT bad after all.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not promoting or justifying things like the Iraq War or government corruption. I'm just saying that I try to see it in the bigger context and appreciate the good fortunes and opportunities that I have living here. I am critical of what America does to some degree as we all should be, but even with all the problems I still would prefer to live here over any other country on Earth, and people who seem to attack it endlessly without ever acknowledging its virtues are hypocrites in my eyes.
 
...appreciate the good fortunes and opportunities that I have living here. I am critical of what America does to some degree as we all should be, but even with all the problems I still would prefer to live here over any other country on Earth.....

yeah, I feel the same about Canada.:)
 
If good medical care and modern technologies such as cars and phones and TVs are NOT part of an increased standard of living, then what DO you consider it to be?

I think you may have read too much into that one. I just really hate cel phones and will never own one. EVER.

That does suck, but I'm not about to spend my life pronouncing affectations of guilt for being lucky enough to be born in the West.

See, it's not about sowing "guilt" for me, never has been. Maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly. It's more about recognizing this:

The world is not a perfect place, and has always had, and always will have, massive inequity and misfortune built into it.

And believe me, I'm right there with you when it comes to these neo-hippies and their "I'm doing my part" schtick because it's all just marketing bullshit and at the end of the day the "part" they are "doing" is the absolute bare fucking minimum. Being proud of that is like being proud of breathing in and out.

But what really bugs me is what's on the other end of that stick. The whole culture of entitlement thing. The notion that because you happened to be born within the geographic boundaries of a particular nation you're somehow better and more deserving than other people.

Christians (who everyone seems to love to hate)

Let's just take a moment to specify that, shall we? People hate evangelicals. And they hate them for three reasons 1) they won't shut up about the fucking end times and the rapture and how everything in the Bible is literal and true. That shit's fucking annoying. 2) They can't keep their noses out of other people's business, constantly wailing about their injustice du jour (usually either gay marriage or abortion) and 3) They wield a grossly disproportionate amount of political clout given their otherwise minimal percentage within the population of christianity as a whole, let alone America in it's entirety. Only the HRCC has anything even close to them and they had a seriously long head start.

I am critical of what America does to some degree as we all should be, but even with all the problems I still would prefer to live here over any other country on Earth, and people who seem to attack it endlessly without ever acknowledging its virtues are hypocrites in my eyes.

At the end of the day that's really all I'm looking for. No rosey glasses. I suppose you could counter argue I should take off my shades because life's not so bad but that's easier said than done, I'm generally a negative kinda guy.
 
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