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Canine Telepathy Study

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As has been shown over and over through the years. Skeptics will simply keep moving the fence back. I once heard a skeptic say "There is no way that any esp is ever, ever possible." Then when shown it was "There is no way it is statistically significent." However, since that is one of the things (statistics) that I had to take for my Degree I found that was a lie and it is indeed "significant." Then near death studies came about and it was "Well, maybe it's a case of "Super ESP. " Say what? :-) Point being that people be they religioius or true believer or skeptic will pick and choose the data they deem to prop up their worldview while deriding and ignoring anything that challenges it. I've said before that I find "hope" to be the most universal need in mankind and I gladly admit that I find "hope" in the thought and even the fact that we are not just chemical machines or meatbots. But, absolute proof will for now and perhaps always elude both sides of the debate.

Peace.
Steve.
 
The one thing that I am glad to see is there are actual scientist with no political or idealogical axe to grind doing some studies now. People like (pardon me if I get some spelling of names wrong) Van Lowell of Europe and Grosso of the U.S. and Josephson of Europe and Sir Roger Penrose (Stephen Hawking peer and collegue) of Britain. These and other actual scientist while not "true beleivers" have been doing yeomen work in physics and cosmology and the breaking down of the old 18th centurary model of pyschics. I think sometime people forget that many of the most vocal skeptics such as Randi and Shermer are not praticing scientist at all. There are some who certainly are and there are legitimate scientist that think any aspect of the paranormal is hoooey. But, there are also those who see something more to study. I admit there are times when a poster or two will come on here and start throwing the word science around and chemical and evoloutionary process and I don't know if I should speak up and say "well I disagree." But, from time to time I guess you just gotta stick your neck out and say "I do believe we are more than meatbots." And in all candor I'm prejudice toward a more spritual/holistic worldview than a materilistic one. I'm just being honest which I think is something we all shoud be when we have agendas and worldviews.8)

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

Sometime even the most reputable scientist fudges stuff. Stephen J Gould everyone. :-) So, make no mistake. Science while wonderful is not free of bias. All God's/evolutions children do it.

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/meta/gould-morton-lewis-2011.html
 
Don't you ever wonder why if ESP and so forth is a reality and always has been, why it hasn't been tamed and exploited like everything else that works? That is my main heartburn with it. If it were real and useful and understood as long as it reportedly has been, then where are the commercial applications that naturally flow from useful discoveries? That's a fair and straight forward question isn't it?
 
It is a fair and straightforward question. The answer (for me) is I don't know. :-) I don't think it's "tamed" and I don't think it can be performed on cue. I don't think it has been "understood" and I think it has been in the provence of religion (which has it's own agenda) for so long and then after the age of supersticion came the age of reductionism. Maybe somebody like the folks I listed above will come up with an answer. I just know that to say "well why hasn't this happened?" is a little simplistic. We are in the most infantile of stages when it comes to the human brain much less consniusnees and cosmology. Not to mention my spelling. :-)
 
I think it has to do with it being unreliable, fickle, and under-researched. The suggestion of it brings out the tinfoil hats, and that scares off most people. Research is difficult since it's not any 'super-sense,' but only perhaps a remnant from our ancestors. I doubt anyone who claims to read minds; I can consider someone having a sharp sense of intuition. Useful? Perhaps. Interesting? Certainly. Marketable...? Unlikely. Unless a scam.
 
tyder001 said:
I just know that to say "well why hasn't this happened?" is a little simplistic. We are in the most infantile of stages when it comes to the human brain much less consniusnees and cosmology.
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I'm just a simple guy tyder. I look at the claims of ESP proponents and see vaporware. It isn't like these claims just appeared in recent history but they have nothing to show for it. People have been beating that horse for a long, long, time and it were going to get up and walk I think it already would have. Research into consciousness and how our minds work has discovered things like mirror neurons that seem to respond to other people's states so I do see the possibility of some breakthrough in the future that might lead to something useful but it seems remote.

The Economic Argument
 
I'm a simple man myself and certainly no hard scientist. But, as I said before there has been some provocative research. Also, I've had my own "aha" moments. At the end of the day we all wake up in our own skin and all we really have is our own sense of self. That being said the things we can measure and the things we can do for each other be it spritual such as just being there or offering a shoulder or even a prayer or love. Be it scientific (which to me is an extension of the devine mind or ground of being) Be it a meal or a pat on the back or visiting the sick is all we really can do. We can't prove (or I can't) the human soul or the reality of God or even the actual machination and reality/reason of how evolution works. We will always have charlatans and false phrophets and liers and exploiters. You see religion and see scams and a bad history with it. I see it and see many of the same things. But, I also see the minister that came out in the cold when my Grandmother was passing and held her hand. I also see the mother who lost her child and yet holds to a peace that passes understanding that God doesn't balance the books every Tuesday but there is a balance. You see hokum and I do to at times. But, I also see the time that I heard (literally) a voice in my head tell me a freind was going to kill himself. Walked in and walked right past the damn shotgun in the hall. So, many times I can't measure these things or prove them to a skeptic or an atheist. So, I mainly keep em to myself. But, it's just enough to "know" that although there is a lot of bunk and a lot of opressive charlatans that meaning and hope and purpose is there. No, I don't have a clear cut theology. I can't say "this is how it works." But, then again I'm still on my journey. I admire (contrary to some things I might say) the human sciences and the knowledge we have. But, I also admire the human search for individual meaning. At the end of the day that's all "each" of us really has to go on. I love my child more than anything in this world. I have to believe that love is real and not a simple chemical robotic reaction. Just poking the brain with a stick and cause it to salivate or twitch will never disprove the spirit to me. Nor prove it to anybody else that doesn't see it that way I'm sure.

Peace.
Steve.
 
I once had a remarkable mongrel called Boris, (we think he was a red australian cattle dog crossed labrador) he used to wander about my local shopping centre, and was street wise enough to wait with people at the lights and cross the road when they did.
I often admired him from afar.
One day i saw him sitting outside the local pet shop, and i mentioned to the owner what a magnificent animal "they" had.
Oh he's not ours they replied, he just comes and sits here during the day, and we sling him a free feed.
Turned out nobody owned him, he was a street dog, living the carefree life.
the local dog catcher knew him, and couldnt home him, he would abscond every chance he got, no fence could hold him.
So i took him home, and treated him like the magnifent creature he was, he never left and became my devoted best friend.
He exhibited what looked like telepathy.
I only had to "think" what a beautiful dog you are, i'm so lucky to be walking the path with you, and he would look at me and wag his tail. Even when he was looking away from me, with no direct line of sight to his eyes.
He could be lying on the rug with his head turned away and eyes closed, and if i thought about him with admiration, he knew and would wag his tail and turn and look at me.
I dont know how he did it, but it was very real
 
trainedobserver said:
I'm just a simple guy tyder. I look at the claims of ESP proponents and see vaporware. It isn't like these claims just appeared in recent history but they have nothing to show for it. People have been beating that horse for a long, long, time and it were going to get up and walk I think it already would have. Research into consciousness and how our minds work has discovered things like mirror neurons that seem to respond to other people's states so I do see the possibility of some breakthrough in the future that might lead to something useful but it seems remote.

The Economic Argument
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You beat me to it!
That comic is on the wall of my cubicle.
 
J.T. said:
Now that it's somebody besides Rupert Sheldrake, perhaps debunkers will take notice:

Dogs Likely Born with 'Canine Telepathy' : Discovery News

Of course, this was already discussed by William J. Long about a century ago in "How Animals Talk":

Free Google eBook
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I would really prefer to to read the actual study. Dogs use body language to communicate with each other, and are quite adept at learning the body language of human beings. So whether the dog is reading body language or responding to a mental stimulus would depend upon how the study is conducted, and what the body language of the "attentive" party is.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that non-verbal, and maybe even telepathic communication is possible between a dog and a person, but I don't think that this study does anything to really show that.
 
trainedobserver said:
Don't you ever wonder why if ESP and so forth is a reality and always has been, why it hasn't been tamed and exploited like everything else that works? That is my main heartburn with it. If it were real and useful and understood as long as it reportedly has been, then where are the commercial applications that naturally flow from useful discoveries? That's a fair and straight forward question isn't it?
Click to expand...
The US Army used Remote Viewing for around 20 years. It's not ESP but they were at least exploiting man's natural gift. They would not have wasted their time with it for that long if it did not produce results. Even after the eventual disbanding of the unit former viewers like Joseph McMoneagle, Lynn Buchannan, David Morehouse and Dr Paul Smith have companies and training programs dedicated to the teaching and practical application of Remote Viewing.
 
The Pair of Cats said:
The US Army used Remote Viewing for around 20 years. It's not ESP but they were at least exploiting man's natural gift. They would not have wasted their time with it for that long if it did not produce results. Even after the eventual disbanding of the unit former viewers like Joseph McMoneagle, Lynn Buchannan, David Morehouse and Dr Paul Smith have companies and training programs dedicated to the teaching and practical application of Remote Viewing.
Click to expand...

Are there any real FOIA government documents that confirm that? Why did they dissolve the group if they were being productive?
 
Reason I keep coming across is that it was unreliable in its accuracy. Hard to decode signal from noise and not detailed/accurate enough to warrant all the money and time. Doesn't mean there wasn't something to it, just means they couldn't tame it to fit their needs.

Could there be proof to the theory that we're ALL psychic? | Mail Online

Professor Jessica Utts, a statistician from the University of California, discovered that remote viewers were correct 34 per cent of the time, a figure way beyond what chance guessing would allow.
She says: "Using the standards applied to any other area of science, you have to conclude that certain psychic phenomena, such as remote viewing, have been well established.
"The results are not due to chance or flaws in the experiments."
Of course, this doesn't wash with sceptical scientists.
Professor Richard Wiseman, a psychologist at the University of Hertfordshire, refuses to believe in remote viewing.
He says: "I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven, but begs the question: do we need higher standards of evidence when we study the paranormal? I think we do.
 
The economic argument says that if there was something to it that can be exploited it will be. If you look at ESP like phenomena where is all the money being made with it? Training courses supposedly instructing others how to do it. Call-a-Psychic scams and dubious so-called reality shows. Nothing practical or even remotely useful has come from it that I am aware of. What gets exploited is the belief in the phenomena not the alleged phenomena itself. I think this is the tell with this business myself.

One thing I really like about the economic argument is that it has nothing to do with one's beliefs or stances on metaphysical subjects or the paranormal in general in fact they don't even enter into the thought process. It requires no consideration of science or some as yet undeveloped alternative to understand it. If X is real then where is the money being generated concerning X? Is the money actually being generated through the exploitation of the belief in X rather than X's practical application itself? If so then X has no practical application other than entertainment or a tool for confidence men.
 
The problem with the economic argument is that it supposed there is something solid and extraordinary at work here, not something natural and unreliable. You can exploit a river flowing downstream, but much harder to catch a freak thunderstorm.
 
J.T. said:
The problem with the economic argument is that it supposed there is something solid and extraordinary at work here, not something natural and unreliable. You can exploit a river flowing downstream, but much harder to catch a freak thunderstorm.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is true. Thunderstorms are studied all the time with the purpose of the practical application of that knowledge to help predict them.

If a phenomena is real and has any practical application it will be exploited by someone to make money. The fact that the only money being made from alleged paranormal phenomena is from exploitation of the belief in those things is a very good indicator of their true nature in my opinion. This goes for ESP phenomena in particular because of all the potential practical uses of such a thing.

Do you know of any practical application of allegedly established real paranormal phenomena that has proven itself by being economically viable? I can't think of any.
 
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