Canine Telepathy Study

[J.T.]

I don't think that is true. Thunderstorms are studied all the time with the purpose of the practical application of that knowledge to help predict them.
....
Do you know of any practical application of paranormal phenomena that has allegedly been established as real? I can't think of any.

I don't. But your sentence "Thunderstorms are studied all the time with the purpose of the practical application of that knowledge to help predict them" could be applied to ESP:

"ESP [should be] studied all the time with the purpose of the practical application of that knowledge to help [understand and apply] them."

That sentence needs a bit of clearing up, but you get my idea. Thunderstorms are studied much more than ESP, but we still have trouble predicting them (where they strike, at what velocity, does it come with hail and tornadoes). If the same amount of study was put into ESP, we might have a clearer idea of the possible practical application of it. I don't think there are necessarily going to be any since I don't believe it to be a super-sense. It might be, but I doubt that.

I'm skeptical myself, I just think it should be properly studied without fear of ridicule, harassment and unemployment. Not for the purpose of making money off it, but for the same purpose string theory is studied. For the understanding of ourselves and our environment.

 

[trainedobserver]

I don't. But your sentence "Thunderstorms are studied all the time with the purpose of the practical application of that knowledge to help predict them" could be applied to ESP:

It isn't the same thing at all. The practical application of the study of thunderstorms has proven to be economically viable due to savings in property loss and lives that result. How has the study of ESP ever shown to be economically viable except in the exploitation of the belief in it through entertainment and as a tool to separate people from their money?

Does skepticism even need to be in play? What is the reality of the situation? Where is the money made concerning the paranormal? It's all talk and no walk isn't it?

 

[tyder001]

Actually if you read something besides the Skeptical Inquier or Fate Magazine you will find that "some" not all police detectives will tell you a Psychic absolutely helped an investigation. You will also see where some were pure bunk. But, the fact is the Army the police and others have indeed used esp and other PSI to their advantage. Now, we say "well the military stopped" but the military doesn't tell you everything and also you don't know how much good info they got out of it. They certainly used it for a long time. I would say Ingo Swann would be a great guest. We could even ask him some of the questions being asked here. How about it Gene and Chris? Joe Moneagle or Ingo Swann? Is it doable?

 

[J.T.]

You got me there, though you only got a flaw in my reshaping of my original analogy. You address a detail, ignore the argument. I repeat:

I don't think there is money to be made from these subjects.

The effects are unreliable.

It's ignorant not to study a subject that yields significant statistical results.

You can exploit a river flowing downstream, but it's much harder to catch a freak thunderstorm.

 

[trainedobserver]

If the effects are unreliable then it is understandable that little or no practical use can be made of it in so much someone would be willing to invest time and money into investigating it. Even research for research sake takes time, money, and personnel to do. Someone has to see a reason to fund it. Don't reasons largely turn out to be economic?

I'm not saying what research should or should not be done. All I'm trying to point out is an observable effect, behavior, what have you. If it works, people use it to make real money and it sees wide use. If I look at claims of the paranormal and supernatural I don't see that happening. Beyond that I'm not trying argue anything at this point.

 

[J.T.]

I don't think so. What monetary reason is there to study the age of the universe? Or the mating habits of ants? Or looking into what consciousness is? Or multiple dimensions and string theory? It's to understand ourselves and our environment. I'm sure there is no shortage of studies with no immediate or obvious monetary gain.

 

[trainedobserver]

I don't think so. What monetary reason is there to study the age of the universe? Or the mating habits of ants? Or looking into what consciousness is? Or multiple dimensions and string theory? It's to understand ourselves and our environment. I'm sure there is no shortage of studies with no immediate or obvious monetary gain.

Well sure.


The point I'm trying to make is that if remote viewing (for example) were an established reality, then it would be used in all manner of industries and would have a great number of practical applications. Tremendous amounts of money would be made off it rather than whatever these guys are pulling down selling DVDs allegedly teaching you how to do it. But it isn't. The only money being made off it is in talking about it. There seems to be a major disconnect there to me.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Are there any real FOIA government documents that confirm that? Why did they dissolve the group if they were being productive?

http://www.cosmicspoon.com/blog/uploaded_images/CRV1-743780.jpg
The above link is to a 1985 CRV training manual/document - found in the Stargate FOIA archives.
As far as why it was dissolved. I believe there was dispute amongst the military as to if and why it should be continued to be funded. The program was transferred to the CIA and eventually disbanded.

 

[Xylo]

Are there any real FOIA government documents that confirm that? Why did they dissolve the group if they were being productive?

The last statistic I heard was a claim of 70% accuracy in readings...not exactly the kind of intel that I'd want to bet my troops lives upon-yet still better than the 50% accuracy of chance.

 

[trainedobserver]

Personally, I think that canine smellepathy is far more powerful.

j.r.

Point well taken! Animal minds, their behaviors, and abilities emerge from a very different range and focus of sensory input. Some animals, like migrating birds, may use things like magnetic fields and use them to navigate. Who knows what their inner mental representation of the outside world is really like. Other birds I imagine.

It appears that mind to mind communication is theoretically possible. I personally haven't been convinced that it is viable or remotely understood. Others may be and that's cool by me.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

The last statistic I heard was a claim of 70% accuracy in readings...not exactly the kind of intel that I'd want to bet my troops lives upon-yet still better than the 50% accuracy of chance.

Remote Viewing intel was never intended to be relied upon independently. It was always correlated with other, standard forms of intel to give an overall picture. Although some RV data that was collected was way higher than 70 % accurate.

 

[boomerang]

How about: There are classes of phenomena that are real, but elude the scientific method because as we study them, they also study us. I put ufos and esp in that category. Ufos are historically in complete control of every encounter with them. They taunt us with thousands of credible anecdotes, but leave little or no actionable evidence behind. Extra Sensory Perception is likewise real when "it" wants to be.

 

[exo_doc]

Wow Tyder, I agreed with everything you said in your first couple of posts. Excellent reasoning, and well said.

Having been around cats and dogs and other furry freinds most of my life, I really do think and feel they can pick up on toughtwaves or whatever not just from people, but other critters as well.