Closed Threads

[PararealitySaint]

Para..... for the 9 billionth time.... I DONT WANT TO DO THAT. This stuff already takes enough of my time and switching between accounts keeping 2 identities and whatnot is cumbersome. Things are different everywhere. Here I can post and moderate in the same name. Thats how it is.

Ok, I understand that you are busy Ron, but please note something here then. As a Moderator it is a responsibility, no, an obligation to differentiate between what is said as an "opinion" in the context of a subject, and what is used as an, "authority" driven challenging riposte.

I have had conflict after conflict with another moderator here in the past because of our differences of opinion as to subject matter, but when the moderator ID is used as a slight to come to the aid of another forum user whose "opinion" is the same as the moderators, and this evolving into a "Ganging up" effect, don't you feel this is inappropriate.....as neither forum member is violating any agreements we all had when accepting the membership, and the Moderators function does not include using authority to force agendas?

Then there is the point about closing threads...What right does a moderator have to close a thread just because he or she thinks the subject matter, "isn't going anywhere?"

In fact, what difference does it make at all if the thread stays open or not?

No, I happen to agree with Pixel here. It isn't a Moderator's job to judge content as being anything unless it violates the terms of the membership agreement or rules of the forum.

Sorry Ron if this seemed to single you out as one of the people that does this, as you have always been fair with your ID usage...Some Other Moderators on here have DEFINITELY NOT!

 

[drew hempel]

I'll say this one more time with feeling. I lobbied to have the qigong thread closed and I wasn't the only one. The moderators were reluctant to do so and only closed it after repeated said complaints. I admit to having strong personal prejudice against magic healing power claims. Right or wrong, that is the truth of the situation. Perhaps I should have just kept my mouth shut and kept out of the thread. However, as I've alluded to, my personal experience of seeing the emotions of victims of chronic disease and their families manipulated by healers and alternative medicine promoters caused a visceral emotional reaction in me. Anyone with much experience could look at some of the MS sufferers giving their qigong testimonies and see they were still suffering from the neurological damage caused by MS. In relapsing/remitting MS patients can appear to respond to a given treatment at first blush only to experience the more often than not, greater magnitude relapse some time after.

Yes I appreciate your concern about fake New Age healers causing pain to people suffering from M.S. The three testimonials about qigong healing M.S. had different levels of healing effects for the people. The person who had been healed by Chunyi Lin -- a qigong master -- that person has no M.S. symptoms.

The other people practicing the qigong for their M.S. seemed happy they were doing it because it relieved their symptoms. You seem to be implying they were coerced into practicing qigong for their M.S. -- maybe hypnotised or mind-controlled into thinking it would work better than Western medicine. On the contrary Chunyi Lin highly recommends Western medicine as well but also it's important to keep in mind that iatrogenic deaths from wrongfully prescribed Western medicine have also been documented as a leading cause of death in top medical journals. Obviously we shouldn't ban Western medicine just because doctors routinely are co-opted by Big Pharma. Similarly qigong healing isn't necessarily fake in itself just because there are some corrupt healers out there.

I was going to post this M.S. chlilel qigong healing result before the thread was closed:

In Chicago there is a woman Catherine who had advanced MS and when she met you she said that the reason she staggered and had to hold the wall and slurred her speech it was not because she was drunk but that she had MS. That was three years ago. I encouraged her to try the chilel class and then she went to China for two weeks while she was at the place they were practicing Dr. Pang visited pulled her out of the lunch line and applied Chi all her symptoms disappeared and she has had two CAT scans and there has been no growth in over two years.

You also brought up the point of relapse -- indicating that if there is any healing from qigong it is just a placebo and that a relapse would actually make the condition worse since it would be unexpected and more severe, etc. I'm sure this can happen but a person healed by qigong is taught the exercises to continue practicing and then the person also continues to get regular annual healings from a qigong master, etc.

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

Drew,

I doubt the study you keep referring to "proves" qigong's existence. What it shows is the wonderful power of the mind and expands on the placebo effect. You are taking a result of one study aimed at investigating alternative mechanisms for coping with pain and using it to validate your religious belief. That is a tenuous if not dubious connection. If you want to have a debate about this, thats fine. But you come off as a guy trying to sell something. We have seen our share of New Age enlightenment peddlers here and it is not tolerated. Perception is often colored by delivery. If you want to alter the perceptions of what you are here to do then I suggest you alter your delivery.


Para..... for the 9 billionth time.... I DONT WANT TO DO THAT. This stuff already takes enough of my time and switching between accounts keeping 2 identities and whatnot is cumbersome. Things are different everywhere. Here I can post and moderate in the same name. Thats how it is.

I just want the record straight that indeed I posted three "gold standard" (randomized controlled peer-reviewed) studies demonstrating qigong has healing results -- not just one.

The Mayo Clinic doctor commented as follows: "Subjects with chronic pain who received external qigong experienced reduction in pain intensity following each qigong treatment. This is especially impressive given the long duration of pain (>5 years) in the most of the participants," writes lead author Ann Vincent, MD, MBBS, Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota.

O.K. so when it's claimed that this "gold standard" qigong study is only a placebo -- then why didn't Western medicine previously heal the chronic pain of these patients? Apparently the mind really is very powerful. haha. Also if the placebo claim is continued -- then why did a person with a rare lung disease, requiring a lung transplant as the only cure, have all her scar tissue vanish? She was on oxygen 24 hours a day and then after 8 weeks of qigong treatments from Chunyi Lin she is no longer on oxygen and there's no scar tissue -- this was verified by the Mayo Clinic and it was corroborated by the local news. Ester Trejo:

A long time ago I had a student called Esther Trejo. She had been on oxygen for six and a half years, for 24 hours a day, diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic that she needed a double lung transplant but she didn’t want to do that. She came to the class, she practiced the exercise - the part that I just taught you – very often. Four weeks later she stopped using oxygen. Eight weeks later she completely got rid of the oxygen. This was documented in the Mayo Clinic. They called this a miracle healing. Even the lung scar tissue disappeared. She didn’t need a double lung transplant and now it has been 17 years. She has been breathing with her own lungs – perfect lungs.

Transcript of Chunyi Lins Interview - The Tao Bums

So it's factually incorrect to state that it's just a placebo effect. Were Western doctors electrically shocked when they touched qigong master John Chang -- just because they had been hypnotized? It's possible but then why did their tests of his electricity show him lighting up bulbs with his hands?

Again three "gold standard" (randomized, controlled peer-reviewed) studies not only proves that qigong has real healing effects but that those effects have been replicated in a standardized testing regime -- which means they are proven to be real. This means qigong single-handedly proves paranormal powers and thereby radically challenges our whole Western perspective of reality.

 

[Ron Collins]

Ok, I understand that you are busy Ron, but please note something here then. As a Moderator it is a responsibility, no, an obligation to differentiate between what is said as an "opinion" in the context of a subject, and what is used as an, "authority" driven challenging riposte.

I have had conflict after conflict with another moderator here in the past because of our differences of opinion as to subject matter, but when the moderator ID is used as a slight to come to the aid of another forum user whose "opinion" is the same as the moderators, and this evolving into a "Ganging up" effect, don't you feel this is inappropriate.....as neither forum member is violating any agreements we all had when accepting the membership, and the Moderators function does not include using authority to force agendas?

Then there is the point about closing threads...What right does a moderator have to close a thread just because he or she thinks the subject matter, "isn't going anywhere?"

In fact, what difference does it make at all if the thread stays open or not?

No, I happen to agree with Pixel here. It isn't a Moderator's job to judge content as being anything unless it violates the terms of the membership agreement or rules of the forum.

Sorry Ron if this seemed to single you out as one of the people that does this, as you have always been fair with your ID usage...Some Other Moderators on here have DEFINITELY NOT!

The moderating team we have now really strives to be judicious in the use of our power. We, at Gene's direction, err on the side of doing nothing and allowing things to develop. I can tell you that in the past 13 months since I have been a moderator I have been asked only 4 times to close a thread by members. I only did so twice. This was the only time that I have had numerous requests. Drew's messages seemed to be trying to sell something. That, as you know is not permitted. I felt it had gone on long enough and closed the thread. As I understand Gene's direction, I was well in my rights to do so.

If I were closing threads, deleting posts, and banning people left and right I could totally understand your concerns. But, I am not and neither is any other current moderator. I have also never done these things to advance my personal agenda. Nor do I think any other current moderator has done.

I will disagree with you and Pixel on the moderators duties and job description. I will leave it at that.

At the end of the day, we do the best we can. Listen, I wont take offense if someone complains to Gene about something I have done as a moderator or member. If he thinks I or any other moderator has overstepped their bounds he will tell us. I have never had any qualms admitting when I am wrong or apologizing when it is appropriate. I dont think any other Moderator has a problem doing this either. We are all human.... as far s you know.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

As I've told them on more than one occasion, I fully support our moderators. It's a thankless task, and these forums are the better because of their work.

In saying that, it's unfortunate that there are occasional false rumors that we seriously micromanage these forums. As most of you regulars know, we don't close threads all that often, and banning or restricting a member's posting privileges is done only rarely. Most of the time, it's for spamming, and otherwise for extreme behavior that violates our Terms of Service. But we try to be benevolent dictators here, meaning that we give our members far more freedom than even those terms specify. It takes a lot to cross the limits from acceptable to unacceptable behavior.

The folks who write tall tales about us are probably jealous of the show's success, and the success of these forums. Or they just like to lie.

 

[PararealitySaint]

I will disagree with you and Pixel on the moderators duties and job description. I will leave it at that.

Ron,

As I mentioned in my last post, this was not about you. Although I have said that you do not take advantage of your Moderation position on this forum, I would not go so far as stating that everyone follows your distinct outline and can be included in comparison.

Lastly, I was agreeing with Pixel as far as the overall situation with some moderators on this forum, not necessarily with his current situation.

Moderators aren't here to force their personal point of view or position relative to subject matter on members and I can guarantee you Gene feels this way as well.

 

[drew hempel]

The moderating team we have now really strives to be judicious in the use of our power. We, at Gene's direction, err on the side of doing nothing and allowing things to develop. I can tell you that in the past 13 months since I have been a moderator I have been asked only 4 times to close a thread by members. I only did so twice. This was the only time that I have had numerous requests. Drew's messages seemed to be trying to sell something. That, as you know is not permitted. I felt it had gone on long enough and closed the thread. As I understand Gene's direction, I was well in my rights to do so.

If I were closing threads, deleting posts, and banning people left and right I could totally understand your concerns. But, I am not and neither is any other current moderator. I have also never done these things to advance my personal agenda. Nor do I think any other current moderator has done.

I will disagree with you and Pixel on the moderators duties and job description. I will leave it at that.

At the end of the day, we do the best we can. Listen, I wont take offense if someone complains to Gene about something I have done as a moderator or member. If he thinks I or any other moderator has overstepped their bounds he will tell us. I have never had any qualms admitting when I am wrong or apologizing when it is appropriate. I dont think any other Moderator has a problem doing this either. We are all human.... as far s you know.

Again I repeatedly stated I was not selling anything. It's factually incorrect to claim I'm selling something. To say I seem to be selling something is not a reason to close a thread. I made very clear that all the information I post online is free -- I have a free book discussing these issues of qigong healing -- but in the context of "ancient mysteries" -- going back to the Bushmen Khoisan culture.

So the forum is "ancient mysteries" -- doctors charge for their medicine. Just because I post links to people who have been healed by qigong masters and who have paid money to do so doesn't mean that I am selling anything.

There's absolutely no evidence I'm selling anything and I have gone out of my way to make that clear. If anyone searches my name online you find that for the past ten years I have posted free information and free research -- my book has over 700 references to other peoples' scholarly research.

So if a moderator PMs me stating it seems you might ask for a solicitation later on -- that is some sort of pre-emptive judgment against me without any evidence.

If anyone can find any evidence of me selling anything online -- go right ahead. I do have some old versions of my book for sale -- but only "at cost" so I get no money and also I made sure there is full free download of the books. So even in that rare instance I'm not selling anything.

I've made sure to distance myself from money as much as possible just to ensure that these issues can be discussed without there being any implications of ulterior motives.

If a person is claiming I'm selling something then they should present evidence -- instead there was constant accusations -- even on this thread -- that I am selling something.

Calling me a "snakeoil salesmen" or stating it's an "infomercial" or stating I'm "peddling" something -- or that I have a "hard sell" --

The latest is:

Just leave off some of the "zowy, wowy, ya oughta buy this" and talk a little bit.

Well qigong is "zowy, wowy" haha. Again no one has to spend money to practice qigong. The philosophy and basis of the practice is "complementary opposite resonance" -- this is the music model that I've been presenting. The practice is simple. there are tons of youtube videos showing how to practice. Anyone can do it. I gave out several links to free full books online giving the practice details. O.K. I've gone out of my way to make qigong information as free as possible.

 

[trainedobserver]

The person who had been healed by Chunyi Lin -- a qigong master -- that person has no M.S. symptoms. The other people practicing the qigong for their M.S. seemed happy they were doing it because it relieved their symptoms. You seem to be implying they were coerced into practicing qigong for their M.S. -- maybe hypnotised or mind-controlled into thinking it would work better than Western medicine.

I am implying that you are a credulous individual with little or no common sense who by extension assumes everyone else on the planet must be sufferring from the same condition. MFG! I can't believe you used this as excuse to post those videos yet again.

 

[Hotkafka]

I am implying that you are a credulous individual with little or no common sense who by extension assumes everyone else on the planet must be sufferring from the same condition. MFG! I can't believe you used this as excuse to post those videos yet again.

I thought the same thing. And that's what Drew doesn't seem to be getting.

I mean, I get it. Like Paul on the road to Damascus, Drew, you have been changed and that's a powerful and wonderful thing -but you don't seem to be aware that what you're participating in has in essence become the new buiz of contemporary fundies from o'er the world: providing proof of the miraculous. Qi Gong has simply joined the ranks. Perhaps I should start threads for the thousands of similar claims and associated studies of Christians, Catholics, Zorastrians, Buddists, Kabbalists, Muslims, New Agers, Shamans, Witchdoctors, and on and on, well on into the realms of infinitum. It's not that I don't think that there isn't anything here to be investigated, it's just that what comes across in these exchanges is the dubious lack of awareness of the zealotry propelling the action; and therein a consequential bias to reduce similar claims and beliefs across the religious and spirtual spectrum as inconsequential and perhaps even worthy of ridicule. This to me clearly suggests one is pushing an agenda.

And this move is certainly dubious at best, i.e.: Qi Gong can't be studied by scientific methods due to the nondual nature of consciousness - but I'll certainly turn around and trumpet a scientific study conducted by the Mayo Clinic? Hmm.

 

[drew hempel]

I thought the same thing. And that's what Drew doesn't seem to be getting.

I mean, I get it. Like Paul on the road to Damascus, Drew, you have been changed and that's a powerful and wonderful thing -but you don't seem to be aware that what you're participating in has in essence become the new buiz of contemporary fundies from o'er the world: providing proof of the miraculous. Qi Gong has simply joined the ranks. Perhaps I should start threads for the thousands of similar claims and associated studies of Christians, Catholics, Zorastrians, Buddists, Kabbalists, Muslims, New Agers, Shamans, Witchdoctors, and on and on, well on into the realms of infinitum. It's not that I don't think that there isn't anything here to be investigated, it's just that what comes across in these exchanges is the dubious lack of awareness of the zealotry propelling the action; and therein a consequential bias to reduce similar claims and beliefs across the religious and spirtual spectrum as inconsequential and perhaps even worthy of ridicule. This to me clearly suggests one is pushing an agenda.

And this move is certainly dubious at best, i.e.: Qi Gong can't be studied by scientific methods due to the nondual nature of consciousness - but I'll certainly turn around and trumpet a scientific study conducted by the Mayo Clinic? Hmm.

First of all people seem to be forgetting that this is a forum....for paranormal issues -- with a subforum called "ancient mysteries".... Hello? Where am I supposed to post the topic of "ancient mysteries" healing then on this forum?

Secondly to say qigong can not be studied by scientific methods is blatantly misrepresenting the facts. Again I presented three gold standard studies -- randomized controlled, peer-reviewed standards. I gave the link stating that this is the gold standard for scientific research.

Three gold standard scientific studies proving qigong. People seem to want to keep ignoring this basic fact.

Is the "gold standard" the same as a "double blind" standard. Nope it isn't. Can science be done without a double blind standard? Well yes a gold standard science study can be done without the double blind.

Is a gold standard science study good enough for theparacast? Gee I don't know....

Oops. Theparacast is the gold standard of paranormal radio.

Damn this is funny.

---------- Post added at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------

I am implying that you are a credulous individual with little or no common sense who by extension assumes everyone else on the planet must be sufferring from the same condition. MFG! I can't believe you used this as excuse to post those videos yet again.

Wow -- you are attacking me when I responded to your claim that the three M.S. videos I posted were people still suffering from M.S. symptoms. I'm posting direct evidence that proves you are wrong -- so what do you do? Not respond to the evidence but instead claim that I should not have posted the evidence. Which is the whole point of this thread -- staying on the subject matter instead of doing ad hominem attacks.

Did the M.S. qigong video I present demonstrate that the person was not suffering from the symptoms? Yes. Did you claim that the M.S. qigong videos I presented still have people suffering from M.S. symptoms? Yes. Did my presentation of the video a second time demonstrate that you were wrong. Yes.

It's quite simple -- it's the evidence speaking on its own terms.

 

[Hotkafka]

First of all people seem to be forgetting that this is a forum....for paranormal issues -- with a subforum called "ancient mysteries".... Hello? Where am I supposed to post the topic of "ancient mysteries" healing then on this forum?

Secondly to say qigong can not be studied by scientific methods is blatantly misrepresenting the facts. Again I presented three gold standard studies -- randomized controlled, peer-reviewed standards. I gave the link stating that this is the gold standard for scientific research.

Three gold standard scientific studies proving qigong. People seem to want to keep ignoring this basic fact.

Is the "gold standard" the same as a "double blind" standard. Nope it isn't. Can science be done without a double blind standard? Well yes a gold standard science study can be done without the double blind.

Is a gold standard science study good enough for theparacast? Gee I don't know....

Oops. Theparacast is the gold standard of paranormal radio.

Damn this is funny.

---------- Post added at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------



Wow -- you are attacking me when I responded to your claim that the three M.S. videos I posted were people still suffering from M.S. symptoms. I'm posting direct evidence that proves you are wrong -- so what do you do? Not respond to the evidence but instead claim that I should not have posted the evidence. Which is the whole point of this thread -- staying on the subject matter instead of doing ad hominem attacks.

Did the M.S. qigong video I present demonstrate that the person was not suffering from the symptoms? Yes. Did you claim that the M.S. qigong videos I presented still have people suffering from M.S. symptoms? Yes. Did my presentation of the video a second time demonstrate that you were wrong. Yes.

It's quite simple -- it's the evidence speaking on its own terms.

Ok, I'll acknowledge your rebuttal on the Gold Standard as opposed to Double Blind - as this approach seems a good fit for measuring the healing effects of Qi Gong. But... "Whooooosh!" on the rest of your reply. As in that's the sound of the point whizzing well past your head.

 

[kukalakana]

I'd like to put something in support of the Moderators here. I know that I am relatively new to this forum, but have seen little / no evidence so far of overly-judicious interference. I also do some volunteer modding on another site, and as far as deleting posts or closing threads is concerned, I understand that this does not happen without consideration -- is not always a popular move with everyone, and on occasion perhaps not always "correct". And it's not always going to make us users happy.

 

[drew hempel]

Ok, I'll acknowledge your rebuttal on the Gold Standard as opposed to Double Blind - as this approach seems a good fit for measuring the healing effects of Qi Gong. But... "Whooooosh!" on the rest of your reply. As in that's the sound of the point whizzing well past your head.

Whooooosh. You got it. That's exactly my argument. Non-western music as the common underlying explanation to paranormal energy. The philosophy of complementary opposite resonance. So yin-yang-Emptiness of Taoism equals the three gunas of India, the oldest philosophy of India equals the 1-4-5 Pythagorean Tetrad ratios equals the Bushman Khoisan trance dance healing culture which spread across the world -- as charted through this anthropology blog: Sounding the Depths This is a practice of body-mind transformation that is modeled by non-western music theory. It's simple but the simplest is the most powerful. So a person can just do the practice -- words don't matter.

Call it the Whooooosh Practice if you want. As Dr. Victor Grauer states:

While the Chinese myth places the Yellow Emperor and the Yellow Bell well back into a vaguely defined “olden times,” when China itself was being established as a state, according to my version of the myth tuned pipes originated at a much earlier time, before modern humans voyaged out of Africa -- and well before that, to the time before humans learned to speak to one another. And despite all the many tens of thousands of years from that primeval time to this, we still find ensembles of pipes and panpipes, still cut from lengths of cane, still tuned, in a great many cases (though not all), more or less according to the system described in the story of the Yellow Bell, based on the simple whole number ratios, 2/3 and 4/3.

Remarkably, we still find, all over the world, musical traditions, both instrumental and vocal, based, more or less, on those exact same ratios.[SUP]1[/SUP] And just as the Yellow Bell became the foundation of so much that was central to Chinese civilization, so did the ratios long ago established in the “law of pipes” become the foundation of so much of importance in other civilizations, as, for example, in the pioneering mathematics and physics of the ancient Greeks, where the exact same ratios were “discovered” by Pythagoras.

 

[trainedobserver]

I'm posting direct evidence that proves you are wrong ...

That you think those youTube videos, or any such testimonials, are proof only illustrates my point.

I have to excuse myself from this discussion and any future ones about faith healing, spiritual healing, or alternative medicine in general as I cannot approach it with any degree of objectivity and detachment.

 

[Terjarv]

Can we go back to talking about Seinfeld again?

 

[trainedobserver]

Can we go back to talking about Seinfeld again?

Which brings to mind the question, "Are there any UFO/Paranormal references in any Seinfeld episode?" I don't think there is. Very curious indeed!

 

[PararealitySaint]

Which brings to mind the question, "Are there any UFO/Paranormal references in any Seinfeld episode?" I don't think there is. Very curious indeed!

LOL! I don't know anything about Seinfeld's show but I can tell you one very strange tune I came across the other day which I had no idea existed.

Even though I am a little out of the generation that used to listen to Credence Clearwater Revival, I practically grew up with my mother and she loved all sorts of what most would consider "classic" today.

Did anyone ever hear of the tune, "It came out of the sky" by CCR? LOL!

God for someone who considered himself a CCR fan, I sure screwed the pooch on this one....

What a funny tune!

Lyrics:

It Came Out Of The Sky lyrics

IT CAME OUT OF THE SKY

Oh, it came out of the sky, landed just a little South of Moline.
Jody fell out of his tractor, couldn't b'lieve what he seen.
Laid on the ground and shook fearin' for his life.
Then he ran all the way to town screamin' it came out of the sky.

Well, a crowd gathered round and a scientish said it was marsh gas.
Spiro came and made a speech about raising the Mars tax.
The Vatican said, woe, the Lord has come, Hollywood rushed out an epic film
and Ronnie in Popular said it was a communist plot.

Oh, the newspapers came and made Jody a national hero.
Walter and Eric said they'd put him on a network TV show.
The White House said, put the thing in the Blue Room, the Vatican said,
no, it belongs to Rome
and Jody said, it's mine and you can have it for seventeen million.

Oh, it came out of the sky, landed just a little South of Moline.
Jody fell out of his tractor, couldn't b lieve what he seen.
Laid on the ground a shakin', fearin' for his life.
Oh, then he ran all the way to town screamin' it came out of the sky.

- John C. Fogerty

 

[pixelsmith]

LOL! I don't know anything about Seinfeld's show but I can tell you one very strange tune I came across the other day which I had no idea existed.

Even though I am a little out of the generation that used to listen to Credence Clearwater Revival, I practically grew up with my mother and she loved all sorts of what most would consider "classic" today.

Did anyone ever hear of the tune, "It came out of the sky" by CCR? LOL!

God for someone who considered himself a CCR fan, I sure screwed the pooch on this one....

What a funny tune!

Lyrics:

It Came Out Of The Sky lyrics

IT CAME OUT OF THE SKY

Oh, it came out of the sky, landed just a little South of Moline.
Jody fell out of his tractor, couldn't b'lieve what he seen.
Laid on the ground and shook fearin' for his life.
Then he ran all the way to town screamin' it came out of the sky.

Well, a crowd gathered round and a scientish said it was marsh gas.
Spiro came and made a speech about raising the Mars tax.
The Vatican said, woe, the Lord has come, Hollywood rushed out an epic film
and Ronnie in Popular said it was a communist plot.

Oh, the newspapers came and made Jody a national hero.
Walter and Eric said they'd put him on a network TV show.
The White House said, put the thing in the Blue Room, the Vatican said,
no, it belongs to Rome
and Jody said, it's mine and you can have it for seventeen million.

Oh, it came out of the sky, landed just a little South of Moline.
Jody fell out of his tractor, couldn't b lieve what he seen.
Laid on the ground a shakin', fearin' for his life.
Oh, then he ran all the way to town screamin' it came out of the sky.

- John C. Fogerty

Great tune. Thanks for a blast from the past.

 

[drew hempel]

That you think those youTube videos, or any such testimonials, are proof only illustrates my point.

I have to excuse myself from this discussion and any future ones about faith healing, spiritual healing, or alternative medicine in general as I cannot approach it with any degree of objectivity and detachment.

Yes let's illustrate your point --

Anyone with much experience could look at some of the MS sufferers giving their qigong testimonies and see they were still suffering from the neurological damage caused by MS.

So you're referring to the videos. Not me. I responded to you with the clear evidence that the video you refer to shows someone who does not have any M.S. symptoms. Now I'm going to post the M.S. testimonial again -- because we need to make this very very clear.

I'm going to post your quote again and then the video.

Anyone with much experience could look at some of the MS sufferers giving their qigong testimonies and see they were still suffering from the neurological damage caused by MS.

Case closed.

Now you can then imply that the person is lying or is a paid actor, etc. As I stated previously the local news corroborated these testimonies as has their doctors.

 

[Ron Collins]

Which brings to mind the question, "Are there any UFO/Paranormal references in any Seinfeld episode?" I don't think there is. Very curious indeed!

Lets see, there were the two George's. Relationship George and Independent George. Thats like a doppelganger thingy.



---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

Questions for Drew.


Drew, can Qigong help cure me from the following afflictions.

Strep Throat
Athletes foot
Urinary tract infection
Gonorrhea
Pancreatic Cancer
Gout
Hypothyroidism
Restless Leg syndrome
HIV
Tuberculosis
Lou Gehrig' s disease
Recurring migraine headaches
Liver or Kidney failure
The Common Cold

???

 

[drew hempel]

Lets see, there were the two George's. Relationship George and Independent George. Thats like a doppelganger thingy.



---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 PM ----------

Questions for Drew.


Drew, can Qigong help cure me from the following afflictions.

Strep Throat
Athletes foot
Urinary tract infection
Gonorrhea
Pancreatic Cancer
Gout
Hypothyroidism
Restless Leg syndrome
HIV
Tuberculosis
Lou Gehrig' s disease
Recurring migraine headaches
Liver or Kidney failure
The Common Cold

???

Questions for Drew.


Drew, can Qigong help cure me from the following afflictions.

Strep Throat
Athletes foot
Urinary tract infection
Gonorrhea
Pancreatic Cancer
Gout
Hypothyroidism
Restless Leg syndrome
HIV
Tuberculosis
Lou Gehrig' s disease
Recurring migraine headaches
Liver or Kidney failure
The Common Cold

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Spring Forest Qigong -- Home


Do you suffer from...

• General pain: neck, shoulder, knee, postoperative pains, arthritis, joint pain
• Migraine headaches, sinus problems, allergies
• Spinal problems
• Weight control
• Hearing or sight problems
• Female or male organ problems
• Kidney or liver dysfunction
• Strokes
• Glandular dysfunction such as thyroid problems
• Anxiety
• Diabetes problems
• Gall or kidney stones
• Heart disease: heart attacks, congestive heart failure, recovery from heart surgery, and general heart dysfunction
• Circulation problems
• Depression
• Cancers
• Lung problems
• Digestion problems
• Autoimmune dysfunction such as AIDS and lupus
• Bone marrow problems
• Mental disorders: post traumatic stress disorder, panic attacks, addictions, obsessive/compulsive disorder, hyperactivity, dyslexia
• Comas
• Stress

The point being that qigong -- or non-western energy healing -- works on the energy source of imbalance in the body-mind -- and this energy source can then heal any physical problem in the body-mind. So non-western energy healing applies to any type of physical disharmony in the body-mind.