Conspiracy Theorist Convinces Neil Armstrong Moon Landing Was Faked

[Angel of Ioren]

Yes, the Apollo spacecraft required shielding to protect the astronauts from the radiation during the short time they were inside the Belts. Using a 1959 quote to debunk a 1969 event (a decade unprecedented in space discoveries) might be unwise (but I'll bet it wows some folks).

Hey why didn't you also pull out the old, "Man will never fly" one, too?

I am just wondering the kind of person for whom this this kind of logic is compelling? This sad state of affairs has led me to decide to gradually stop following this forum. I want to get my Kelly Johnson article done and see the conclusion of the Phillips' Man-Bear-Pig photo and then I think I will withdraw.

Lance

P.S. @ Tom--the quote you have above of me was from a post that I deleted shortly after posting (but unfortunately not before you read it)--I thought it was too harsh and did not reflect my intentions accurately.

Lance, please don't leave, I don't know what I'll do without your acerbic wit.

Anytime you want to compare IQ, academic achievements, professional achievements, net worth created (not inherited), etc., I am more than happy to do so. I don't need, and won't stand for, your bullshit comments. Understand? If you happen to actually look at the evidence with an open mind, then you may approach this topic differently.

@Tom
This is not a pissing contest and I am sick of this open mind garbage. We landed on the moon, we have physical evidence such as rocks, film, photos, people that went there, a giant expensive rocket that was shot out into space, reflectors on the moon that were placed there by humans (not some sort of aliens, unless you think that the moon is some sort of spaceship, and at that point I give up) etc. Thinking that the moon landing is a hoax is a ridiculous notion. You do realize this thread was started to make fun of people that think that, right?
Why is it that some people take horrible "evidence" (and those are really sarcastic quotes, since most of this evidence is garbage) of alien abductions and UFOs and ghosts and 400 pound monsters in the woods and think its true, and then many of those same people refuse to believe we landed on the moon when we have undeniable proof of it. Show me the same type of proof of the paranormal and I'll quit being a skeptic, become a born again Christian Warrior, and then dance a jig with Santa Claus.

I'm sick of garbage like this. That video doesn't give us anything to think about. The funny thing about science is that it changes all the time, that's what makes it different from religion. Scientists don't like being proven wrong, they welcome it.

Ahh, that felt good.

 

[Ron Collins]

Lance, please don't leave, I don't know what I'll do without your acerbic wit.


@Tom
This is not a pissing contest and I am sick of this open mind garbage. We landed on the moon, we have physical evidence such as rocks, film, photos, people that went there, a giant expensive rocket that was shot out into space, reflectors on the moon that were placed there by humans (not some sort of aliens, unless you think that the moon is some sort of spaceship, and at that point I give up) etc. Thinking that the moon landing is a hoax is a ridiculous notion. You do realize this thread was started to make fun of people that think that, right?
Why is it that some people take horrible "evidence" (and those are really sarcastic quotes, since most of this evidence is garbage) of alien abductions and UFOs and ghosts and 400 pound monsters in the woods and think its true, and then many of those same people refuse to believe we landed on the moon when we have undeniable proof of it. Show me the same type of proof of the paranormal and I'll quit being a skeptic, become a born again Christian Warrior, and then dance a jig with Santa Claus.

I'm sick of garbage like this. That video doesn't give us anything to think about. The funny thing about science is that it changes all the time, that's what makes it different from religion. Scientists don't like being proven wrong, they welcome it.

Ahh, that felt good.

Personally, I am 100% certain we landed on the moon. There isn't even the slightest percentage of a chance that we did not. With paranormal phenomenon, the jury is still out. The moon landings were nothing paranormal. It was a careful application of a science and technology cocktail combined with gigantic titanium balls and shit tons of money.

There is nothing that man can not solve given enough time, money, and proper motivation. I mean nothing. The atomic bomb and the lunar landings are proof of this. At least to me and literally everyone I have ever spoken to on the subject. So I share the collective frustration about the lunar landing hoax talk. I have never given much credence to conspiracy theory of any sort. Its just too exhaustive for such little gain.

Here is the deal though, it is a prevalent conspiracy theory. Some people believe in them and others do not. But, many people here do. This is the proper place for those theories to rest. I spend the smallest fraction of my time in this section because of my anit-conspiracy proclivities. Even during my moderation duties I cringe at the thought of coming in here. I tend to treat this as the forgotten closet in the attic. I suggest many of you with like proclivities do the same. It will keep you sane.

@Lance: We dont always agree but I like and respect your viewpoints. Personally, I was hoping to move from the Kelly Johnson case on to other prevalent cases. Frankly you and Angelo have actually done more for the intelligent presentation of the skeptic argument than Shermer, McGaha and Shostak combined. Albeit with a lot more colorful language, sarcasm, and sharpness of speech. But I chalk that up to personality.

 

[justcurious]

I am surprised at the moderating team's uneven perception and/or tolerance toward insults, personal attacks and rude language sometimes. But it's OK we're humans.

I don't think that Tom has concluded that no man has walked on the moon, neither have I. So why bark so loud ?
I discuss this very topic with a couple of astrophysicists, both of them published in scientific journal with referees, and they also think that there are some legitimate questions about the Apollo program. So it's not a bunch of weekend readers of scientific vulgarisation magazines, with a collection of debunking websites bookmarks that's going to worry me...

Lets chill a bit...

​

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

Lance, please don't leave, I don't know what I'll do without your acerbic wit.


@Tom
This is not a pissing contest and I am sick of this open mind garbage. We landed on the moon, we have physical evidence such as rocks, film, photos, people that went there, a giant expensive rocket that was shot out into space, reflectors on the moon that were placed there by humans (not some sort of aliens, unless you think that the moon is some sort of spaceship, and at that point I give up) etc. Thinking that the moon landing is a hoax is a ridiculous notion. You do realize this thread was started to make fun of people that think that, right?
Why is it that some people take horrible "evidence" (and those are really sarcastic quotes, since most of this evidence is garbage) of alien abductions and UFOs and ghosts and 400 pound monsters in the woods and think its true, and then many of those same people refuse to believe we landed on the moon when we have undeniable proof of it. Show me the same type of proof of the paranormal and I'll quit being a skeptic, become a born again Christian Warrior, and then dance a jig with Santa Claus.

I'm sick of garbage like this. That video doesn't give us anything to think about. The funny thing about science is that it changes all the time, that's what makes it different from religion. Scientists don't like being proven wrong, they welcome it.

Ahh, that felt good.

Angle of Ioren, three points:

(i) please show me exactly where I state in this thread, or elsewhere, that I am convinced that mankind did not go to the moon. Please be precise. For such a long, definitive charge like the one you level above, you really should be specific in your statements.

To be clear, I have stated that I personally believe some/many/all of the moon photos and videos are not genuine, and I have stated that the science surrounding radiation presents bona fide questions about the actual landing, but I maintain that I do not have the conclusive answer on the latter point. Indeed, that is why I posted the video above which quotes James van Allen's article in Scientific American (which unfortunately drew Michael Allen's post).

(ii) with respect to Michael Allen's nasty response to my post above, you are sadly mistaken if you think that I am going to remain silent. Generally I try to be positive with people on this Forum, even if they do not agree with me, and my long track record bears this out. But I have my limits with some of the attitude that gets thrown around here. If Michael Allen comes back with more of the same, he will get more of the same, full stop.

(iii) as a moderator, shouldn't you ideally be neutral in terms of your positions on topics? Frankly, what I observe is a small group of self-appointed "skeptics" (like the rest of the participants here are incapable of thinking critically) who routinely, with their "acerbic wit," browbeat other participants on the Forum who may not agree with them. I think it would be interesting to compare both the number and frequency of Forum activity when David Biedny served as moderator vs. the current regime. Anecdotally, there has been a significant drop off in terms of both (others have made similar comments). This is not to say that David didn't have his faults, but I liked the guy because he was balanced between skepticism and open-mindedness (and he was instrumental in making the Paracast what it is).

On several occasions, I have contemplated making a significant financial donation to the Paracast given the enjoyment I get from many of the shows. In each instance I have opted against it, largely as a direct result of the group think, acerbic attitudes and brow beating I witness on the Forum these days. Your nonsense comments above confirm my prior decisions. At the end of the day, it is no skin off my behind -- it is just more money my wife and I can donate to the deserving charities which we otherwise support.

 

[justcurious]

I am sick of this open mind garbage.

That was a courageous confession, your honesty is appreciated.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

On several occasions, I have contemplated making a significant financial donation to the Paracast given the enjoyment I get from many of the shows. In each instance I have opted against it, largely as a direct result of the group think, acerbic attitudes and brow beating I witness on the Forum these days. Your nonsense comments above confirm my prior decisions. At the end of the day, it is no skin off my behind -- it is just more money my wife and I can donate to the deserving charities which we otherwise support.

I'm sorry to hear that. This is, though, an open forum, and we don't remove people except for serious offenses. But it's also true that, in every online forum, a few regulars will skew the content one way or the other.

The solution is always for people who don't like the prevailing winds to jump in and present their own points of view. That way, we get a wider range of viewpoints. Also, if someone is particularly offensive to you, if they haven't broken the rules, just ignore them. That's the best way to make a forum experience more pleasant.

The problems in the past resulted from banning people for specious reasons, not because they actually broke our terms of service, and that's not right either.

Thanks for being a part of the forums — and we hope you'll reconsider that donation.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Angle of Ioren, three points:

(i) please show me exactly where I state in this thread, or elsewhere, that I am convinced that mankind did not go to the moon. Please be precise. For such a long, definitive charge like the one you level above, you really should be specific in your statements.

To be clear, I have stated that I personally believe some/many/all of the moon photos and videos are not genuine, and I have stated that the science surrounding radiation presents bona fide questions about the actual landing, but I maintain that I do not have the conclusive answer on the latter point. Indeed, that is why I posted the video above which quotes James van Allen's article in Scientific American (which unfortunately drew Michael Allen's post).

(ii) with respect to Michael Allen's nasty response to my post above, you are sadly mistaken if you think that I am going to remain silent. Generally I try to be positive with people on this Forum, even if they do not agree with me, and my long track record bears this out. But I have my limits with some of the attitude that gets thrown around here. If Michael Allen comes back with more of the same, he will get more of the same, full stop.

(iii) as a moderator, shouldn't you ideally be neutral in terms of your positions on topics? Frankly, what I observe is a small group of self-appointed "skeptics" (like the rest of the participants here are incapable of thinking critically) who routinely, with their "acerbic wit," browbeat other participants on the Forum who may not agree with them. I think it would be interesting to compare both the number and frequency of Forum activity when David Biedny served as moderator vs. the current regime. Anecdotally, there has been a significant drop off in terms of both (others have made similar comments). This is not to say that David didn't have his faults, but I liked the guy because he was balanced between skepticism and open-mindedness (and he was instrumental in making the Paracast what it is).

On several occasions, I have contemplated making a significant financial donation to the Paracast given the enjoyment I get from many of the shows. In each instance I have opted against it, largely as a direct result of the group think, acerbic attitudes and brow beating I witness on the Forum these days. Your nonsense comments above confirm my prior decisions. At the end of the day, it is no skin off my behind -- it is just more money my wife and I can donate to the deserving charities which we otherwise support.

You repeat it in the above post: Am I not to take the fact that you say, "I personally believe some/many/all of the moon photos and videos are not genuine" to be that you think man did not make it to the moon? If I misunderstood, I apologize, but that's the way I read it.
Also, my presence here is preventing you from donating to the site? If that's the case, I'll gladly leave and never comment again if it would allow Gene to get some money for his fantastic show. If you have a problem with the way I carry myself on this forum, please PM me and we can discuss it.

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------

That was a courageous confession, your honesty is appreciated.

Yeah, I'm sure you'll read that how ever you want to. Although I am sure you know exactly what I mean. You can obviously see the quote in my signature.

 

[Ron Collins]

I am surprised at the moderating team's uneven perception and/or tolerance toward insults, personal attacks and rude language sometimes. But it's OK we're humans.

For me it is not the language itself, it is the context and the intent of the language. Also, as I have mentioned before, your personal contributory history to the forum carries weight.

 

[Michael Allen]

Ok...I get it...I was having a bad day and decided to take my irritation out on the moon landing naysayers thread. Sorry if you got the full blown impact of my bitterness, Tom.

That doesn't change the fact that--just as 2+2=4, not 5--we most CERTAINLY landed on the moon.

Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV is

This "we-never-landed" nonsense is nothing more than FOX Noise...

 

[Ron Collins]

(iii) as a moderator, shouldn't you ideally be neutral in terms of your positions on topics?

No. I have posted my opinions in these forums for years and agreeing to be a moderator will not change that. I am interested in furthering my understanding and ultimately making a determination on the existence/scope of the phenomenon. I am also interested in helping out where I can.

Frankly, what I observe is a small group of self-appointed "skeptics" (like the rest of the participants here are incapable of thinking critically) who routinely, with their "acerbic wit," browbeat other participants on the Forum who may not agree with them. I think it would be interesting to compare both the number and frequency of Forum activity when David Biedny served as moderator vs. the current regime. Anecdotally, there has been a significant drop off in terms of both (others have made similar comments). This is not to say that David didn't have his faults, but I liked the guy because he was balanced between skepticism and open-mindedness (and he was instrumental in making the Paracast what it is).

I'm curious, am I lumped into the skeptic camp? It doesn't bother me if I am but just curious. I have been here during the occasional drive by skeptics that typically end their time with insult laden rants and unapologetic "FU"'s. That is not what is going on here. If you don't like the moderation, then PM Gene. If he agrees then he will drop us. No animosity if he did. Rest assured, moderating this forum aint as easy as it sounds.

On several occasions, I have contemplated making a significant financial donation to the Paracast given the enjoyment I get from many of the shows. In each instance I have opted against it, largely as a direct result of the group think, acerbic attitudes and brow beating I witness on the Forum these days. Your nonsense comments above confirm my prior decisions. At the end of the day, it is no skin off my behind -- it is just more money my wife and I can donate to the deserving charities which we otherwise support.

Why do you feel compelled to tell us this?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Ok...I get it...I was having a bad day and decided to take my irritation out on the moon landing naysayers thread. Sorry if you got the full blown impact of my bitterness, Tom.

That doesn't change the fact that--just as 2+2=4, not 5--we most CERTAINLY landed on the moon.

Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Bad TV is

This "we-never-landed" nonsense is nothing more than FOX Noise...

Phil Plait is always a voice of reason on this stuff. I can't say enough good things about him.

 

[Keiko]

I have been away and not checked the forums for a while and so have only come across this thread now. I completely agree with Tom that the footage from the moon landing is questionable. I am pretty convinced of that. That does not mean I think we have never landed on the moon or even that we didn’t land on it at the times we said we did. It means that the footage raises serious questions for me - what to conclude from that I don’t know. But I have sat with Edgar Mitchell and discussed his time in Apollo and the moon landings and I believe him - plain and simple. I respect and admire the man not just for his obvious achievements but for his bravery and moral integrity in publicly speaking out about the UFO issue. He believes there are ETs here. I believe that too. I could say I know - that but I can imagine what reaction I’d get from some of the people on the forums.

Intellectual flag waving and endlessly spouting your own position without making any real attempt to engage with what others are saying is pointless to me. Maybe some people just want to prove themselves right in every argument. Personally that seems a colossal waste of time and energy to me.

‘There are known knowns and known unknowns and there are unknown knowns and unknown unknowns’ (D Rumsfeld).

I hate to find myself in agreement with Donald Rumsfeld but it's hard to fault that logic
It’s probably something we can all agree on. But for the record I’d love to be a fly on the wall if Lancemoody had the fortune/misfortune to witness ‘a flying Walmart’ sized craft like some of those nice folks in Stephenville Texas did. It’s funny how something like that effects you…

@ Tom – I agree with what you have said above. I’ve always enjoyed your posts on these forums so I hope you stick around!

 

[tyder001]

O.k. I'm gonna stick my two cents worth in here. Not that I've read all of it...I just wanna pipe up.

First: Yeah I think we landed on the moon.
2nd: No I don't beleive in aliens or nuts and bolts Spaceman Spiff of space brothers. They may be there and I may be proven wrong but "I" have seen nothing that convinces me there is even life "out there" to come here.

However, (and I am open on the above so I don't need a lecture on the billions and billions of stars and planets) I do agree on some respect with a couple of points made. Ron is (for a skeptic) extremely open minded and non dogmatic (imo) so even though we disagree I never feel "browbeat" when discussing things. Angel is a nice guy and I think would be a wonderful neighbor and an interesting person to have coffee with. But, is (imo) a little to tightly wound when it comes to "us vs them" meaning skeptics (read atheist) vs believers. But, that is just a personal opinion and you know what they say about opions and a-holes. (everybody has one.) However, the following quote I can really relate to:

"Frankly, what I observe is a small group of self-appointed "skeptics" (like the rest of the participants here are incapable of thinking critically) who routinely, with their "acerbic wit," browbeat other participants on the Forum who may not agree with them. "

Sorry, guys but I have observed that many folks who used to post and "wonder" about the universe and God and being and spritual reality don't seem to be even trying to post anymore. I have had conversations (trust me) with hard headed Christians who get to a point where they yell "the bible says it and that settles it." Ya just wanna scream! But you finally just get tired and go somewhere that your energy isn't drained. (please don't use this as a excuse to bash faith or the bible just accept the point or don't.) Well, sometime here "skeptics" use the same tatic. It drains energy to put a spiritual perspective out there and hear "Science says" over and over like a religous mantra. Especially when I know several people who do or have done "science" who are not raving skeptics or feel the need to measure everything in a test tube." But, I digress. It just drains your energy after a while and you just give up and stop coming around and just give the show up to the skeptics and the true beleivers in spacemen. Anyway, just my two cents worth. I do notice there is only a handfull of posters here these days who seem to have it all figured out. Sorry to be offensive but that is the way it seems. I sometime wonder if a jimmy randi type group didn't make a concerted "effort" to silence this forum by simply taking it over. But, that would be paranoia. "I think"

 

[Angel of Ioren]

O.k. I'm gonna stick my two cents worth in here. Not that I've read all of it...I just wanna pipe up.

First: Yeah I think we landed on the moon.
2nd: No I don't beleive in aliens or nuts and bolts Spaceman Spiff of space brothers. They may be there and I may be proven wrong but "I" have seen nothing that convinces me there is even life "out there" to come here.

However, (and I am open on the above so I don't need a lecture on the billions and billions of stars and planets) I do agree on some respect with a couple of points made. Ron is (for a skeptic) extremely open minded and non dogmatic (imo) so even though we disagree I never feel "browbeat" when discussing things. Angel is a nice guy and I think would be a wonderful neighbor and an interesting person to have coffee with. But, is (imo) a little to tightly wound when it comes to "us vs them" meaning skeptics (read atheist) vs believers. But, that is just a personal opinion and you know what they say about opions and a-holes. (everybody has one.) However, the following quote I can really relate to:

"Frankly, what I observe is a small group of self-appointed "skeptics" (like the rest of the participants here are incapable of thinking critically) who routinely, with their "acerbic wit," browbeat other participants on the Forum who may not agree with them. "

Sorry, guys but I have observed that many folks who used to post and "wonder" about the universe and God and being and spritual reality don't seem to be even trying to post anymore. I have had conversations (trust me) with hard headed Christians who get to a point where they yell "the bible says it and that settles it." Ya just wanna scream! But you finally just get tired and go somewhere that your energy isn't drained. (please don't use this as a excuse to bash faith or the bible just accept the point or don't.) Well, sometime here "skeptics" use the same tatic. It drains energy to put a spiritual perspective out there and hear "Science says" over and over like a religous mantra. Especially when I know several people who do or have done "science" who are not raving skeptics or feel the need to measure everything in a test tube." But, I digress. It just drains your energy after a while and you just give up and stop coming around and just give the show up to the skeptics and the true beleivers in spacemen. Anyway, just my two cents worth. I do notice there is only a handfull of posters here these days who seem to have it all figured out. Sorry to be offensive but that is the way it seems. I sometime wonder if a jimmy randi type group didn't make a concerted "effort" to silence this forum by simply taking it over. But, that would be paranoia. "I think"

Again with the atheist stuff. What does that have to do with anything at all? I'm really not tightly wound at all - I'm pretty laid back. However, it bugs me that people question events we have proof for (the moon landing) and then take no issue to events that have no real evidence at all (alien visitations or ghosts). That's all I'm saying.
Plus, please point out where I am not thinking critically. Questioning claims that have no real proof is the essence of thinking critically.

 

[tyder001]

Again with the atheist stuff. What does that have to do with anything at all? I'm really not tightly wound at all - I'm pretty laid back. However, it bugs me that people question events we have proof for (the moon landing) and then take no issue to events that have no real evidence at all (alien visitations or ghosts). That's all I'm saying.
Plus, please point out where I am not thinking critically. Questioning claims that have no real proof is the essence of thinking critically.

Sigh! I gotta remember to leave the "a" word out of my post cause for some reason you can't get over it.

"Other than that...how did you like the play Ms. Lincoln?"

---------- Post added at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

That's kind of what I meant. It just takes a lot of energy and then somebody takes "one" thing and the rest of your thoughts might as well not have even been written down. I hate it cause I think Gene works hard on the show. But, the forums have become a running joke. Snide remarks and the same old same old. Still, I keep coming around so I guess I still have hope. But, my points are still out there (as are others here today.)

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

I'm gonna just go ahead and say this. It seems logical to me but maybe I'm wrong. Now, I'm not talking about genuine skeptical people who are honestly searching. I can relate! But, hear me out and then I'll shut up and I'll either continue posting and listening or I won't but that will be a personal decision. Anyway, here goes.

Know why I don't go and join the jimmy randi or other "skeptical" forums? Because I'm logical! By that I mean that I honestly "Don't believe or disbeleive like they do." I never will! EVER! Not because the bible tells me so or science proves it. I just know myself and I am honest enough to know that I can't learn anything from them. Not because they do or do not have anything to teach or show but because my mind is made up! They are wrong! I am right! So, it would be a waste of my time and energy and their time and energy for me to be there. I'd be little more than a "troll."

Yet!, there are folks here who have readily said "I don't beleive in the paranormal" It does not exsist in any form. It is psudeo science at best and fraud at worse! No matter what you say I abslolutely DENY even the possibility that such things as ESP, Reincarnation, Lucid dreaming or even u.f.o.'s have a chance of being real! IT's a fairy tale!

Now, my question to you is : Why are you here? Why waste your time? Your mind is made up. At best you are a misguided evangelical trying to save the ignorant. AT worse you are a troll! Please don't give me the old "I am interested in the cultural value" bullshit! I don't go on santaclaus.com to study something I don't beleive in just for the cultural value.

To be honest this forum should not even be called "para" anything since to state you beleive in the paranormal or even consider it is to risk being labeled a misguided lover of pseudo science at best and a whacked out idiot at worse.

Just my two cents! Sorry if it offends and I know I sometime "shoot from the hip."

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

Sigh! I gotta remember to leave the "a" word out of my post cause for some reason you can't get over it.

"Other than that...how did you like the play Ms. Lincoln?"

---------- Post added at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

That's kind of what I meant. It just takes a lot of energy and then somebody takes "one" thing and the rest of your thoughts might as well not have even been written down. I hate it cause I think Gene works hard on the show. But, the forums have become a running joke. Snide remarks and the same old same old. Still, I keep coming around so I guess I still have hope. But, my points are still out there (as are others here today.)

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

I'm gonna just go ahead and say this. It seems logical to me but maybe I'm wrong. Now, I'm not talking about genuine skeptical people who are honestly searching. I can relate! But, hear me out and then I'll shut up and I'll either continue posting and listening or I won't but that will be a personal decision. Anyway, here goes.

Know why I don't go and join the jimmy randi or other "skeptical" forums? Because I'm logical! By that I mean that I honestly "Don't believe or disbeleive like they do." I never will! EVER! Not because the bible tells me so or science proves it. I just know myself and I am honest enough to know that I can't learn anything from them. Not because they do or do not have anything to teach or show but because my mind is made up! They are wrong! I am right! So, it would be a waste of my time and energy and their time and energy for me to be there. I'd be little more than a "troll."

Yet!, there are folks here who have readily said "I don't beleive in the paranormal" It does not exsist in any form. It is psudeo science at best and fraud at worse! No matter what you say I abslolutely DENY even the possibility that such things as ESP, Reincarnation, Lucid dreaming or even u.f.o.'s have a chance of being real! IT's a fairy tale!

Now, my question to you is : Why are you here? Why waste your time? Your mind is made up. At best you are a misguided evangelical trying to save the ignorant. AT worse you are a troll! Please don't give me the old "I am interested in the cultural value" bullshit! I don't go on santaclaus.com to study something I don't beleive in just for the cultural value.

To be honest this forum should not even be called "para" anything since to state you beleive in the paranormal or even consider it is to risk being labeled a misguided lover of pseudo science at best and a whacked out idiot at worse.

Just my two cents!

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Sigh! I gotta remember to leave the "a" word out of my post cause for some reason you can't get over it.

"Other than that...how did you like the play Ms. Lincoln?"

---------- Post added at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

That's kind of what I meant. It just takes a lot of energy and then somebody takes "one" thing and the rest of your thoughts might as well not have even been written down. I hate it cause I think Gene works hard on the show. But, the forums have become a running joke. Snide remarks and the same old same old. Still, I keep coming around so I guess I still have hope. But, my points are still out there (as are others here today.)

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

I'm gonna just go ahead and say this. It seems logical to me but maybe I'm wrong. Now, I'm not talking about genuine skeptical people who are honestly searching. I can relate! But, hear me out and then I'll shut up and I'll either continue posting and listening or I won't but that will be a personal decision. Anyway, here goes.

Know why I don't go and join the jimmy randi or other "skeptical" forums? Because I'm logical! By that I mean that I honestly "Don't believe or disbeleive like they do." I never will! EVER! Not because the bible tells me so or science proves it. I just know myself and I am honest enough to know that I can't learn anything from them. Not because they do or do not have anything to teach or show but because my mind is made up! They are wrong! I am right! So, it would be a waste of my time and energy and their time and energy for me to be there. I'd be little more than a "troll."

Yet!, there are folks here who have readily said "I don't beleive in the paranormal" It does not exsist in any form. It is psudeo science at best and fraud at worse! No matter what you say I abslolutely DENY even the possibility that such things as ESP, Reincarnation, Lucid dreaming or even u.f.o.'s have a chance of being real! IT's a fairy tale!

Now, my question to you is : Why are you here? Why waste your time? Your mind is made up. At best you are a misguided evangelical trying to save the ignorant. AT worse you are a troll! Please don't give me the old "I am interested in the cultural value" bullshit! I don't go on santaclaus.com to study something I don't beleive in just for the cultural value.

To be honest this forum should not even be called "para" anything since to state you beleive in the paranormal or even consider it is to risk being labeled a misguided lover of pseudo science at best and a whacked out idiot at worse.

Just my two cents! Sorry if it offends and I know I sometime "shoot from the hip."

No offense at all Tyder! I don't agree with you sometimes, but you seem pretty cool. I just get annoyed when you seem to put a negative spin on atheism - it's no big deal to not believe in a god. You're an atheist too in one way or another. I don't know of anyone that believes in every god ever.
When I joined the forum I was pretty skeptical, but I did believe that there was something possible, perhaps paranormal. I always had an interest, while a the same time being a fan of Carl Sagan, James Randi, and Michael Shermer even though I didn't always agree with them. I thought that there was compelling evidence, with a lot of what people were saying was interesting. I thought that UFOs could be real and I definitely believed in God, ghosts, and the afterlife.
After listening to the Paracast for a while, I became more and more skeptical, and I even stopped listening to all the other paranormal podcasts. I also started listening to a lot more skeptical podcasts an reading more skeptical books. The only one I had read before was Carl Sagan's "A Demon Haunted World." I had never posted on any other forum as much as the Paracast's and I like the community, even though there were opinions I didn't agree with. Go back and look at my posts if you wish - you can see how my thinking changed. I've decided to stay and post because I like the discussion and I do think that reasonable people appreciate being challenged. And I also like the fact that I can help Gene out a little with the moderating duties. Even though I'm sure that Gene doesn't always agree with me, he still thinks enough of me to have allowed me to help with the forum in my own little way. That's another reason why I'm here and I hope to stick around for a while.
I hope that makes sense - my daughter just woke up and I'm on my second week of vacation, so I'm a little out of it!

Angelo

 

[tyder001]

I still don't really see the logic if your sure it's all bunk. But, you are able to civily discuss things and I appreciate that. I honestly have my own reasons for not being an atheist. Do I think of it as a negative? Well, if I'm honest then I have to say yes. Yes I do. But, am I athiestic? Well, I don't beleive in Allah and I don't believe God is an old angry man in the sky. I don't beleive this whole universe is a cosmic coincedence or that all the good and evil that men do simply goes into oblivion like a roach bug when ya squash it. So, I guess I am "atheistic" in some reguards. Anyway, I used to be in a "church." One way in which I "got out." was to read. Also, (beleive it or not) by prayer and meditation. Things just started to look differnently and I no longer could "hang" with the dogma. But, my faith actually grew stronger. Faith that we really are here for a purpose. No god isn't a cosmic santa claus and bad things happen to good and bad people. I would recommend a blog that is written by Michael Prescott. Not because it has "the truth" but because there are discussions on the afterlife and reincarnation and the universe that I find intersting.

I had (stupid,stupid,stupid) a letter from Ian Stevenson back in the day when I was young. Being an inquisitive young man and drifitng from my "religion" I had studied some about reincarnation. Now, I have been called a "witch" and even "demon possessed or at least influenced" so I do understand the negative reaction to religion by some here. Anyway, I have always had certain "memories" that don't conincide with this lifetime. (long story that I won't go into here) But, I also am pretty well educated and I do understand biology (well a little anyway) So, I read about this guy at the Universtiy of Virginia who was doing research. Now, he never (despite some claims to the contrary) said that reincarnation was a fact. He said it was a distinct possibility based on his research. Anyway, I wrote him and told him (ahh youth) how smart I was And wasn't it a "fact" that scientist didn't beleive in god so why was he researching this stuff? I can't remember his answer (Lord, I wish I had kept that letter) but it was very intelligent. It ended with something about "well some do believe and some don't" Although most are not in the fundi camp of particular religions. Anyway, I remain on my journey. Lost my religion but not my hope and not my sense of awe and wonder at the "mind" or the cause of all this. I have become very holistic in my older years. So, when somebody says "that's science" to me "that's God." Just not the crabby old man in the sky ready to blast ya.

 

[Han]

I am struggling with what I want to say, I hope it comes across as I intend it to:
We need sceptics! they are essential to protect us all from lies and liars.
I beleive that most of the time the intention of sceptics is to prevent people from being influenced by untruths, that might otherwise affect their lives adversely e.g ufo Cults like heavans gate.
Having said that, internet forums generaly are not places of sympathy or empathy. I was taught that fighting with those who are weaker than you is not honourable. what I mean is you cant beat somebody into following you, instead you have to convince them that your way is correct. There are many ways to do this but the best way is, in my opinion to "walk in their shoes" for example if somebody has had a paranormal experience it is "real" to them, and me saying that it was not will not change their mind. Actually in some cases it can make people more zealous.

Personally I do not consider my self as a sceptic, but I certainly do not believe everything that I hear, see or read. I always look to the motivations of the person making the claim or case(fame or money for example) and make a judgement on weather I "believe" them or not.

My main problem with the claim that the lunar landings were faked, is that the idea detracts from what human kind has achieved. We are amazing! just look at the Pyramids(egypt) for example to my mind there is no doubt as to their origin E.T did not help the egyptians build them as many people would have us believe, infact it is my opinion that it is a dangerous concept that encourages a feeling of apathy or powerlessness over our own lives for e.g "whats the point of voting it wont change anything".

best wishes