Dear Joe Lieberman

[Tommy Allison]

On average? Maybe an hour or two. It would depend on whether or ot he would need a referral but for something that simple it would probably be done in less time than he spent waiting to get in.



Of the G8 countries, the USA has the highest per capita health care costs. Canada has second highest, roughly half that of America's, so realistically it would have cost him half of whatever he currently pays now in out-of-pocket private costs.

Nice Dodge. How much money do you pay in taxes every year to your government to pay for health care? In America, it's roughly 10 percent. How much do the Canadians pay in taxes? Health Care is not a right. If it were, then food, shelter, and clothing should be a right. Then of course we'd need utilities to be a right. Transportation would be a right. Where would it end? Oh yeah... The lazy would be subsidized, and those who produce would be penalized for being industrious.

WOW... I've just explained to you the principles of Socialism and Communism for you.

I guess it's probably why so many people from Canada, and other countries flock to the United States to get their health care when they can't get it in a timely fashion in their own home countries.

 

[CapnG]

Nice Dodge. How much money do you pay in taxes every year to your government to pay for health care?

Dodge? You asked what it cost and I told you, half whatever you're paying. Maybe it's escaped your notice but money is money, whether it comes out of pocket or out of taxes.

Health Care is not a right.

It is if you decide it is, as a nation, that's how democracy works even in America, I believe they're called "ammendments".

I guess it's probably why so many people from Canada, and other countries flock to the United States to get their health care when they can't get it in a timely fashion in their own home countries.

60,000. That's the number of Americans who come TO Canada each year for health care on average, to say nothing of those who go to other nations.

You can believe every exaggeration and outright lie spewed forth from those in the house and senate (republican AND democrat) about the horrors and evils of "socialized medicine" that their insurance company masters provided for them to read OR you can ask the actual people that live in those countries how it really works.

 

[boulders and sticks]

Please read this Tommy.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq#socialized

Might help clear up a few myths!
Or maybe you would prefer to get your facts from the unbiased sober media coverage in this Country.
I suppose we all have to make our own choices, much like Rush Limbaugh said, "you can either afford a Beach House or a Condo."
Cheers John.

 

[Cailean]

The day after Thanksgiving, I was admitted to the ER. I am a self-payer customer. Meaning, I am uninsured.

I had a kidney stone. I had an X-ray, a Cat Scan, a battery of tests, and of course they gave me stuff for the pain I was in.

I was in the hospital a little under 3 hours. My bill?

$4500.00

This was of course discounted since I was paying out of pocket from $8000.00.

Am I angry for having to pay out that much in costs? A little. Not so much at the hospital, because I know they are a for profit business whose expenditures are no less than 60% administrative. Meaning if you could get rid of most of the non-medical personnel, you'd have affordable health care coverage.

That would be the start. Then you have to have Tort reform to quit turning every malpractice suit into a lottery ticket for the lawyers and of course their clients. You then also get rid of all the perks that Big Medical, and Big Pharma have with the influence their lobbyists have over the folks in Congress and the Senate.

You do away with this idea of Socialism, and Socialized medicine because if you think it's expensive now when it's your money, and the insurance company's money, wait til it's the government. You think your taxes are high now, just wait.

That's the thing that most people don't understand. Taxes affect EVERYONE, and if you rob Peter to pay Paul, who then has to Rob Brian and Steve, and Mickey, you find out really fast that pretty soon Mickey, who probably employs the other 4 guys is now going belly up due to his overhead costs.

For those of you who don't make any money, or make enough money, don't expect those who make more than you to take care of you. That's what churches are for, and if Churches were about charity and helping people like they used to, instead of being corporations immune from taxation, Health Care wouldn't be a problem for ANYONE.

There would be plenty of charity to go around if we taxed every church the same way that all the socialists who want free health care at the expense of others want to tax them.

I'm going to pay my $4500.00 bill, and I'm not going to complain. I'm not rich either, but since I incurred the expense, I've got to be the one to pay it.

With respect, I don't think you understand what socialism is. Healthcare 'free at the point of delivery', is a totally separate topic.

Socialism Definition | Definition of Socialism at Dictionary.com

 

[Tommy Allison]

With respect, I don't think you understand what socialism is. Healthcare 'free at the point of delivery', is a totally separate topic.

Socialism Definition | Definition of Socialism at Dictionary.com

Um... Do you really think I have no idea what Socialism, or Communism is?

Taking the wealth of those who are producers, and giving it to those who do not produce, is socialism. It's also Communism. So, which are you, a Socialist, or a Communist? Own up to your label, because if you endorse either or, you're the people who I rail against. Tyranny comes in many forms. Socialism is what the Nazis practiced. Are you Nazis?

More importantly, Democracy is Mob Rule. In America we're a representational Republic, NOT a fucking democracy. A Democracy is rule by the lowest common denominator. Meaning the least educated morons who want desperately to be coddled from cradle to grave. They walk through life with no ambition to take care of their own needs, and are a parasitic body that thrives on those who actually produce. Just because you're the majority, does NOT make you right. It certainly isn't justice to steal from those who work hard for what they earn so that it can be given to Goldman And Sachs, or Big Pharma.

Now, This nonsense of Free Health Care at the point of Delivery is an outright lie. It costs me, it costs everyone money whether it be taxes, insurance premiums, or in my case straight cash out of pocket. There IS NO FREE HEALTH CARE. It's Not A HUMAN RIGHT. If you have the right to steal money from my wallet, then I have the right to walk up to you, and knock the dogshit out of you, sending you to the hospital so I can feel like I am getting my money's worth.

The people who think that we are all entitled to Free this and Free that, are the people who more often than not are lazy, stupid, uneducated, or willing to be slaves on someone else's plantation. Sorry, but I wasn't born to be ANYONE'S slave. If you want to wear your chains, fine. Don't even think about putting chains around my neck. My ancestors fought a revolution against that sort of crap. We also fought in the Civil War so that people could be free, and yet we have people now wanting to be slaves. How funny is that?

Because that's what we're really talking about here. We're not talking about free health care, we're talking about forcing people like me and others who actually produce, to pay for those who are unwilling to pay their own way. That's called Slavery.

This other nonsense about how so many Americans go to Canada for health care is funny, because in comparison over a million Canadians come here every year for health care, not to mention all of those people from the various other countries come here for it as well.

Keep believing your Socialist Lies. May your chains weigh lightly on you and the clanking not keep you awake at night. Pathetic...

 

[Cailean]

Um... Do you really think I have no idea what Socialism, or Communism is?

Taking the wealth of those who are producers, and giving it to those who do not produce, is socialism. It's also Communism. So, which are you, a Socialist, or a Communist? Own up to your label, because if you endorse either or, you're the people who I rail against. Tyranny comes in many forms. Socialism is what the Nazis practiced. Are you Nazis?

More importantly, Democracy is Mob Rule. In America we're a representational Republic, NOT a fucking democracy. A Democracy is rule by the lowest common denominator. Meaning the least educated morons who want desperately to be coddled from cradle to grave. They walk through life with no ambition to take care of their own needs, and are a parasitic body that thrives on those who actually produce. Just because you're the majority, does NOT make you right. It certainly isn't justice to steal from those who work hard for what they earn so that it can be given to Goldman And Sachs, or Big Pharma.

Now, This nonsense of Free Health Care at the point of Delivery is an outright lie. It costs me, it costs everyone money whether it be taxes, insurance premiums, or in my case straight cash out of pocket. There IS NO FREE HEALTH CARE. It's Not A HUMAN RIGHT. If you have the right to steal money from my wallet, then I have the right to walk up to you, and knock the dogshit out of you, sending you to the hospital so I can feel like I am getting my money's worth.

The people who think that we are all entitled to Free this and Free that, are the people who more often than not are lazy, stupid, uneducated, or willing to be slaves on someone else's plantation. Sorry, but I wasn't born to be ANYONE'S slave. If you want to wear your chains, fine. Don't even think about putting chains around my neck. My ancestors fought a revolution against that sort of crap. We also fought in the Civil War so that people could be free, and yet we have people now wanting to be slaves. How funny is that?

Because that's what we're really talking about here. We're not talking about free health care, we're talking about forcing people like me and others who actually produce, to pay for those who are unwilling to pay their own way. That's called Slavery.

This other nonsense about how so many Americans go to Canada for health care is funny, because in comparison over a million Canadians come here every year for health care, not to mention all of those people from the various other countries come here for it as well.

Keep believing your Socialist Lies. May your chains weigh lightly on you and the clanking not keep you awake at night. Pathetic...

It's not: "Free Health Care at the point of Delivery."

It's: Health care free at the point of delivery.

That might be where your difficulty in understanding comes from.

You don't understand what slavery is either, so read about it here:

Legal Definition of Slavery

 

[Tommy Allison]

It's not: "Free Health Care at the point of Delivery."

It's: Health care free at the point of delivery.

That might be where your difficulty in understanding comes from.

You don't understand what slavery is either, so read about it here:

Legal Definition of Slavery

Let's see. I don't know what Health Care Free At The Point Of Delivery Is.
My difficulty in understanding is what? Because one word is put in front of the other it somehow magically changes the context or meaning?

OH, and I don't know what slavery is either right?

When you work for yourself, only to have your wages taken from you under the threat of duress, punishment, or imprisonment, that's not slavery. Of course not.

You have to be probably the most intellectually dishonest person I've ever met on the internet.

You won't admit you're a socialist. You won't admit you're for slavery. You won't admit that what you advocate is indentured servitude or slavery for those who are unwilling to participate, and yet you have the nerve to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about.

This is what is wrong with America. We allow people to twist the truth of things without penalty. Kind of like how Republicans are fascists, and Liberals are freedom loving Americans, while they systematically put chains on your ankles and around your neck. They curtail your freedom of speech, debate, and of course strangle your prosperity while taxing you to death.

Yep... I have no idea or grasp of reality.

When you get out of college and are actually paying your own way through life, you let me know how it feels to pay tithe and tribute to a government who betrays you, and enslaves you. Until then, you can keep lying about what you are. In my mind, you're no different than the Nazis. Arbeit Macht Frei right? I work because a hundred million losers depend on my taxes to support them. If I don't pay, I go to jail. Yeah, that's real freedom isn't it?

We're all slaves on Massuh's Plantation thanks to people just like you.

 

[Cailean]

Let's see. I don't know what Health Care Free At The Point Of Delivery Is.
My difficulty in understanding is what? Because one word is put in front of the other it somehow magically changes the context or meaning?

OH, and I don't know what slavery is either right?

When you work for yourself, only to have your wages taken from you under the threat of duress, punishment, or imprisonment, that's not slavery. Of course not.

You have to be probably the most intellectually dishonest person I've ever met on the internet.

You won't admit you're a socialist. You won't admit you're for slavery. You won't admit that what you advocate is indentured servitude or slavery for those who are unwilling to participate, and yet you have the nerve to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about.

This is what is wrong with America. We allow people to twist the truth of things without penalty. Kind of like how Republicans are fascists, and Liberals are freedom loving Americans, while they systematically put chains on your ankles and around your neck. They curtail your freedom of speech, debate, and of course strangle your prosperity while taxing you to death.

Yep... I have no idea or grasp of reality.

When you get out of college and are actually paying your own way through life, you let me know how it feels to pay tithe and tribute to a government who betrays you, and enslaves you. Until then, you can keep lying about what you are. In my mind, you're no different than the Nazis. Arbeit Macht Frei right? I work because a hundred million losers depend on my taxes to support them. If I don't pay, I go to jail. Yeah, that's real freedom isn't it?

We're all slaves on Massuh's Plantation thanks to people just like you.

I think that you are so tremendously upset at the world - and particularly your country, because you don't know what you are talking about. You use political terms with no regard for their actual meaning within the English language. You use the words 'Nazi' and 'Socialist' as ways of expressing your feelings towards people you hate - tossing the words around in a casual way. That robs the words of the power of their true meaning. I think you have painted yourself into a corner as regards debate by doing so. By the way, all but two members of my family died in Auschwitz, and they were imprisoned by the comunists after the war. They died when I was very young, because of what they had endured. As a result of this, my feelings towards Nazis and Communists/Socialists are somewhat poisonous. As regards "Arbeit Macht Frei" - I have been to Auschwitz four times - the first time as a very young child. I was so upset by it that I did not speak for six weeks. It is a family grave for the likes me. My beloved uncle died in communist prison for making criticism of the communist party.

 

[Simonemendez]

I wonder if the US should try something new, which is to make different sectors in this country (like separate countries within the nation). I was thinking about when married couples split up, due to "irreconcilable differences." There are some differences that are just plain flat irreconcilable. My worst nightmare-from-hell-come-real, is if Extreme Right Wing Ayan Rand Libertarian Neocon Republicans, and their "I am not my brother's keeper, let them eat cake, lets bring back child labor, debtors prisons and robber barrons" were to become in charge of my life.
I like the socialism of the scandinavian cultures. I would GLADLY give half my $ in taxes for safety nets.

 

[Cailean]

I think that you are so tremendously upset at the world - and particularly your country, because you don't know what you are talking about. You use political terms with no regard for their actual meaning within the English language. You use the words 'Nazi' and 'Socialist' as ways of expressing your feelings towards people you hate - tossing the words around in a casual way. That robs the words of the power of their true meaning. I think you have painted yourself into a corner as regards debate by doing so. By the way, all but two members of my family died in Auschwitz, and they were imprisoned by the comunists after the war. They died when I was very young, because of what they had endured. As a result of this, my feelings towards Nazis and Communists/Socialists are somewhat poisonous. As regards "Arbeit Macht Frei" - I have been to Auschwitz four times - the first time as a very young child. I was so upset by it that I did not speak for six weeks. It is a family grave for the likes me. My beloved uncle died in communist prison for making criticism of the communist party.

And then there was silence...

 

[Tommy Allison]

So, because you lost members of your family to the holocaust, you somehow have some kind of moral superiority over me? You sit there and use every single method used by the Rand corporation to do your best to discredit what I say, but you actually do not refute anything.

You talk about hate? Where in my posts did I say I hated anyone? I hate ignorance. Particularly willful ignorance. Another thing I hate, is intellectual dishonesty, which you seem to have buckets of.

The ONLY reason why I'm responding to this, is because you, and other liars like you try to use events that have nothing to do with an argument to bolster the lie you're trying to pass off as truth.

I don't talk to people who are as pathetic as you are. I don't typically waste my time, but your use of the holocaust is so distasteful to me because it cheapens those lives that actually died. Every time someone invokes how they lost family in the holocaust to bolster their argument, it means they have nothing factual or honest to offer.

As someone who is German by ancestry, who has Jewish relatives, I find your idiocy particularly sickening. May you rot in hell for the lack of integrity you have.

 

[cottonzway]

It's pretty unfair to suggest Tommy is "ducking" that post by suggesting silence hours later. My guess is Tommy has a life outside the Paracast Forums and simply has not been back to his computer yet.

Nevermind, I see he replied while I was making that post.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

Pass the popcorn.. this is getting good. And at Christmas no less.

 

[Tommy Allison]

I put Caliean or whatever their retarded name is on ignore. That way I don't have to see yet another idiotic, intellectually dishonest post from them.

 

[David Biedny]

This has all gone down a bit of a dark path, folks, so I'm going to close the thread.

dB