Debunking Jacques Vallee

[Tony B.]

There is so much BS in this field, it should be called a feedlot. Crammed full of bullshitters with some sensible people holding their noses and rolling their eyes.

I have whole weeks that go by like that.

The regional chapter or whatever the hell they call it of "We're Skeptics And Therefore Cleverer Than You" is having one of their intellectual mutual-back-slapping circle-jerks up in Eugene next month. I'm seriously considering going just for the hell of it, to mess with them. Mua ha ha.

 

[Badseed]

I'm not sure if you even read any of the thread before replying. However, Vallee has caused damage to Ufology by shifting the stance from reality towards moving Ufology into the paranormal, supernatural and occult. You yourself might agree that UFOs belong in the paranormal/supernatural/occult category but such view would be due to the influence of Vallee. There was a time when UFOs were not considered to be part of such category.

The man was pointing out apparent similarities between the behaviors of modern UFO phenomenon and behaviors of historical, folklore and paranormal phenomenon.

You may not like the direction that takes Ufology; but that don't make his work bad, nor does it mean we should ignore his research. Besides, if I'm honest - I have to tell you that I think a shaved monkey could see the similarities Valle points out (so long as the monkey has an open mind).

You are completely twisted around and don't realize it. Valllee PROCLAIMED that our science is no good and can't explain UFOs.

Anti-Science means "against science". Anyone who claims that our science can not explain UFOs and is arguing for something else to replace science is by definition anti-science. Vallee is not on the cutting edge. He, like Keel, is a demonologist.

Again, you twist this mans words.
Valle was proposing a new science to investigate the UFO phenomenon because current sciences are lacking. That's not "anti-science" - it's pro advancement. Could you study nuclear physics with alchemy? could you engineer the construction of a great building without advancing mathematics too geometry?

- now I'm not sure if your doing this on purpose because you so disagree with Valle's proposals that your blind to simple facts, or if you genuinely don't understand Vallee's work?

Maybe you should take a deep breath and regain your intellectual bearing and honesty. Take it easy, Vallee himself has said many times that there is a physical component to the phenomenon. He just finds it unlikely that they are from another galaxy, based on how the phenomenon behaves over time.

PS - I don't know what the UFO phenomenon is (just like Vallee), but I deduce the following (like Vallee):
1. The phenomenon is real.
2. They appear to lie, steal, kidnap, hurt people and perform sadistic experiments that even our current level of technology would make unnecessary for any legitimate scientific purpose (aka. They do it because they want to, or for some other reason).
3. They do things that defy the known laws of physics - Therefore physics alone is not adequate to investigate the phenomenon.
4. They have been around humans for a along time.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Vallee himself has said many times that there is a physical component to the phenomenon.

Part of that will include the military. Listening to audio interviews and reading his fiction [and certain non-fiction books] will give you a window into that reality that he knows, but he rarely speaks much about it due to the attention and controversy it generates, imo. He has definitely been secretive and very cautious about discussing it, and this goes back to his communications with Hynek too.

 

[Badseed]

Part of that will include the military. Listening to audio interviews and reading his fiction [and certain non-fiction books] will give you a window into that reality that he knows, but he rarely speaks much about it due to the attention and controversy it generates, imo. He has definitely been secretive and very cautious about discussing it, and this goes back to his communications with Hynek too.

Yes, I've also heard him say that many UFO incidents around military instillations are "games"; particularly to test security and such. However, I've also heard him say that these types of military "games" can't explain the majority of incidents away from military instillations - and that he himself has seen evidence of the physical nature of the UFO (indentations in the ground, scorched earth etc...).

 

[Waller]

You completely misunderstood this information. Vallee believes the Magonia tale to be of extraterrestrials because he is ignorant of the evolution of the Magonians.

Vallee wrote an entire book about this, you a few posts. I'm having trouble as to who to grant credibility.

Perhaps reading he book would be a good idea, dunno, maybe not. It's free.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/passportmagonia.pdf

They started out as earth bound fertility spirits who were only later set into the sky because of Christianity. The Magonia myth has absolutely nothing to do with extraterrestrials.

Because of Christianity, the spirits were "set into the sky".

That's interesting.

 

[Zebra or the Logos]

Perhaps reading he book would be a good idea, dunno, maybe not. It's free.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/passportmagonia.pdf

Thank you for this. I would be very appreciative of links to free Vallee or Keel books. Thanks to this thread I am more interested than ever to read these guys.

 

[boomerang]

I think Vallee's work is best appreciated as an attempt to integrate or interface aspects of the UFO that seem to lie not only outside our understanding, but beyond the reach of currently available tools and modes of analysis. His work begins where the UFO and related phenomena essentially begin: With perception of the individual mind of powerful but seemingly irrational encounters and their consequent influence on societies. I have never been under the impression that Valle advocates abandoning critical thinking about the UFO by hiding behind the label "paranormal". Although the casual reader could be forgiven for thinking so, as Vallee does have a particular fascination with the emotional and sociological aspects of the UFO.

My two cents worth: His work searches for that elusive interface between consciousness and matter that is only so far approached in the quantum, where the concept of a detached observer is null and void and mind itself is an indispensable part of the "equation". And no--this is not just quantum "woo". Hence, I think, his emphasis on the role of information in nature and its inadequate assimilation in the world of physics.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I think Vallee's work is best appreciated as an attempt to integrate or interface aspects of the UFO that seem to lie not only outside our understanding, but beyond the reach of currently available tools and modes of analysis. His work begins where the UFO and related phenomena essentially begin: With perception of the individual mind of powerful but seemingly irrational encounters and their consequent influence on societies. I have never been under the impression that Valle advocates abandoning critical thinking about the UFO by hiding behind the label "paranormal". Although the casual reader could be forgiven for thinking so, as Vallee does have a particular fascination with the emotional and sociological aspects of the UFO.

My two cents worth: His work searches for that elusive interface between consciousness and matter that is only so far approached in the quantum, where the concept of a detached observer is null and void and mind itself is an indispensable part of the "equation". And no--this is not just quantum "woo". Hence, I think, his emphasis on the role of information in nature and its inadequate assimilation in the world of physics.

Great post Boomerang.

Vallee's luck to go home to France because of the manipulative process to deny him research in the USA about the UFO phenomena changed his interests in the study of UFO's for decades to come. He was already becoming aware of the military's dangerous and manipulative component to the UFO phenomena, and he learned quite a bit more about that throughout the decades that followed after Hynek. But his understanding that there is a historical component to the UFO cloaked in the language and understanding and beliefs tied to each specific time period throughout history, is truly brilliant and insightful and controversial to the ET-UFO nuts & bolts believers.

He is, of course, colored by his own interests in information theories and has tried to apply it to the UFO as you suggest Boomerang. He is also deeply interested and captivated by the interview process to eyewitnesses to such phenomena, so much so, that he will follow some "experiencers" over years and decades of communications in person or otherwise. This is fantastic, imo.

There is only so much time in life available to study such things, but I propose Vallee has two critical blind spots of missing information that has been available all along. Simply, it is the witness. Interviewing is not nearly enough, not even close, when there is very impressive mind and brain research tools available that can dig into the psychology of such experiences, and that includes the EXTREMELY important various kinds of brain scanning equipment that is available now to reveal as never before possible the mind-brain connections and interactions. ALSO, Valle is missing all the mind chemistry research that could be done such as the UFO and related experiences often seen with DMT -a natural substance found in our brains and is deeply connected to other biological processes throughout nature. And, that is just the extreme beginning of our understanding about the electrical chemistry within our brains, and there is plenty of other natural brain chemicals or synthesized drugs that alter our experience with reality.

Until we in the UFO community learn more about such subjects WE ARE TOTALLY BLIND ABOUT THE UFO PHENOMENA, PERIOD. THIS IS A FACT. IMO.

So, Vallee can not come close to finding the truth about this phenomena, because he has no way to be an expert within these fields I mention above nor have I seen him communicate much interest or importance to my critique about what he is missing.

Don't get me wrong. I deeply respect and think Vallee still has much to offer, and I hope he continues to focus on his UFO interests. He can still learn and communicate to us much more about what he is doing and already knows. But Vallee's knowledge is only a small piece to this puzzle, when the frontier of the UFO Mind is still wide-open for understanding and research.

Hahaha... and we debate Roswell Slides and ET This and ET That. The frigging UFO's and ET's are ALWAYS inside our minds. We can not escape that fact, but WHY do we know next to nothing about that FACT?

Hahahah... ALSO, we can never seem to catch an ET or a UFO out there. I wonder why? Certainly with almost 7 billion people on Earth the military can not keep all that evidence hidden in their secret archives. But all we get is fraud and rare witness accounts that can NOT be proven?

Even the trace evidence that Vallee has mentioned is still found on Earth. Every material artifact is of Earth origin.

 

[Robert Baird]

Like a good story - here is one, for those who KNOW ET has been here. Tom Cruise and John Travolta should offer us their movie skills to tell a little truth - methinks.

"As told by Frater Robert Anton Wilson; Holy Discordian, OTO Initiate and CAW Water Brother in his Outstanding Masterpiece of Speculative Illumination "Cosmic Trigger." Recalling Crowleymas (October 12) 1974, Brother Wilson hath eloquently stated:
...And then Jacques Vallee arrived.

I had wanted to talk to Doctor Vallee for several months now and I immediately kidnapped him into a room which the other party- goers were not informed about. On the way, we spotted Hymenaeus Alpha (Grady McMurty), Caliph of the Ordo Templi Orientis, and his wife, Phylis.

The Skeptic had heard Jacques Vallee talk at a conference on Science and Spirit, sponsored by the Theosophical Society, earlier in the year. He had taken a new approach to the UFO mystery and was systematically feeding all the reports of extraterrestrial contacts into a giant computer. The computer was programmed to look for various possible repeated patterns. Jacques said that the evidence emerging suggested to him that the UFOs weren't extraterrestrial at all, but that they seemed to be intelligent systems intent on convincing us they were extraterrestrial. [Indeed, even as our Dear Brother Terence McKenna hath said, "We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extraterrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us." -B:.B:.]

Now the Skeptic started pumping Jacques about his evidence that they weren't extraterrestrial. He started to explain that, analyzing the reports chronologically, it appeared that They (whoever or whatever they are) always strive to give the impression that they are something the society they are visiting can understand. In medieval sightings, he said, they called themselves angels; in the great 1902 flap in several states, one of the craft spoke to a West Virginia farmer and said they were an airship invented and flown from Kansas; in 1940s-1950s sightings, they often said they were from Venus; since Venus has been examined and seems incapable of supporting life, they now say they are from another star-system in this galaxy.

"Where do you think they come from?" I asked.

Doctor Vallee gave the Gallic form of the classic scientific Not- Speculating-Beyond-The-Data head-shake. "I can theorize, and theorize, endlessly," he said, "but is it not better to just study the data more deeply and look for clues?"

"You must have some personal hunch," I insisted.

He gave in gracefully. "They relate to space-time in ways for which we have, at present, no concepts," he said. "They cannot explain to us because we are not ready to understand."

I asked Grady McMurty if Aleister Crowley had ever said anything to him implying the extraterrestrial theory which Kenneth Grant, Outer Head of another Ordo Templi Orientis, implies in his accounts of Crowley's contacts with Higher Intelligences.

"Some of the things Aleister said to me," Grady replied carefully, "could be interpreted as hints pointing that way." He went on to quote Crowley's aphorisms about various of the standard entities contacted by Magick. The Abramelin spirits, for instance, need to be watched carefully. "They bite," Aleister explained in his best deadpan am-I-kidding-or-not? style. The Enochian "angels," on the other hand, don't always have to be summoned. "When you're ready, they come for you," Aleister said flatly.

(The Enochian entities were first contacted by Dr. John Dee in the early 17th Century. Dr. Dee, court astrologer to Queen Elizabeth and also an important mathematician, has been controversial from his own time to ours, some writers regarding him as a genius of the first rank and others as a clever lunatic. According to two interesting books, "The World Stage" and "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment," both by a most scrupulous historian, Dr. Francis Yates, Dee was almost certainly a prime mover in the "Illuminati" and "Rosicrucian Brotherhoods" of that time, which played a central role in the birth of modem science. The alleged UFOnaut from Uranus which communicated with the two Naval Intelligence officers gave a name, AFFA, which is a word in the "angelic" language used by the entities Dee contacted. It means Nothing. George Hunt Williamson also got some words in "angelic" from his Space Brothers, remember.)

"The outstanding quality of UFO contactees," Jacques Vallee said at this point, "was incoherence. I now have grave reservations about all physical details they supply," he said."

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/crowleyalienlam.html

"But the UFO phenomenon simply does not behave like extraterrestrial visitors. It actually molds itself in order to fit a given culture."
- John Ankerberg, The Facts on UFOs and Other Supernatural Phenomena, p. 10
"Human beings are under the control of a strange force that bends them in absurd ways, forcing them to play a role in a bizarre game of deception."
- Dr. Jacques Vallee, Messengers of Deception, p. 20

"We are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon which is largely indigenous to planet earth."
- Brad Steiger, [cited in] Blue Book Files Released in Canadian UFO Report, Vol. 4, No. 4, 1977, p. 20

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/quotes.html

 

[Robert Baird]

archived as http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/PX_05.doc [pdf]

more of the Philadelphia Experiment is at http://www.stealthskater.com/PX.htm

note: because important websites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was archived from
http://www.contentmart.com/ContentMa...=327&content=1 April 10, 2007. This is NOT an attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned website. Indeed, the reader should only read this back-up copy if the updated original cannot be found at the original author's site.

"Tom Cruise Is Right?"
by Robert Bruce Baird

I had probably heard about 'the Hangar' on Wright-Patterson AFB where President Nixon was refused entry even before I arrived in Dayton. But being a skeptic, I figured it was too fantastic and I don’t fully believe anything anyway. I still am not sure that the UFO occurrences are as much to do with alien species as they are people who came from Earth. [StealthSkater note: the Dan Burisch saga suggests that what we consider as "aliens" are what we become in the future. And that somehow, this future species is traveling back in time to prevent timeline damage done => doc pdf URL ]

A scientist who had worked at Wright-Pat later went public and was plausibly denied in the official manner. Recently I saw a credible woman on TV who had worked there and had direct access to good evidence. After over 40 years in the Canadian Militia and time with the New York Guard my brother Maj. R.J. Baird, C.D., P. Eng., C.I.M., etc. was initiated into a secret police organization/club that has members of most top-secret alphabet soup agencies. At Wright-Pat, he was allowed one question. His question related to the contents of 'the Hangar'. The response was: "We think you already know."

The Congressional panels are still up in the air over what happened at Roswell and Jimmy Carter (who has publicly said he witnessed a UFO) said he would re-open the files. But once in office, he didn’t succeed in getting them opened. If you were to know what radiosondes really were doing, you might think aliens were the better option. In order to fairly treat the subject, it requires at least an article of its own. But let me briefly state that Wilhelm Reich is vital to the matter. His "orgone energy" is like the Newtonian cosmic ether. He was a student of Sigmund Freud just like Silberer who wrote a book on alchemic symbols even before Carl Jung. His technology and person were abused by Federal Agents who later used his work in the radiosondes. They were able to change the weather just like the Druids. [StealthSkater note: Reich's radiosonde technology was allegedly combined with results from the Philadelphia Experiment that evolved into the "Montauk Project" where accidental timeline manipulations (sometimes called "time travel") were done => doc pdf URL ]

But there is good evidence of more than radiosondes from Roswell. My second wife’s uncle flew for the DEA after Vietnam. He said he knew the pilot who flew the remains of Roswell from Atlanta to Wright-Pat. We all lived in Lost Wages (Sin City, etc.) and knew people who worked at the "non-existent" Groom Lake AFB or had seen Lazar on Showtime’s TV special. So nothing would surprise any of us. The symbols of the Government inspire awe in those who "believe". But the mathematical realities of life existent throughout the Universe impress me more.

Christ Consciousness and the Desert in Harmony:

Norm Paulsen is one of your crazy Californians who seem most sane to me. He wrote the book Christ Consciousness first published in 1980 under the name Sunburst: Return of the Ancients.

“’My Lord! There it is, finally. Wake up, everybody!’ I yelled. There’s a ship right on the rock!’

I could hear a heavy pulsating hum echo off the rocky cliffs and fill the immediate area with sound. {Harmonics is a vital science seldom taken as seriously as it should be. It can explain much about the inter-relationship of forces in the field of Physics as one might imagine given that String Theory says all energy is formed from one-dimensional harmonic forces.} I yelled again at Boone but received no response. I continued yelling as loud as I could hoping someone would hear me.

That was a mistake! An incredibly bright and piercing light struck me full in the face. It emanated from the side of the brilliantly-lit hull which I could now see very clearly. That was it! The next thing I became aware of was the Sun shining in my face as it rose in the east across the desert. Looking down, I saw that I was half out of my sleeping bag. Then I began to remember what had happened. The intelligence guiding the vehicle evidently did not want to be seen by everyone. I had been put to sleep right in the middle of trying to get out of my sleeping bag.

I looked over to Daniel. ‘Hey, Boone, did you see it? Were you able to see that ship last night?’

‘No, Brother. I heard you yelling. But when I looked up, nothing was there. I remember hearing a pulsating roar, though.’”

Bruce Cathie is a good source for grasping the universal harmonic of light which is part of the basic fabric of our consciousness. That is why the highest illumination and NDEs are often accompanied by white light and how things travel at faster than light speed through what is naively called ESP. Near Minneola Rd. between Baker and Barstow, there are some mountains that became my friends as I learned about the ‘amber rays’ that connect all energy from Castaneda and was involved with an adept who developed a mountain climbing sutra.

The center of the Universe as we can visualize the known or non-parallel dimensions aside from the warp and woof of matter to anti-matter (both of which can co-exist) despite the once considered impossibility of this reality. I personally can conceive there have been adepts like Mahiri Lahasi or Vivekananda who did what the earlier Druids did. My above mentioned adept took me to one of the dimensions she went to when she dematerialized. The scientists say "dark energy" and "dark matter" forms 95% of the Universe whereas the Eastern mystics might call it "shakti" and it is full of "siddhis" or power.

Minneola Rd. Meeting With a Back Engineer:

Despite the high standing of Louis Leakey, he was savaged and ridiculed as he went to his grave maintaining the truth he found here. Geologist Virginia Steen-McIntyre can confirm crucifixions still occur as she provided ample and archaeologically sound evidence of 250,000 year old people in Hueyatlaco, Mexico. No wonder the Kennewick Man site was covered over and destroyed while "60 Minutes" couldn’t find out who authorized the deed that took place the day before a congressional bill was to take effect.

There is a good chance that humans colonized space many eons ago. The timeline of technological development that we have been taught since the days of the "Flat Earth" is absolutely false. How could the Pyramid at Giza be at the center of the Earth’s land mass if world travel wasn’t very accurate? The Hadji Ahmed map confirms what the Ark of the Covenant really was used for. It was an arc transmitter.

 

[Robert Baird]

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” Tesla.

So true! But as to cult people needing de-programming I ask you to ask your friends if all of society is a cult that needs de-programming even more than (Dare I say it?) Scientology. Read some of this stuff first though. Here is a site promoting Preston Nichols which might even be done by him or his semi-fraudulent (according to Jesse Ventura recently) gang. It includes a book I wrote, and addresses facts Jesse was not looking for that Preston is correctly talking about. Same with Swerdlow - attunement and mind control are a large part of what Tesla Tech is now being used for - see threads on Omega Stations, Frequency Fence and HAARP, etc.. Jesse needs a real researcher like me - but if truth ever appeared on his show he might gain traction in the minds of people. Imagine if people actually started learning?

https://concen.org/content/preston-n...-research-pack

If you have read any posts of mine about Ogham and the Pentagon Dodecahedron you are getting to 'glimpse the waves of the marvellous' to quote a head man of the Priory named Hugo. You are seeing why I diss the current revivalist Druids and their simple ego and power games. You are getting to see what a Baird is - and which I have learned only in the last 25 years, despite having that family name. I sometimes know there is genetic info transfer going on - and I wonder if our Akashic or Ein Sof human concepts and ET contacts are this genetic info transference that also plays out through the ether in crop circles with all those Druidic math designs.

Here is a thought I would love to discuss with Bucky and other members of the Institute of Advanced study at both Princeton (Godel and Einstein) and Dublin (Wigner et. al) where my Ogham mentor said Boulean math was given by Druid science. And you can be absolutely certain that the Druids understood the Earth Energy Grid more than any scientist today. It has one charge and the Ether has another as Tesla used to develop Wardenclyff and wireless energy transmission. One charge is the 'I' and the other charge is the 'O' in your bits of computer data from Boule. Read up on my posts covering I O Torus as well as Ogham. Believe me or not, the Druid science went past mere fortune and divination such as Ogham does (Tao Te Ching and Runic derivatives) - to actual manifestation or what Bucky called 'creative realization'.

But the major power source Tesla was working on is a Unified Force field leading to dimensionsal energy tap-ins which he said caused him to see past, and future simultaneously. In my book on him I explain his work on the attention point to overcome deep psychological and even matter dysfunction. Tesla used the Earth Grid and air or ether forces - he used what works and did not abide stupid academic me-too think. The possibility of energy sources in ancient times that no historian working for the paradigm will discuss grows more realistic every day. Dr. Don Robins described megaliths as macrochips - he was a very accomplished person in archaeology whose inventions bring us better means to date artifacts and many other things. The Dragon Project researchers included Cambridge mathematicians using magnetometers. It is near to certain that attunement sciences and metaphysics was more developed before the Carolina Bays event destroyed most cities and killed most humans. Today you will hear scientists working on Gravitational Wave research say metaphysics is more real than old physics. The pentagon dodecahedron allowed major energy flows through the megaliths - it had twelve major center points and our Mr. Brown has calculated three of them. Ivan Sanderson added more and I think Mt. Yamato or another part of the Antarctic is one as well. Everyone agrees (most real thinkers) that the Great Pyramid was central to it but it was built long after the people with the real knowledge had used smaller structures there to affect many things including advanced psychic ability.

In the research on Pine Gap we have submarines with antennae being powered at a great distance - VRIL antennae receiving power from the Megalithic power plant could do likewise. Indeed we have a modern day effort to use the Earth Energy Grid. Tesla probably would roll over in his grave. The Pentagon dodecahedron and Earth Energy Grid is now a lot more powerful. Imagine an antennae flexing with nanotubes and superconductive material that is insulated, reaching into a black hole or other dimension to bring back energy to travel beyond warp speed.

http://www.millennium-ark.net/stans....ne_Gap_CC.html

 

[Robert Baird]

The possibility of sentient beings on earlier solar systems said to be many billions of years older than our own, developing travel and transposition of some teleportational nature seems one of the most stable and down to earth possibilities when we consider these spheres. Other ideas flit through our mind as we imagineer the conscious wisdom of refined metallurgical objects beyond mere silica microchips and revisit what Dr Robins termed the megaliths - macrochips. What is the operating system they are part and parcel of? Is the old Gaian theory of the earth and the Earth Energy Grid far removed from a universal entity that would have implants in the earth to form greater contact? The manganese nodules all over one part of the ocean occur naturally but what difference does that make when one is thinking about evolving layers of consciously connected matter guided by dimensional force entities of non-corporeal nature? That kind of thought might lead us to worship the Ka'aba with a lot more validity.

The spheres could also be put there to influence stability and join with other earth energy forces to actuate specific occurrences we are only remotely able to understand. It could be from our own future or from an earlier adept civilization whose attunement was collectively superior to what exists today. This kind of thought is more 'far-out' than David M. Jacobs, Ph. D. and the alien abduction agenda contemplated in his books Secret Life and The Threat. His associate professorship in history at Temple University makes one feel good about the possible future of free-thought in America. What sense does it make in one's day to day life to think about such wild imagineering? Well, that IS where the rubber hits the road as they say; and we humbly suggest that even in this life while physically manifest in sensual containers with high level focus on the joy these senses bring - we are part of the evolving purpose and what has been called God's greater purpose. We also suggest the way of knowledge and positive application of the results of thinking does not advantage one if they turn away from the facts. These spheres are facts and they can not have designs (or the vase from 300,000,000 years ago) of this complexity and be so metallurgically advanced if we take only our present concept of nature into account.

Is the flexible metal that can't be cut with welder's torches which is shown by the son of the Roswell whistle-blower drawn from the same manufacture process? A personal friend of mine says he knows a chemist/metallurgical researcher who was sent such material from the States to a place just east of Oshawa/Toronto. They could conceive no earthly explanation for it. Now which of these 'possibilities' do you wish to contemplate? The alien one has abductee experiences and hybrid genetics that include clearly extraterrestrial conclusions. The prior earth civilization with advanced technology and attunements beyond language and its limits, means matter can be sent back through time. When NEC Labs at Princeton observed 300X light speed in Cesium, the argument can still be made that time travel is not possible for complex systems that are living. Cesium is the most accurate means of tracing time in clocks in a great improvement over quartz which we have seen in the piezo-electric description of Dr Robins. Each different crystalline structure is an expression of the forming building blocks and their consciousnesses.


Nanotubes are part of a creative process that harmonizes to the rhythm of something we may soon know. There are ways to imagine the spheres could have been created by advanced human or other earth sentient beings in conjunction with the spirit and wisdom of the shamanic relationship in vortexes and wisdom thereof. The prevalence of spheres in this one area may be in response to a forceful build-up of whatever forms the manganese nodules or because of the same forces or intelligence from other parts of the universe such as whatever causes the meteors to collect in amazing numbers near Mt. Yamato in Antarctica.

In attempting to come up with a way to express or communicate the places where the mind goes in integrating these truly mysterious things we are asking the reader to endure another German Nazi analogy on the slippery slope of ethics and the relative nature of morality. We all know the Nazis were heavy into esoterics and ancient civilization from the Spielberg trilogy but it was much more than just a hobby or some weird obsession. In fact you could say it was being done by others in secret bases; but we can't be sure of a great deal of these things because of the secrecy surrounding some weapons systems that even long after they are no longer in use aren't talked about. It is almost certain that Hitler and his cronies or handlers like General Hausohofer and Himmler were well aware of the weapons systems described in the Mahábhárata. They seem to have attempted to make most of them become real and their scientists were helpful to the development of these things after the war. Some of the things were already on the drawing boards and tested. Were they also in a position to know about the Foo Fighters?

"On the night of 15 November 1944 the team of Elmore and Mapes again recorded a first - a nighttime visual confirmation on a night flying Me163. Lt. Mapes remembers it well:

'We were flying what was known as a "free-lance" intruder mission around Bonn, Germany. It was around 2300 hours before we hit our area. The overcast was at 4000 ft. with a beautiful moonlit clear sky above. Suddenly, I picked up a "bogey" on my radar that was high above us and travelling at a terrific speed. Just as it was about to pass over us, Elmore put us into a hard 180 degree turn. I could not find it on the radar and looked out above us. The sight was unbelievable! It appeared to be shaped like a wedge of pie with a long plume of flame coming from its rear end.

I kept watching him and calling out where he was over the intercom. He appeared to be in a tight circle directly above us. About the time that Elmore got a visual, the flame died down to a glow and it started to spiral down on us. I could see intermittent bursts of fire from the nose, and knew it was cannon or machine gun fire. I relayed this on and we began taking violent evasive action. Suddenly, this strange aircraft broke off and went into a vertical climb, with a long plume of flame shooting out the rear end. After several manoeuvres like this, we both agreed it was the new German Me 163 rocket plane. We never could get in a position to fire on it because of its tight spiralling and rapid climbs. Finally, it left the area and we never saw it again. Although we never fired a shot at it, it was a very memorable mission!'" (18)

John von Neumann may not have known why all his teachers encouraged him to follow so many unconventional paths and Hitler may have a greater enduring part to play in the intergalactic 'seeding' of space and other advanced cloaking and cloning devices than even the Sanskrit texts contemplate. Please check into the von Neumann probes taking genetic material to other galactic planets at our present time. Could the 'spheres' have encoded or time release information? It can seem almost fun and beyond science fiction to go too far down this road. What is too far? We hope you'll decide for yourself and not cater to the conventional or societal norm like the good citizens of Germany did when they heard rumors about the 'fun' going on with Jews in concentration camps.



EDGAR MITCHELL: - The Noetic Sciences people are lucky to have this former astronaut (Astronaut Michael Collins similarly deals in spiritual truth from history) as part of their team of scientists. They have seminars that that cover much of the kind of thing that the future must bring into being our reality. Here is the intro to one of his workshops:

"For almost 400 years, western civilization has been structured around the Cartesian conclusion that body and mind belong to separate realms of existence. But Descartes was wrong; they are but two faces of an intelligent, creative, self-organizing, learning, trial and error, interactive, participatory, evolving universe. This Dyadic model proposes that existence and the ability to know (consciousness) both arise from the same concept - energy - an energy that contains the seeds of knowing. Non-local information about the physical universe provides the missing link between objective science and subjective experience, including the mystical experience. We will explore these concepts with ample time for questions and discussion.

Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut - sixth man to walk on the moon (1971), Founder, Institute of Noetic Sciences (1973), Author of Psychic Exploration and The Way of The Explorer. A pioneer in efforts to expand science toward understanding consciousness and inner experience. From the vicinity of the Moon, Ed Mitchell viewed planet Earth among the separate galaxies, the stars and planets, and had a transformative experience that changed his life. He left his job as a naval officer and astronaut, founded IONS {The institute of Noetic Sciences from which this excerpt is taken. I highly recommend them and a visit to their web site for starters.}, and began a rigorous exploration of links between inner and outer journeys, between science and spirituality."

He is a honorary member of the Club of Budapest and I will list some of the names including his here at this point, but I want you to ask yourself whether Von Neumann, Wigner, St. Germain and others from that region are somehow esoterically connected. It seems to be a hotbed of interesting things and people going along with Rudolf I's Prague and Vienna. Every one of these people could be highlighted in this book and I would have to say they are all excellent role models. The list comes from [http://www.planetaryvision.net/page21.html].

 

[Robert Baird]

But that link is no longer working so you can go direct through this link perhaps. There are so many great people in this Club that you might hope it will join with other Clubs like Rome and Athens someday.
http://www.clubofbudapest.org/clubof.../index.php/en/


http://www.popsci.com/have-we-found-alien-life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W194GQ6fHI

When a champion of UFO and alien intervention who is a scientist sees the light and refutes himself does that mean a lot? It should. And my investigation of demons and archetypes converges with his new theories.

""Much to the consternation of the "scientific ufologists" who had seen him as one of their champions, Vallee now seemed to be backing away from the extraterrestrial hypotheses and advancing the radical view that UFOs are paranormal in nature and a modern space age manifestation of a phenomenon which assumes different guises in different historical contexts.

"When the underlying archetypes are extracted," he wrote, "the saucer myth is seen to coincide to a remarkable degree with the fairy-faith of Celtic countries … religious miracles… and the widespread belief among all peoples concerning entities whose physical and psychological descriptions place them in the same category as the present-day ufonauts."

In The Invisible College (E.P. Dutton, 1975) Vallee posits the idea of a "control system." UFOs and related phenomena are "the means through which man's concepts are being rearranged." Their ultimate source may be unknowable, at least at this stage of human development; what we do know, according to Vallee, is that they are presenting us with continually recurring "absurd" messages and appearances which defy rational analysis but which nonetheless address human beings on the level of myth and imagination.

"When I speak of a control system for planet earth," he says, " I do not want my words to be misunderstood: I do not mean that some higher order of beings has locked us inside the constraints of a space-bound jail, closely monitored by psychic entities we might call angels or demons. I do not propose to redefine God. What I do mean is that mythology rules at a level of our social reality over which normal political and intellectual action has no power….""

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc608.htm

 

[DissectionStalker]

Hi Baird, 3 of your 5 posts in succession above seem to have nothing directly to do with Vallee and this thread topic. I find it too confusing to read so much off-topic posts that I'd rather you post in your own thread topics about such things. These are long posts filled with a lot of density that is too much to process here that is off-topic. IMO. Thanks for your consideration.

 

[Robert Baird]

Hi Baird, 3 of your 5 posts in succession above seem to have nothing directly to do with Vallee and this thread topic. I find it too confusing to read so much off-topic posts that I'd rather you post in your own thread topics about such things. These are long posts filled with a lot of density that is too much to process here that is off-topic. IMO. Thanks for your consideration.

Dear Stalker

It certainly could be true that two posts address Druidic and historical roots of the hallucinatory or archetypical origins. It could be said that Vallee was not fully aware of what I said in those posts, but the Magonia comments and his own comments that were brought about by a computer analysis are in line with what caused him to change from a UFO supporter to a true thinker. As Badseed said above -"The man was pointing out apparent similarities between the behaviors of modern UFO phenomenon and behaviors of historical, folklore and paranormal phenomenon.

You may not like the direction that takes Ufology; but that don't make his work bad, nor does it mean we should ignore his research. Besides, if I'm honest - I have to tell you that I think a shaved monkey could see the similarities Valle points out (so long as the monkey has an open mind)"

Then there is Edgar Mitchell and his valuable inner space group. For me his opinion was hard to overcome as I wrestled with the existence of UFOs and Alien Intervention. I think any reader or interested party would want to know where I am coming from, and especially why he supports a greater connection than I or Vallee do. I don't go as far as Badseed does when he says "a shaved monkey could see the similarities Vallee points out". But I liked his point of view.

As to your difficulty reading dense material with all the quotes from highly respected or good research people - what can I say? I don't really like to say something five or ten times over and get questioned by shaved monkeys without an open-mind. I prefer to place all relevant facts together so a person responding has an opportunity to make a cogent analysis and reply accordingly.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Is the flexible metal that can't be cut with welder's torches which is shown by the son of the Roswell whistle-blower drawn from the same manufacture process? A personal friend of mine says he knows a chemist/metallurgical researcher who was sent such material from the States to a place just east of Oshawa/Toronto. They could conceive no earthly explanation for it. Now which of these 'possibilities' do you wish to contemplate?

Having researched the BS relating to Skinwalker Ranch and the recent Roswell Slides... here we go again...

Please provide proof of the above, otherwise you're just spreading rumors and "the gobsmack" to attract attention for the wow factor; it's nothing more but an alien and/or time warp scenario distraction and belief system aka religion.

 

[Robert Baird]

Please provide proof of the above, otherwise you're just spreading rumors and "the gobsmack" to attract attention for the wow factor; it's nothing more but an alien and/or time warp scenario distraction and belief system aka religion.

I agree but I do put the facts I am aware of out there, and I did say it was just hearsay. However, it is more than just hearsay because I was in the military and my Regiment oversaw Camp X near the Trenton AFB somewhat. But to draw all the connections to John Bull at Trenton starting HARP and a MI5 overseer who was a Canadian Army Colonel my brother met and told what I thought Bull was doing, as well as having a partner who introduced me to someone I now think was an elite Camp X officer is more than one book could cover. This personal friend I mention is from one of Canada's wealthiest families who included my lawyer. The partner is mentioned in another thread here and my article on Mind-Machine Interfacing which was once picked up on a Washington Post blog. I also mention a DEA pilot who my second wife was related to who knew the pilot who flew remains of Roswell from Atlanta to Wright-Pat (above). I think those remains are now north of Vegas.

And you might find a lot more hearsay in this comment. I knew a teacher in Vegas who I spent a lot of time gambling with near my home. He said a former Nellis/Area 51 employee had photos he was showing at schools throughout Clark County. Those photos included wrecked aircraft and whole aircraft probably in S-4 but in two separate areas. I later met a top executive in the Clark County school system, and discussed many things with including this. Many people in Vegas (most) know Lazar was set up and almost killed, we all know he described the cafeteria there, and that the official denials of his being there are lies.

Despite all of that - I still think those flexible materials come from the weather balloons and I forget the details but I traced the manufacture to a plant in Jersey - not the Pleiades or wherever L. Ron currently resides if he is not reborn as the Scientologists are now saying. I also think the aircraft are US black ops projects, not alien. I have a lot more research covering all the very best from Ufology, and I still believe it is all black ops even back to Vimanas. The families who maintain the alien fictions they wrote into the Bible are well known to me. I have written so many books on them either directly or tangentially it is hard to remember how many. Have I posted my articles on Aliens, Illuminati and Ignorance here yet? That thread is what you asked me to do this morning. If I have not done that here, I will presently.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Please provide proof of the above, otherwise you're just spreading rumors and "the gobsmack" to attract attention for the wow factor; it's nothing more but an alien and/or time warp scenario distraction and belief system aka religion.

I agree but I do put the facts I am aware of out there, and I did say it was just hearsay. However, it is more than just hearsay because I was in the military and my Regiment oversaw Camp X near the Trenton AFB somewhat. But to draw all the connections to John Bull at Trenton starting HARP and a MI5 overseer who was a Canadian Army Colonel my brother met and told what I thought Bull was doing, as well as having a partner who introduced me to someone I now think was an elite Camp X officer is more than one book could cover. This personal friend I mention is from one of Canada's wealthiest families who included my lawyer. The partner is mentioned in another thread here and my article on Mind-Machine Interfacing which was once picked up on a Washington Post blog. I also mention a DEA pilot who my second wife was related to who knew the pilot who flew remains of Roswell from Atlanta to Wright-Pat (above). I think those remains are now north of Vegas.

And you might find a lot more hearsay in this comment. I knew a teacher in Vegas who I spent a lot of time gambling with near my home. He said a former Nellis/Area 51 employee had photos he was showing at schools throughout Clark County. Those photos included wrecked aircraft and whole aircraft probably in S-4 but in two separate areas. I later met a top executive in the Clark County school system, and discussed many things with including this. Many people in Vegas (most) know Lazar was set up and almost killed, we all know he described the cafeteria there, and that the official denials of his being there are lies.

Despite all of that - I still think those flexible materials come from the weather balloons and I forget the details but I traced the manufacture to a plant in Jersey - not the Pleiades or wherever L. Ron currently resides if he is not reborn as the Scientologists are now saying. I also think the aircraft are US black ops projects, not alien. I have a lot more research covering all the very best from Ufology, and I still believe it is all black ops even back to Vimanas. The families who maintain the alien fictions they wrote into the Bible are well known to me. I have written so many books on them either directly or tangentially it is hard to remember how many. Have I posted my articles on Aliens, Illuminati and Ignorance here yet? That thread is what you asked me to do this morning. If I have not done that here, I will presently.

I would like to read a separate thread topic about this torch-proof material and all the other material connections, plus hearsay, etc. leading to the black ops projects, because you and I are possibly brothers in spirit on these matters.

When I heard that story about a torch not being able to cut it, I immediately thought I wonder if a good pair of scissors or a sharp razor blade might just do the trickster trick.

I do believe Lazar was at Los Alamos, and John Lear has been a trouble maker trying to expose some secret craft mixed in with a heavy dose of crazy talk. Both Lear and Lazar's association certainly leads me to believe they would be targets for disinformation. If Lazar was involved in classified projects out there, then he would be screwed as soon as it was found out he was communicating with Lear, imo.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Stalker

I have been at this for about six hours this morning. I just got the thread up which integrates a lot of this in a separate thread - which goes into a lot more about other fantasies religious and Illuminized. I have so much more to add to these things but I do not keep my books on a computer anymore as they would fill my laptop and make it so slow if useful in any way. I think I covered the Jersey factory research origin of the flexible metal (That included mylar if I recall.) in my book addressing the Preston Nichols and Montauk project - called Chichen Itza: - TIME.

You ask: "When I heard that story about a torch not being able to cut it, I immediately thought I wonder if a good pair of scissors or a sharp razor blade might just do the trickster trick."

I cannot say I will be able to get what you want together on that little detail, but I am near to certain you are correct. Certainly graphene would be used today but in what proportions I do not know. I believe it did not exist when the balloons were built - but in these black ops matters I have found many things have been around long before they become public - for Millennia sometimes.

I know if you and I had this discourse a decade ago - my mind would have far more accurate recall. There are things poking out of my memory as I write which annoy and frustrate me to remember. I still have been accused of having near perfect recall even in the last few months; but it was all just hard work or elbow grease. I might have an IQ of 134 but my father was at 199 on the army test. You can imagine growing up competing with a person who read the Encyclopedia Britannica from A-Z, the collected works of many greats including Shaw and Shak-his-spear (Yes, that was a correct spelling when he lived) and was getting the librarian to bring in specific books.

 

[Burnt State]

Just some other Vallee considerations and things I hadn't heard before. This video discusses a lot of interesting features of disbelief on his part, or how he politely dismisses some of the fringe aspects of ufology (abductions/contactees, alien structures on the moon and the closing to the COMETA report) with his, "I just don't understand that." He is also often heard to remark, "This material is incomprehensible." I think that's a very nice way of saying it's all senseless or that no one can make any sense out of it because there is no basis in fact for the statements.

I think these are interestingly examined in this video specifically with regards to alien bases on the moon, which has been thoroughly mapped by people he knows so it makes not sense to him. Similarly, at the end of the COMETA report there is an unidentified and unproven statement that the US has alien hardware from Roswell but there is no proof for such things, yet it's still included in this formal report - another senseless moment for an otherwise interesting piece of writing.