December 7, 2014 — Peter Robbins

[Burnt State]

That's for sure.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

That's for sure.

An example of ad-hoc peer review of sorts. Well, it's a tough, rough-&-tumble ufoworld and there is that down-n-dirty dott'in the t's and crossing the eyes-job that somebody should do in this morass-of-a-field... I don't have a problem w/ that, if any of you do, now is a good time to talk about it.

 

[Burnt State]

An example of ad-hoc peer review of sorts.

I wouldn't deny that's coming from a 100% armchair research perspective, but after following the show for so long and reading people's books regarding what constitutes discussion and evaluation of evidence up against infighting and mud-slinging, I found Mr. Robbins presentation to be a little on the thin side regarding the characterization of Nick Pope as a disinfo. agent. I find both his presentation of his concerns and his rebuttal to be a little out of character as well given his previous presentations of material.

Something's just not right here, the way you can tell those Roswell slides are just not on, like the Boo video, the Turkey video, alien implants, Linda Moulton Howe's absolute convictions regarding video game drones & the imminent alien takeover a la David 'Hybrid Baby' Jacobs, or the hoaxes validated by many a researcher or famous photo analyst. It's not just rough and tumble but an absolute quagmire.

In the middle of this swamp, surrounded by swamp gas of course, are some pretty bright lights, dazzling in their detailed research, chronologies and theoretical bits of brilliance. And somewhere in the middle of that swamp I can still just make out the vague outline of Jim Moseley waving a flag of sanity with a jolly roger on one side and a flying saucer on the other (the whole thing is made with a bamboo pole held together by flower patterned masking tape), and I think I can also see Mac Tonnies sitting down beside him sketching out crypto-ideas that we'll never see.

Ufology is a strange brew at best, and sorting it all out isn't easy. What constitutes quality MIT evidence from the fake MIT evidence is up for grabs, as there is no real in-house verification or policing taking place. In fact the balancing agents called skeptics and debumkers are too often mortal enemies of ufology. No real Truzzi ethic at work at all anymore. Sometimes you take on the role of doubter, I notice.

The unwavering Don Ecker called BS on some when he needed to and that's appreciated, as is the Paracast's efforts to separate signal from noise. (This episode was more noise than signal IMHO.) Outside of this show it seems that the critical examination of what constitutes quality evidentiary procedures and findings is in fact something that belonged to past generations of ufologists, such as Moseley.

But true, this is just one commentator's perspective from the sidelines.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I wouldn't deny that's coming from a 100% armchair research perspective, but after following the show for so long and reading people's books regarding what constitutes discussion and evaluation of evidence up against infighting and mud-slinging, I found Mr. Robbins presentation to be a little on the thin side regarding the characterization of Nick Pope as a disinfo. agent... [T]his is just one commentator's perspective from the sidelines.

Have you read Peter's book and looked at his impressive collection of documentation? Probably not, but that's OK, I'm still pouring over it as well. IMO there are legitimate concerns here and after you've finished your perusal, we'd be interested in your informed observation. FWIW: This so-called "field" is filled w/ many nuances that have tremendous potential impact in the final analysis and if there are legitimate issues w/ a case, they should be addressed, again, this is IMO...

 

[Burnt State]

i'll be honest, i was so taken aback by the excessive documentation, and vacation photos that i had a hard time making sense of what it exactly was he was trying to document. in moving through the many documents i did not see a focused mind presenting a strong case, certainly nothing like Stalking the Herd for example. i need an annotated bibliography of his seven part series to try to understand just what are the connections he is trying to make. But if i can tease out his central pieces, beyond what he presented on this episode and there's merit to the claims then maybe he has a point. but from what i've read so far, and the published file folders that accompany it, i don't see much that is moving or new information that is presenting the case in a new light or in putting the hammer down on Pope. i'm no expert but i don't see this as a convincing effort as far as a written collection. it's more like a loose assembly or a collage, perhaps even the beginning of a book, or the materials that drove his previous one?

 

[Constance]

It seems to me that what Rendlesham shakes down to is two specific camps of witnesses, each with their own proponents, differing versions of reality and we are just watching some of the canon fodder. Each author wants to make their claim on the story.

There's no need for competition between witness 'camps' since Warren's experiences took place on a different night and in a different location from the others. I don't understand why the other witnesses have tried to marginalize and even discredit Warren's account since they weren't where he was at the time. I can see why the PTB would want to discredit Warren's account since, as I recall, he was the one reporting a ufo intrusion over the nuclear weapons storage area (and the US agreement with the UK had been that the US wouldn't store nukes on its base). If I'm misremembering anything in this post, I hope someone will point it out.

 

[sifoj2009]

Your points are all valid. The water has been muddied. I just don't see the point in discussing Rendlesham or Roswell. After all these years nothing has been proved without a shadow of a doubt. I believe those who want to keep those cases in the public view do so for strictly monetary reasons.

Dave M I agree with your stance on the issues relating to the constant rehashing of Roswell and Rendelsham. Looks like it may just be a sham after all. Unfortunately, the guy made some interesting claims and prior to this show I really saw Nick Pope as someone that lent credibility to Ufology and its research. Guess we'll have to see what this leads to in the near future.

 

[fastwalker]

“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.”
― Isaac Asimov
Truer words have never been spoken... I have not commented in a while on anything... But like Asimov said about gathering knowledge faster than wisdom about science so true as well for ufology. More often than not after reading the latest 'HOT' ufology book I am sadden to learn either that it has been misrepresented in some fashion or is merely a rehashing of what is written previously or some other issue... Personally I never tire of the subject and will continue to consume everything that interests me on it, whether met with disappointment or not. So what is the point? IMO without controversy, without conflict, without speculation, without any of things that regularly happen in ufology there can be no moving forward and whom am I to know what it is like to walk a mile in another man's shoes, come let us gather wisdom...IMO Peace my friends.

 

[boomerang]

Robbins was an interesting interview. He's probably the single most articulate person in UFOlogy.

Let me pull the thread a tad off topic and recommend the late Georgina Bruni's "You Can't Tell The People" as the best single overview of Rendlesham I've read so far. Bruni does not play favorites or take sides. Be aware that the cliche "fascinating if true" applies.

The catch here is that inasmuch as Ms Bruni is no longer with us, she is not available for questions and discussion.

 

[Constance]

The link below goes to a website that provides a download of all but Part 5 of the Robbins book. (scroll down to find it)

Where Did the Road Go? Show Archive

 

[DaveM]

Dave M I agree with your stance on the issues relating to the constant rehashing of Roswell and Rendelsham. Looks like it may just be a sham after all. Unfortunately, the guy made some interesting claims and prior to this show I really saw Nick Pope as someone that lent credibility to Ufology and its research. Guess we'll have to see what this leads to in the near future.

The problem I have had with Nick Pope is what do we really expect him to tell us? I doubt the Ministry of Defense is going to allow Pope to speak about any relevant UFO matters. If he can't tell us what he knows, he is just another commentator giving us his opinions. My gut feeling is that Pope is in it for the money. Did everyone forget his comments on the London Olympics?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...My gut feeling is that Pope is in it for the money. Did everyone forget his comments on the London Olympics?

Ahh, yes, we forgot to ask him about that last time he was on. Perhaps he is attempting to access his inner trickster?

 

[DaveM]

Ahh, yes, we forgot to ask him about that last time he was on. Perhaps he is attempting to access his inner trickster?

More like his inner bankster, Chris.

 

[Pigsinzen]

I missed Nick Pope's Olympic comment(s). Please share...

What I didn't miss is the 30 plus credits he has on IMDB. Nick Pope - IMDb

My point being that he seems to me to be more entertainer and talking head than serious investigator/researcher.

To Peter Robbins' credit he was direct and pointed in his criticisms. Kudos Peter for calling a spade a spade. Kudos Gene & Chris for a thought provoking episode & for allowing this man to make his point!

 

[DaveM]

You can do a search and find tons of info about Pope and the London Olympics. In essence, Pope said to be on the lookout for UFOs during the London Olympics. He said that the Ministry of Defence had contingency plans for dealing with an alien invasion such as this. Supposedly this was all a promotion for a Sony Playstation game Pope was involved with.

I did do a little checking on Nick Pope. Someone contacted his superior at the Ministry in 1997. Here are the comments..." he (Pope) was a junior desk officer in the
Secretariat(Air Staff)2a section from 1991-1994 and was not in
charge of, or the head of any part of Secretariat (Air Staff)2." I think Nick Pope has inflated his resume somewhat and became the go-to expert for British UFO stories.

 

[junius]

I found Mr Robbins appeared rather genuine in his feelings and beliefs. I fear that Nick Pope is not so much as a disinformation agent but rather getting lost in show biz (Ancient Aliens and the like), as opposed to seriously studying the phenomena again...

 

[Burnt State]

He's an opportunist. It's not an unfamiliar position.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I can still just make out the vague outline of Jim Moseley waving a flag of sanity with a jolly roger on one side and a flying saucer on the other (the whole thing is made with a bamboo pole held together by flower patterned masking tape)...

You're hilarious... thanks for the fantastic belly laughing...

After listening to all the first hand testimony from the two main R-BW security guard witnesses at the mock congressional hearings in DC I couldn't possibly believe [anymore] that this had anything to do with ET-UFO's. Both their stories had changed and got whacky-er and more grandiose over the years. [Just waiting for the follow-on Alien Abductions... like Salas.]

Once I got into Gabe Valdez, Bennewitz, Mirage Men, Bishop's book, and related interviews I was/am absolutely certain R-BW was a human caused probe PSYOPS's. Could be the same type of UFO's flying off the base in New Mexico that Bennewitz and Valdez saw. Note, the same US base commander went to the same UFO NM base that came from R-BW.

This is all security reaction probing... same UFO crappola done at the nuke missile sites too! It was all done in those years of the Hollywood UFO awakenings... perfect for testing young impressionable security guards and their reactions to the unknown that was well shaped by the ET-UFO's and the Cold War. What an awesome psych-weapon - ET-UFO's -the human kind.

Once "the game" was found-out... poof, they're gone! Replaced by triangles and drones and Skinwalker Ranch games for those that still want to believe. The game is still on...

ET did it with the flower power masking tape...