DeLonge's "disclosure"

[Randall]

Exactly so, which is why I have become convinced over the years that if there is a non-prosaic explanation for it all that it's not space aliens, but rather something much more closer to home - and to us - on a deeply personal, perhaps even spiritual, level.

The report Mellon describes involving the Nimitz Carrier Group doesn't fit into that at all, or the 1952 DC flap, or quite a few others, and I know of no "spirits" that have been tracked on radar or taken the shape of an alien craft.

 

[The 5th Element]

Leslie K is convinced this has merit. She wrote the Huffington srticle. If you go to her facebook page she has more detail. There is a "mostly" rational discussion there about the participants and what they have to offer. I certainly hope something worthwhile comes from it. I wouldn't mind making a donation but I really need to see something more concrete in terms of evidence.

 

[Randall]

Leslie K is convinced this has merit. She wrote the Huffington srticle. If you go to her facebook page she has more detail. There is a "mostly" rational discussion there about the participants and what they have to offer. I certainly hope something worthwhile comes from it. I wouldn't mind making a donation but I really need to see something more concrete in terms of evidence.

I actually like the idea in principle. That is a company that has it's own entertainment component that in theory if successful can fund more serious R&D. But the presentation didn't inspire confidence in me, because for one thing, there was no business plan and I don't see any treasurer or marketing wing. If it's going to be self-sustaining, it needs to have a better plan than donations, but what exactly is that? How will the initial $229,305 dollars raised be spent? Maybe if they made some sort of low-budget film that did unexpectedly well they could build it into a franchise or something. It would be a long-shot but at least it's a plan.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Just another Messiah out to get cash from the true believers for disclosure (never happen if they new what it is ) . Sounds , smells like snake oil B.S and it happened in the Wild West with horrid miracle potions .

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Just another Messiah out to get cash from the true believers for disclosure (never happen if they new what it is ) . Sounds , smells like snake oil B.S and it happened in the Wild West with horrid miracle potions .

I actually think that DeLonge is sincere in his interest, but I just don't think it will go anywhere which is usually the case. I think he's a lot more trustworthy than someone like Greer, but we'll have to see where this goes.
I'm with Paul on this one though - I don't think there's much to disclose as this point, but it would be a lot of fun if there was.

We're definitely going to be talking about this on Double Density in an upcoming episode though and I'm looking forward to hearing Gene and Chris's take on it.

 

[marduk]

Okay, if I have what you're getting at right, you're not saying that you necessarily think there isn't information that exceeds what Joe public knows, but that whatever info the PTB has, no matter how amazing to Joe Public, it still isn't going to provide definitive answers because it is likely to be so far beyond our range of understanding as to be of no practical use?

What I'm saying is there's two paths that lead to the same well-travelled endpoint:

Path a: they have stuff and don't know what to do with it
Path b: they don't have stuff and don't know what to do about it

Well travelled endpoint: government/military ignorance.

These guys are semi-competent at best. They fail at just about every endeavour. And yet folks believe they have it all figured out and have managed to keep it secret for two or three generations? I seriously doubt it.

If the government and military has demonstrated competency at anything, it's being good at providing the illusion of competence.

Security theatre, anyone? Does anyone really think the same thinking that got us the TSA checkpoints in airports - which doesn't actually secure anyone but gives an illusion of security - could crack what thousands or millions of experiencers couldn't?

 

[Randall]

What I'm saying is there's two paths that lead to the same well-travelled endpoint:

Path a: they have stuff and don't know what to do with it
Path b: they don't have stuff and don't know what to do about it

Well travelled endpoint: government/military ignorance.

These guys are semi-competent at best. They fail at just about every endeavour. And yet folks believe they have it all figured out and have managed to keep it secret for two or three generations? I seriously doubt it.

If the government and military has demonstrated competency at anything, it's being good at providing the illusion of competence.

Security theatre, anyone? Does anyone really think the same thinking that got us the TSA checkpoints in airports - which doesn't actually secure anyone but gives an illusion of security - could crack what thousands or millions of experiencers couldn't?

Okay that seems reasonable. I'm not sure what you mean by "stuff", like material stuff, or just really good reports backed by some combination of films, instrumented detection, official eye-witnesses etc. But I think it's entirely reasonable to believe they have one or both, which makes it "Path A" and I for one would really like to study it for myself. Even if they don't know what to do with it, who's to say someone out in the public might not come up with some good ideas. Plus just the disclosure of the situation itself by the PTB would be a powerful statement. So even if they don't have all the answers, I don't think that alone makes sharing what is known a pointless exercise.

In the meantime, I'm not going to hold my breath, and it's my view that those who already know alien visitation is a reality are wasting energy trying to convince the government to release what they have just so they can throw it in the face of the skeptics. We need another approach. This Delonge thing seems to at least be some sort of attempt to do something ourselves ( the public ). Maybe it will go up in smoke. Maybe it won't. But at least it's some kind of action.

 

[marduk]

Okay that seems reasonable. I'm not sure what you mean by "stuff", like material stuff, or just really good reports backed by some combination of films, instrumented detection, official eye-witnesses etc. But I think it's entirely reasonable to believe they have one or both, which makes it "Path A" and I for one would really like to study it for myself. Even if they don't know what to do with it, who's to say someone out in the public might not come up with some good ideas. Plus just the disclosure of the situation itself by the PTB would be a powerful statement. So even if they don't have all the answers, I don't think that alone makes sharing what is known a pointless exercise.

In the meantime, I'm not going to hold my breath, and it's my view that those who already know alien visitation is a reality are wasting energy trying to convince the government to release what they have just so they can throw it in the face of the skeptics. We need another approach. This Delonge thing seems to at least be some sort of attempt to do something ourselves ( the public ). Maybe it will go up in smoke. Maybe it won't. But at least it's some kind of action.

Mmm... I think this is going to be ultimately counter productive.

It’s clearly “hey look at me” + “give me money.”

And they have the word entertainment right there in their mandate. That doesn’t bode well.

 

[Randall]

Mmm... I think this is going to be ultimately counter productive.

It’s clearly “hey look at me” + “give me money.”

And they have the word entertainment right there in their mandate. That doesn’t bode well.

I'm getting much the same feeling, but I try to force myself to look at the positive side too. Unlike other situations like the Roswell slides or Roswell autopsy, the intent seems genuine, the people involved aren't in the Hall of Shame, and the general approach seems quite positive. I've listened to Mellon now on a couple of other podcasts, and so-far, so-good. There's also nothing inherently bad about using money to make a project function, and I don't have a problem with entertainment provided that it's kept in proper context. In fact the entertainment part is sometimes fun. Ufology has all these facets, and if the entertainment wing can generate revenue to fund the R & D without ethical compromise, then IMO it beats constantly asking for donations.

I mean if it's given a chance who knows? Sure it's got problems to work through, but I don't see you or me getting these people together and doing a live podcast to try to put something into action. Assuming it's an honest effort, I think it deserves some praise just for getting out there and doing something constructive. I guess the question everyone probably has is how much of a real honest effort is it? Where will the money already raised go? And such.

 

[marduk]

I'm getting much the same feeling, but I try to force myself to look at the positive side too. Unlike other situations like the Roswell slides or Roswell autopsy, the intent seems genuine, the people involved aren't in the Hall of Shame, and the general approach seems quite positive. I've listened to Mellon now on a couple of other podcasts, and so-far, so-good. There's also nothing inherently bad about using money to make a project function, and I don't have a problem with entertainment provided that it's kept in proper context. In fact the entertainment part is sometimes fun. Ufology has all these facets, and if the entertainment wing can generate revenue to fund the R & D without ethical compromise, then IMO it beats constantly asking for donations.

I mean if it's given a chance who knows? Sure it's got problems to work through, but I don't see you or me getting these people together and doing a live podcast to try to put something into action. Assuming it's an honest effort, I think it deserves some praise just for getting out there and doing something constructive.

Always the optimist!

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

I actually think that DeLonge is sincere in his interest, but I just don't think it will go anywhere which is usually the case. I think he's a lot more trustworthy than someone like Greer, but we'll have to see where this goes.
I'm with Paul on this one though - I don't think there's much to disclose as this point, but it would be a lot of fun if there was.

We're definitely going to be talking about this on Double Density in an upcoming episode though and I'm looking forward to hearing Gene and Chris's take on it.

I agree there is something going on and what it who f.ck knows its UFOs (unidentified ) and do think the firm has data which never see the day of light especially if it's classified which could be from 150 to 200 years padlocked. You see Nick Pope said on number accounts he can't discuss all his work in the firm still under national security oath until the day he pops off thats how its goes Angelo. Barry Greenwood ( which think he is doing a great job) who is seeking the facts from different angles for the material. Like any organisation it can control the flow of information and this rock star is just another in long line of spoon feed what they want to hear. Even all the lawyers cannot move the barriers if it's classified. Also look forward to your show Angelo and you should have on Gen/Chris it would be a great show like Elon Musk , Dr. Michio Kaku with a science hour.

 

[Ezechiel]

From Leslie Kean on facebook:

A MESSAGE FOR MY FRIENDS HERE: Folks, I'm concerned that some of you are missing the point. The head of a secret UFO program at the DOD has just come forward to confirm the existence of that program. Based on the work of this official program, he has stated for the world to hear, that UFOs are unquestionably real. He left that program less than 2 weeks ago. This is as close to official "disclosure" as we have come since the close of Project Blue Book. It's big news.

... Previous disclosure in 1960's : The phenomenon poses no threat to national security...

All right then... one small step for a man, one giant leap for ? What's a real UFO anyways ?

 

[DaveM]

I agree there is something going on and what it who f.ck knows its UFOs (unidentified ) and do think the firm has data which never see the day of light especially if it's classified which could be from 150 to 200 years padlocked. You see Nick Pope said on number accounts he can't discuss all his work in the firm still under national security oath until the day he pops off thats how its goes Angelo. Barry Greenwood ( which think he is doing a great job) who is seeking the facts from different angles for the material. Like any organisation it can control the flow of information and this rock star is just another in long line of spoon feed what they want to hear. Even all the lawyers cannot move the barriers if it's classified. Also look forward to your show Angelo and you should have on Gen/Chris it would be a great show like Elon Musk , Dr. Michio Kaku with a science hour.

Whenever I see Nick Pope's name mentioned as some sort of expert I have to cringe. He has been claiming for years he was the 'head' of the UFO desk for the Ministry of Defence. In truth, his superior states he was merely a junior desk clerk, nothing more.

 

[Randall]

Whenever I see Nick Pope's name mentioned as some sort of expert I have to cringe. He has been claiming for years he was the 'head' of the UFO desk for the Ministry of Defence. In truth, his superior states he was merely a junior desk clerk, nothing more.

Pope's become the talking bobble head of the "UAP" movement. Consequently he's doing more to undermine ufology than to help it.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

How could a government sufficiently and satisfactorily communicate, within a fair range of reasonable doubt, that they don't have any useful information or materials regarding extraterrrestials or UFO's?

Interestingly, there are people in the world who believe the government conspires behind terror attack and natural disasters, as a means of keeping people scared and controlled, and simultaneously believe that the government hides evidence of extraterrestrial visitation and technology because it would cause a panic. That existing inside one skull has always been entertaining to me.

On that note, why might a government put so much money, time, and energy into hiding information regarding extraterrestrials, UFO's, or other supernatural/paranormal concepts?

It seems like any man off the street with time and a car can become a famous UFO investigator, regardless of background or lack of formal training in any relevant discipline. There is, via these people simply driving around and intently looking at stuff, so much accepted evidence amongst the UFO community that the idea that a government would attempt to hide something so easily uncovered and explored is on par with the government attempting to hide the existence of baby squirrels.

So, to me, it's either A) something the government stopped looking into decades ago, because they never found anything compelling enough to justify the continued expense, but because they ever looked at it at all, they're eternally damned as liars by those who truly want a different answer, or B) the evidence UFO researchers have collected is all 100% real, and evidence is so easy, numerous, and common (that untrained, curious citizens can stumble upon piles of it every single time they try), that attempting to hide it from anyone would be absurdly difficult and relatively pointless.

[It seems to me that most UFO enthusiasts want to have their government conspiracy cake, and eat it too.]

I'll rephrase this. It seems to me that the UFO enthusiasts who suspect o believe there are government coverups and hidden knowledge about these phenomena want to both believe that formally untrained citizens and uncover mountains of evidence, but that a government would still believe, in the face of that, such accessible phenomena could even be hidden.

I consider myself a UFO and Paranormal enthusiast, and I'm aware that MOST don't actually believe that idea. I was speaking quickly, and so misspoke.

I guess I'd ask some of the people here who do believe the government is hiding something, how they gel the idea of the untrained-citizen-detective uncovering pretty much everything they know, regarding evidence, about paranormal phenomena, with the idea a government would/could attempt to hide evidence or information about something so apparently easily explored and uncovered?

I'm really curious about that.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I agree there is something going on and what it who f.ck knows its UFOs (unidentified ) and do think the firm has data which never see the day of light especially if it's classified which could be from 150 to 200 years padlocked. You see Nick Pope said on number accounts he can't discuss all his work in the firm still under national security oath until the day he pops off thats how its goes Angelo. Barry Greenwood ( which think he is doing a great job) who is seeking the facts from different angles for the material. Like any organisation it can control the flow of information and this rock star is just another in long line of spoon feed what they want to hear. Even all the lawyers cannot move the barriers if it's classified. Also look forward to your show Angelo and you should have on Gen/Chris it would be a great show like Elon Musk , Dr. Michio Kaku with a science hour.

I would love to have Gene and Chris on one of these days - our first episode with a guest was the most recent one, and we're hoping to have people on from time to time.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Whenever I see Nick Pope's name mentioned as some sort of expert I have to cringe. He has been claiming for years he was the 'head' of the UFO desk for the Ministry of Defence. In truth, his superior states he was merely a junior desk clerk, nothing more.

I often find that UFO "experts" inflate their importance and love to include their alphabet soup of credentials or go by "Dr." when a lot of people don't do that (Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Phil Plait come to mind) even if they can.

 

[DaveM]

Perhaps Pope can’t talk about UFO secrets was because as a junior clerk he wasn’t privy to any. These ‘experts’ should take note of people like Phil Imbrogno who falsified their resumes.

 

[marduk]

From Leslie Kean on facebook:

A MESSAGE FOR MY FRIENDS HERE: Folks, I'm concerned that some of you are missing the point. The head of a secret UFO program at the DOD has just come forward to confirm the existence of that program. Based on the work of this official program, he has stated for the world to hear, that UFOs are unquestionably real. He left that program less than 2 weeks ago. This is as close to official "disclosure" as we have come since the close of Project Blue Book. It's big news.

... Previous disclosure in 1960's : The phenomenon poses no threat to national security...

All right then... one small step for a man, one giant leap for ? What's a real UFO anyways ?

Are we talking about Pope or someone like Pope?

Because while I love hearing Pope's stories, he hasn't advance the field in any way that I know about.

 

[marduk]

If that's not credibility, I don't know what is?

I mean, the dudes wearing a toque. That means business.