Did Ancient Egyptians Possess Advanced Technologies?

[Red]

Okay, I am still not completely convinced that they needed advanced technology to build what they did, but I am willing to be open to the position that they built their monuments for a purpose that is not known or yet understood.
Reminds me of the book, "On the Frontiers of Science" by G. Harry Stine.

 

[trainedobserver]

First year Art History taught me this but most people don't know since the popular story is the one from The Ten Commandments.

What? You mean to say they weren't forced to get their own straw to make the bricks with! I'm flabbergasted. How can we have been mislead so?

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------

Para, I do believe we have reached a most amicable disagreement. Between the two possibilities:
1, A plant
2, Human stubborn ingenuity

What about laser beams from the eyes of their Chaldean Magicians? No? $%#!

 

[Kieran]

Okay, I am still not completely convinced that they needed advanced technology to build what they did, but I am willing to be open to the position that they built their monuments for a purpose that is not known or yet understood.
Reminds me of the book, "On the Frontiers of Science" by G. Harry Stine.

You don't need amazing technology you can find metals on this planet that would have cut the stones of limestone and granite. Copper tools, it proven that such tools are unable to cut Granite but steel and Iron can. Therefore I would have the belief those stones were cut by steel or Iron or some other strong metal.

I still find it extremely odd that the Egyptian culture would not document or record the building of the Giant Pyramid in Giza. I also find it strange that other forum members don't either.

If the Sphinx is truly over 9,000 years old maybe the Egyptian culture is older then we think and Maybe Steel and Iron was brought to Egypt from Europe or elsewhere?

 

[Red]

You don't need amazing technology you can find metals on this planet that would have cut the stones of limestone and granite. Copper tools, it proven that such tools are unable to cut Granite but steel and Iron can. Therefore I would have the belief those stones were cut by steel or Iron or some other strong metal.

I still find it extremely odd that the Egyptian culture would not document or record the building of the Giant Pyramid in Giza. I also find it strange that other forum members don't either.

If the Sphinx is truly over 9,000 years old maybe the Egyptian culture is older then we think and Maybe Steel and Iron was brought to Egypt from Europe or elsewhere?

I dunno, but it should also be brought to notice that copper was (and still is) used for lapping discs for diamond polishing as copper is soft enough to hold the diamond particles that will polish a diamond, even though copper itself could not be used for the same purpose. I think it is plausible that the AE's used a similar technology. Temple and Monument building was big business in Egypt and one that was well funded. It wouldn't matter if the copper tools didn't last long because the resources were in place to provide more as needed.

 

[Kieran]

I dunno, but it should also be brought to notice that copper was (and still is) used for lapping discs for diamond polishing as copper is soft enough to hold the diamond particles that will polish a diamond, even though copper itself could not be used for the same purpose. I think it is plausible that the AE's used a similar technology. Temple and Monument building was big business in Egypt and one that was well funded. It wouldn't matter if the copper tools didn't last long because the resources were in place to provide more as needed.

There is slight difference, those copper laps are just used to shine and polish all kinds of stone. The Ancient Egyptians, it is being alleged cut hardened granite with nothing else, but the Copper tools they had available to them.

It has goes against the metal handbook for what metals can cut certain types of stone.

In construction professionals working in that Industry would confirm what I am telling you. The determining factor is the "MOH Scale of Hardness" and the "Barcol Harness"

Copper has ranking of 2-3 on the scale. Copper would require a hardness of 6 or above to enable it to cut through the granite stone.

If you disagree, do take the time to research the evidence yourself? If anyone comes across an example of were someone cut a granite block with a Copper saw or Copper Chisel. Please post that evidence, so I can rethink my belief system!!

I already put that challenge out previously, and nobody responded even though people challenged my posting on this topic strongly. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, the Ancient Egyptians had steel or Iron? Of course steel has never been fought in Egypt, and Iron has been found, only in low quantities, but the Iron was not used in Tool making, well supposedly?

From the reading I have done on the Pyramids only handful of Copper tools were discovered at the Pyramid site location. They were mainly Copper Chisels from what I learned.

To me personally what they found considering the quantity found. Those tools were used by workers doing Repair work, and not by the workers, who actually, Build the Pyramid of Giza.

I have different opinion to others, that's fine, and I don't need Aliens to be involved in the construction of the Pyramids

I just want to gain some acceptance from others that the Egyptians needed more than Copper saws or Chisels to cut that stone from the quarry.

 

[Red]

Kieran,
Although at this time I am not sure I agree with you, I will defer judgment and hope that future archaeological finds clarify this issue even more. To bad we don't live in Egypt next to a quarry since both copper and sand are cheap.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran,
Although at this time I am not sure I agree with you, I will defer judgment and hope that future archaeological finds clarify this issue even more. To bad we don't live in Egypt next to a quarry since both copper and sand are cheap.

Thanks Red, No that's fine. Nobody here is under any obligation to take my word for it, but a bit of basic research from you and everyone, will prove I am correct.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

Hi Kieran,

I watched this show not too long ago and I think it addresses some of the problems of tools and metal, etc.

Netflix

I can't get Netflix here Lance.

Could you write a short summary of how they solved the problem of Copper cutting Granite?

 

[Kandinsky]

Thanks Red, No that's fine. Nobody here is under any obligation to take my word for it, but a bit of basic research from you and everyone, will prove I am correct.

'Prove I am correct.' Kieran, we've been through this before and the evidence is like water off a duck's back to you. You've been directed to books, papers, photographs, metallurgy reports and a video. The small few you looked at weren't acceptable. IIRC you've set the bar for 'acceptable' at a you tube video.

Here's a summary of your position:

*The Egyptians had some special metal that someone has hidden from us.
*The guys who've cut stone with copper and minerals are hoaxers.
*The academics are part of a cover-up.
*The researchers believe anything they read.
*The peer-review system is an elaborate method of preventing the rest of the world from knowing the incredible fact that (OMFG!) Egyptians had iron some 1000 years earlier than suspected.
*Over thousands of years, they've all been working to together to lie to 'the public.'

Is it really some 'Egyptian Watergate' ( paraphrasing Stan) whereby a millenia-old conspiracy is at work to stop the public finding out they had iron and 'cheated on their homework?'

Or is it more likely, you are wrong?

 

[Kieran]

'Prove I am correct.' Kieran, we've been through this before and the evidence is like water off a duck's back to you. You've been directed to books, papers, photographs, metallurgy reports and a video. The small few you looked at weren't acceptable. IIRC you've set the bar for 'acceptable' at a you tube video.

Here's a summary of your position:

*The Egyptians had some special metal that someone has hidden from us.
*The guys who've cut stone with copper and minerals are hoaxers.
*The academics are part of a cover-up.
*The researchers believe anything they read.
*The peer-review system is an elaborate method of preventing the rest of the world from knowing the incredible fact that (OMFG!) Egyptians had iron some 1000 years earlier than suspected.
*Over thousands of years, they've all been working to together to lie to 'the public.'

Is it really some 'Egyptian Watergate' ( paraphrasing Stan) whereby a millenia-old conspiracy is at work to stop the public finding out they had iron and 'cheated on their homework?'

Or is it more likely, you are wrong?

I wonder if someone would be willing to do a experiment if they have the time and it wouldn't cost much. That someone neutral posting on the forum. Could get there hands on a Copper saw and piece of granite and then video taped themselves trying to cut this granite stone with Copper. I'm 100 per cent sure it can not be done, but you are, so any takers?

 

[Red]

I wonder if someone would be willing to do a experiment if they have the time and it wouldn't cost much. That someone neutral posting on the forum. Could get there hands on a Copper saw and piece of granite and then video taped themselves trying to cut this granite stone with Copper. I'm 100 per cent sure it can not be done, but you are, so any takers?

I have tried the scratch test with copper wire and quite correctly there was no damage to the granite surface. I have some granite rocks and I have copper sheets and pipe, but no camera and no time right now. And if I were to do this, I would use sand and perhaps water in conjunction with the copper. I wonder if the same properties that make copper great for lapping discs would allow the grit to bite into the copper allowing it to cause friction and wear against the granite. Maybe when I have some time.

In Stine's book he mentioned that the Czech army reputedly used quadrangular cardboard pyramids to house their razors that kept blades sharper longer than they should have under normal use. This could also be a fairly easy experiment for the folks at home, and is what makes me think there is more to the pyramids at Giza.

 

[dyingsun]

[video=metacafe;797668/amazing_save_cash_by_keeping_your_razor_blades_sha]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/797668/amazing_save_cash_by_keeping_your_razor_blades_sha rp_forever_i/[/video]
There are loads of companies trying to cash in on this these days.

 

[Kieran]

I have tried the scratch test with copper wire and quite correctly there was no damage to the granite surface. I have some granite rocks and I have copper sheets and pipe, but no camera and no time right now. And if I were to do this, I would use sand and perhaps water in conjunction with the copper. I wonder if the same properties that make copper great for lapping discs would allow the grit to bite into the copper allowing it to cause friction and wear against the granite. Maybe when I have some time.

In Stine's book he mentioned that the Czech army reputedly used quadrangular cardboard pyramids to house their razors that kept blades sharper longer than they should have under normal use. This could also be a fairly easy experiment for the folks at home, and is what makes me think there is more to the pyramids at Giza.

Thanks Red. It's not a satisfactory test, of course, to prove my theory. But you do confirm that you personally tried to scratch a granite surface with some copper wire and it caused no damage. Am I correct in that assumption?

It's a pity you have no camera and the time available to you, to carry out this experiment!!!

Copper saws having being able to slice or cut Granite stone, along with the help of sand and water, has never been satisfactory proven, it just a theory that is supported by mainstream Egyptologist's.

The Egyptians were pressed for time, a schedule had to be adhered to, and this is the mainstream Egyptologists viewpoint or theory.They've claimed it took around twenty years plus to build the pyramid at Giza.

The limestone and Granite blocks had to be quarried, and then brought from there, up the river Nile,, and then placed into position every six minutes or fours minutes, I do believe!! So for there theory to work Copper would have to have cut the Granite perfectly through and fast (four minutes to six minutes!!)

I don't think it can be done, but I'm willing to test my theory, and be wrong and apologise for being wrong.

---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

Hi Kieran,

The show I referenced was more about the carving of the Sphinx. In one of the demonstrations, a team of guys tried to use copper implements to carry out the carving process. The copper tools did become dull very quickly and the work was very slow. Evidence was cited that the tools used for carving the stone were constantly being re-fired and sharpened. Their estimate was that 100 carvers working 3 years could have carved the Sphinx (the 100 workers would have had to have been supported by many others, making fires and sharpening the tools). In the end, I was impressed with the work done: they carved a smaller scale nose, partially with copper tools and partially with modern tools.

Hope this helps,

Lance

The Sphinx as far as I know is mainly of Limestone stone. Some of the Limestone blocks are two hundred tons in weight, and copper saws can and will cut through limestone. But Lance, it's a time-consuming process, and like I said before, the Egyptians had a time schedule to keep!!
Granite is totally different stone and Copper is virtually useless for cutting Granite stone.

On a side note. The Sphinx carved back area shape, does to me, resemble the headdress of what the Egyptians and Babylonians wore commonly in those times. So I would have the opinion, whoever build the Sphinx, the Great pyramid and the Menkaure and Chephren Pyramid, those peoples must have been indigenous to that location.

I Personally believe the Sphinx is 9,000 years old or perhaps older? The Sphinx show's visible signs of water erosion. A French polymath, I believe, was the first person to notice this evidence.
Robert Schoch a Geologist from Boston Universty, and Colin Reader, a British Geologist, both men believe the sign of weathering with the Sphinx is the result of excessive rainfall!! Frequently, I trust these men, they have nothing to gain from it. There not Egyptologists there Geologists, and they are giving an expert opinion on what caused the weathering with the Sphinx.

The Sphinx may be a symbol or representation of a particular star system or constellation . What that al means (who knows?) Some mainstream Egyptologists believe the Sphinx face was a carved face of a lion. I wouldn't rule it out since we know ancient societies practiced and studied Astrology.

Leo I is believe is the lion in Astrology?

 

[Red]

Thanks Red. It's not a satisfactory test, of course, to prove my theory. But you do confirm that you personally tried to scratch a granite surface with some copper wire and it caused no damage. Am I correct in that assumption?

It's a pity you have no camera and the time available to you, to carry out this experiment!!!

Copper saws having being able to slice or cut Granite stone, along with the help of sand and water, has never been satisfactory proven, it just a theory that is supported by mainstream Egyptologist's.

The Egyptians were pressed for time, a schedule had to be adhered to, and this is the mainstream Egyptologists viewpoint or theory.They've claimed it took around twenty years plus to build the pyramid at Giza.

The limestone and Granite blocks had to be quarried, and then brought from there, up the river Nile,, and then placed into position every six minutes or fours minutes, I do believe!! So for there theory to work Copper would have to have cut the Granite perfectly through and fast (four minutes to six minutes!!)

I don't think it can be done, but I'm willing to test my theory, and be wrong and apologise for being wrong.

Yes, the copper wire did no damage to the granite. I do have a camera, just no video; if I get some time this fall I will try it out and take some pics of the results (or lack of them).

 

[Han]

I have stayed away from this thread because I could not make a comment without it being so very very long as to bore you all to sleep but here goes sorry if I go on too long!

(1) The main problem I have with the idea that the Ancient Egyptians {AE for short} used concrete is that when you are dealing with "liquid stone" you need a flexible mould* or recepticle to pour the said concrete into, in short it would be far more complecated to make the mould than the block, as the massive weight of the stone would deform the mould. Also you would have to have some form of mechanised mixer for the concrete to ensure an even mix that contained minimal amounts of air pockets, as these pockets of air would cause what are known as "blows" or small hollows and fractures when the concrete dries. Having seen some of the AE sights first hand I can assure you that these imperfections are not visable.

(2) The AE's were master statue carvers and carved in some of the hardest stones, their statues where always highly finished (polished) and painted, Unlike later Greek and Roman statues the figures depicted generaly stand with their left foot forward with their hands by their sides, it is interesting to note how well they have survived the tests of thousands of years intact because of these features, Greek and Roman statues generaly have limbs or extremities missing because their carvers created their statues in more life like poses i.e arms outstreched. (I am fully aware of the intentional damage caused to many by the Byzantines and the like).

(3) The fact that the AE's where also master Metalsmiths can not be overlooked, I have seen countless metal figurines that could only of been made by exreemly complicated staged modeling and casting techniques: Lost wax to be exact.

(4) The structure of AE society was very rigid, with people being born into trade or craft guilds i.e if your father was a mason that is what you would be, and you would start practicing your trade from a very early age meaning by the time you where an adult you would be very highly skilled at your job. It is important to also remember that when people work for a common goal amazing things can be achieved.

(5) As is the case now, when a group creates something new and unique it is highly unlikely that they will openly discuss the intrinsic details of how they achieved it, as another group could easilly just copy it. Meaning that any status or power achieved by the innovators would be instantly lost.

(6) Who know what secrets were lost in the great fire of Alexandria, it is my belief that many of the records of the building of the pyramids went up in flames as they would probably be written on papyrus paper (highly flamable).

To my mind this all points to the AE's having great powers of organisation, forward thinking and an immense work ethic, not supernatural or super advanced technology. Having said that compared to how selfish and self centered modern society is they were "highly advanced".


*I am a trained Dental model maker and have worked with many different moulding and casting techniques.

 

[Kandinsky]

To my mind this all points to the AE's having great powers of organisation, forward thinking and an immense work ethic, not supernatural or super advanced technology. Having said that compared to how selfish and self centered modern society is they were "highly advanced"..

Well you're preaching to the choir over here. I've no doubts that the Egyptians (just another human demographic) designed and built all their monuments, artworks and culture by themselves. Naturally, this would be an outcome of precursor stages and involve the influence of neighbours too.

I don't know if I've mentioned it in this thread or on another site, but the guy that came up with the 'polymerisation' idea of (Barsoum iirc) poured limestones blocks is still going. He's moved on to supporting the 'Bosnian Pyramid' which is a GTFO no damn way anything more than a hill location.

I can give you some technical arguments (pdfs & PPT) for the stupidity of the idea, but like you, it was experience that made me dismiss it straight away. Years ago I worked in the building trade and know enough about 'shuttering' to know there's no way on earth a pyramid could be constructed using that approach. It'd take longer than quarrying it and we already have a dozen quarries with the bedding planes of the removed blocks still there!

 

[Artyom]

Thanks a lot Chris! I've been proposing to bring Chris Dunn on The Paracast a while ago and I'm glad that Chris has come up with the new ideas to think about. Perhaps now it's really time to hear him on the show.

 

[Frank Stalter]

"For centuries archaeologists have been trying to work out how the ancient Egyptians raised huge stone blocks to the top of the Great Pyramid. This documentary presents a radical new theory by French architect Jean-Pierre Houdin. He believes that an internal ramp was used, which is still inside the Pyramid waiting to be discovered. If he is right, it is the greatest discovery since Tutankhamun."

I think the Frenchy might have figured it out. I also think the Egyptians were truly inspired by the heavens and whatever they might contain.

 

[5hownewsday]

it is hard to say but it is very possible that they possessed the advanced technologyes otherwise they can't built the pyramids

 

[Sloppy Joe]

I'm going to say that I don't believe they had advanced technology. Maybe they had a massive amount of ingenuity, maybe they were bright (just as much as we have bright minds today) and maybe they had tools that stun us into thinking "wow, that's extraordinary that our modern tools are nearly identical to the stuff they created." However, I think sometimes faulty logic and powerful desires push people toward beliefs that are more than they should be. People see what they want to see, especially if they have a powerful drive to see it.

I'm not saying the AEs weren't intelligent, merely that they were no more so than we are now. That's just my two cents.

 

[Kevin Daly]

This is tired old territory to be rehashing.

Technologies do not exist in isolation, they are influenced by and influence the broader material culture in which they are used.So to take a deliberately absurd example, you would not expect to find a society going to war with tanks, helicopters and stone hand axes.
The problems with allegations of anomalous technology in ancient Egypt are of the same order. There is no mystery at all about most of their technology: we have the remains, some of it is represented on tomb paintings in great detail, and surviving texts tell us how people go about their business. So which is more likely: a) the people of ancient Egypt had certain technologies which were totally anomalous for their time and place, and completely inconsistent with the technology level typical of the rest of their society at any given period, or b) Modern "researchers" with books to sell create false mystification based on their own ignorance and lack of imagination.

The Egyptian civilisation was extraordinarily brilliant, one of the first and brightest flowerings of human civilisation. We should honour them for their very real intellectual and cultural achievements to which we ourselves owe so much, rather than effectively claiming that their parents must have helped them with their homework...