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Did ET Create Earth Life?

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In reading through the material I see tat there is nothing unique there except his own misplaced criticism of Darwin as synthesizer. The other evident point is that Wainwright is an excellent researcher himself and was able to deconstruct Darwin's work by point out the arouse strains of thought of the time that led to Darwin's obvious next move which was to synthesize this collective thought into a theory, what science usually does, folks standing on the shoulders of their peers. So I don't see anything exacting there nor do I see how his sour grapes of Darwin being championed that there is any real great contribution to biology there at all.

If anything, following the read, I got a little more connected to boredom. Is the Hitler paper any more interesting or is it going to be more historical supposition? Because if so then I'll save my time for critiquing him and building igloos.

lol Yes, I see where you get your reputation as a rhetoritician! Oh, definitely lots of historical supposition! I would just build igloos if I were you ... not sure that I can show or tell you anything more.

As to a sense of boredom, I think how that's developed and used is at least as much a personal matter as the other senses, so I can't presume to know what you would think interesting.
 
i'm going to really try to watch my coulds, woulds, and shoulds, and say simply, we have a lot of apples, countless decades of varieties, that all descended from a mother crab apple I tried to grow in my backyard and failed. But I've seen them growing next door and know that this tree is tied to the history of all the many other apples that we've got. Abundance is everywhere on this planet, at least the parts we haven't killed off yet and that's not a suggestion, but a fact of biodiversity, and the only visible one we've got. So, compared to Mars, we're richly abundant, and compared to the other planets nearby, or that we can see a piece of, we've got the greenery in many shades and they all have dust that's usually the same color.

I thought my assumptions were slightly clear, given that the most we've seen in space is a complex carbon branched molecule but no real microbes or complex life forms flying about that would land here and take root. And if complex lifeforms could survive interstellar space then certainly they can survive anywhere; consequently, we should see evidence of them everywhere on nearby space rocks but we don't, so either we don't know how to look for them or they don't exist. Say the most that can survive is microbial life, then where is it as it ain't on the moon and it ain't on mars or meteorites so is it anywhere? (apologies for the shoulds and coulds here, but they do suit the points I'm making: which makes Panspermia an unlikely event, hence my uncertain language)

I celebrate your response to Darwin/Wallace etc. and agree that science builds upon or displaces itself with better ideas, an evolution of thought, and that it's open to change. However I thought boredom was the malaise of life in the modern era and that when left to our own devices in the woods there is no time to be bored as we are too busy trying to survive. Maybe you've been listening too much to early Talking Heads' albums?

Why is our boredom reliable and does it work as a chain of human experience going back to early and pre-civilization?


It was iso-propyl cyanide, a branched carbon molecule and the first thing we've detected in the interstellar dust that is close to the building blocks for amino acids. So again we're caught by the thought that life could be ubiquitous in the universe and just so far apart that we can't detect each other. In this way the lifes story of earth is a goldilocks story that begins once upon a time, 4.54 billion years ago, there was this third rock from the sun whose conditions were just right...and then the magic interstellar dust settled in the mucky soup of that rock and they combined. That's the best possible story. Space seeds seems to be relegated to science fiction.

what's most admirable about how you chase down thoughts and look for new ones is your ability to support the odds and ends of scientific investigation. Tesla, a great thinker, was relegated to being an old man in an apartment feeding pigeons after he was dismissed for thinking the aliens from mars were coming to get us. So yes, very smart people can fall down through the rabbit holes. Is Wainwright very smart in your opinion? You seem to be givng him support in that area. Is he consistent or is he now consistently off in the way Tesla went wonky?

nope, I shoveled the driveway instead waiting to sift through your report back on his validity. I hope you don't see this as unfair or as some have pointed out that I'm merely a rhetorician. I prefer to be seen as a synthesizer, Moog if you are asking.

so, is he consistent, or consistently barking up trees that have no cats in them?

what's most admirable about how you chase down thoughts and look for new ones is your ability to support the odds and ends of scientific investigation. Tesla, a great thinker, was relegated to being an old man in an apartment feeding pigeons after he was dismissed for thinking the aliens from mars were coming to get us. So yes, very smart people can fall down through the rabbit holes. Is Wainwright very smart in your opinion? You seem to be givng him support in that area. Is he consistent or is he now consistently off in the way Tesla went wonky?
Here's what I said on that ....

"Ok, so the Hitler-thing appears to be possible, I haven't looked at the bacteria-cancer thing ... but Milton is employed by a major university - Krebbs of the cycle was there and the nobel for contributions to penicilin went to his dept back in the day (2 nobels then for that dept), so there is some clout maybe if he keeps his job - and there is a connection for him to be researching penicillin, Fred Hoyle had an interest in panspermia and rejected the BB theory ... Linus Pauling took massive doses of C and nobody let Fermi in their lab when critical experiments were going on, I can't even figure out where to begin with Tesla on eccentricities,

so while this guy doesn't seem to be in that category,

I am going to defend him for the time being against a label of "out there"
 
If he had anything that was an actual original idea that had merit to support his original contention that he has discovered for the second time that life was seeded here, as opposed to his index of Darwin's ideas, that I would find interesting.
 
i'm going to really try to watch my coulds, woulds, and shoulds, and say simply, we have a lot of apples, countless decades of varieties, that all descended from a mother crab apple I tried to grow in my backyard and failed. But I've seen them growing next door and know that this tree is tied to the history of all the many other apples that we've got. Abundance is everywhere on this planet, at least the parts we haven't killed off yet and that's not a suggestion, but a fact of biodiversity, and the only visible one we've got. So, compared to Mars, we're richly abundant, and compared to the other planets nearby, or that we can see a piece of, we've got the greenery in many shades and they all have dust that's usually the same color.

I thought my assumptions were slightly clear, given that the most we've seen in space is a complex carbon branched molecule but no real microbes or complex life forms flying about that would land here and take root. And if complex lifeforms could survive interstellar space then certainly they can survive anywhere; consequently, we should see evidence of them everywhere on nearby space rocks but we don't, so either we don't know how to look for them or they don't exist. Say the most that can survive is microbial life, then where is it as it ain't on the moon and it ain't on mars or meteorites so is it anywhere? (apologies for the shoulds and coulds here, but they do suit the points I'm making: which makes Panspermia an unlikely event, hence my uncertain language)

I celebrate your response to Darwin/Wallace etc. and agree that science builds upon or displaces itself with better ideas, an evolution of thought, and that it's open to change. However I thought boredom was the malaise of life in the modern era and that when left to our own devices in the woods there is no time to be bored as we are too busy trying to survive. Maybe you've been listening too much to early Talking Heads' albums?

Why is our boredom reliable and does it work as a chain of human experience going back to early and pre-civilization?


It was iso-propyl cyanide, a branched carbon molecule and the first thing we've detected in the interstellar dust that is close to the building blocks for amino acids. So again we're caught by the thought that life could be ubiquitous in the universe and just so far apart that we can't detect each other. In this way the lifes story of earth is a goldilocks story that begins once upon a time, 4.54 billion years ago, there was this third rock from the sun whose conditions were just right...and then the magic interstellar dust settled in the mucky soup of that rock and they combined. That's the best possible story. Space seeds seems to be relegated to science fiction.

what's most admirable about how you chase down thoughts and look for new ones is your ability to support the odds and ends of scientific investigation. Tesla, a great thinker, was relegated to being an old man in an apartment feeding pigeons after he was dismissed for thinking the aliens from mars were coming to get us. So yes, very smart people can fall down through the rabbit holes. Is Wainwright very smart in your opinion? You seem to be givng him support in that area. Is he consistent or is he now consistently off in the way Tesla went wonky?

nope, I shoveled the driveway instead waiting to sift through your report back on his validity. I hope you don't see this as unfair or as some have pointed out that I'm merely a rhetorician. I prefer to be seen as a synthesizer, Moog if you are asking.

so, is he consistent, or consistently barking up trees that have no cats in them?

what's most admirable about how you chase down thoughts and look for new ones is your ability to support the odds and ends of scientific investigation.

Very kind! ... and you and others said some very nice things on the the "guest" thread about me, which I appreciate! (I do have a face for radio ...)

but to me I'm a boring thinker, slow and repetitive, always saying the same thing over and over, contrary - rarely does my reach exceed my grasp, I reach mostly for what's at hand - and even though the hours are long and the pay is lousy and he didn't even ask me to, I advocate for the devil way too often.

I think I just said (repetition) that I'm the patron saint of lost scientific causes, it was either Schopenhauer or Konrad Lorenz who said something about how a civilization treats its animals, and I agree, but I also say how we treat our fringe says a lot about us too.
 
but to me I'm a boring thinker, slow and repetitive, always saying the same thing over and over, contrary - rarely does my reach exceed my grasp, I reach mostly for what's at hand - and even though the hours are long and the pay is lousy and he didn't even ask me to, I advocate for the devil way too often.

Every now and again your turn of phrase is captivating. ;)
 
"Hypotheses that are consistent with standard models often pass peer review without anyone seriously questioning whether the idea has been developed using the empirical scientific method. Yet in most cases it is not difficult to check whether the scientific method has actually been properly employed. For example, consider the hypotheses that 'there are gnomes in my garden who make themselves invisible when anyone tries to observe them,' Clearly, no conceivable experiment or observation exists that could ever falsify that statement. This marks the hypotheses as being pseudoscientific. This example is laughable. But there are others no less absurd that have been seriously proposed and then generally accepted without receiving the scrutiny they deserve.

"Peer review works well in areas such as engineering, chemistry, and applied physics - areas where erroneous ideas are easily falsified experimentally because they quickly result in obvious failures. But in research areas where no real world testing of theories is possible, it can completely obstruct progress. It can also prolong the life of accepted but unsound paradigms.

"Non-falsifiable hypotheses are nonscientific."

There is so much wrong with what Wainwright is suggesting that it becomes a case of: why bother? who has the time?

If Wainwright is someone who legitimately believes what he is saying, then he is working deductively, from an unsubstantiated presumption - aliens exist, aliens are or have been traveling the galaxy doing stuff. He is interpreting his data from an unproven generalization. (He's a Platonist. :) ) Thing is, science is empirical (Aristoltle). Both polarities work hand-in-glove. As Roger Bacon correctly pointed out: "argument is not enough, experience is."

"Science places first priority on the empirical method. The deductive method is (should be) secondary - used to derive testable consequences from empirically generated hypotheses. Inverting these priorities makes science into a pseudo-religion. In religions, revelations of 'truth' take precedence over worldly observations of fact.

"In those scientific circles where the deductive method reigns supreme, theory takes precedence over empirical facts. Albert Einstein reportedly once said: 'If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.'

"Stephen Hawking was frank about his view of the interdependence of reality and theory: 'If what we regard as real depends upon our theory, how can we make reality the basis of our philosophy?.....We cannot distinguish what is real about the universe without a theory......it makes no sense to ask it if it corresponds to reality because we do not know what reality is independent of a theory.' He - and the theoretical physical sciences - apparently failed to notice that the repeated application of the empirical method is how this interdependence is refined and reality becomes known. This oversight (that places deductive assumptions beyond the reach of testability) has gained theoreticians the stature of priests but at the expense of losing touch with reality."

I hope from the above folks can tease out the problems with Wainwright's assertions.
 
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I never liked the idea of ETs creating life here. For one thing, to do that, an alien world would probably have to be about 9 billion years old i.e. twice as old as ours. That's possible, but may not be particularly likely given metallicity issues of Population II. In any event, indigenous origin is more parsimonious. If alien caused life here i.e. if a planet as hospitable to life as Earth couldn't generate its own, then how did ET life originally appear??
 
Just imagine a sci-fi plot those so called metallic balls that just open releasing a fast developing creature which could find dominate species a food source whic the seeders wish to remove.
Such a plot could make for a block buster sy fy horror film. Plot possibilities would be endless.
Someone should throw that idea to the paracast/dark matters guest- Hollywood guy who worked on the film starring Will Smith "I am Legend" -can't think of his name now.
 
Allow me, if I may, to boil this down to the basic essence. Is that "object" real and manufactured ... extruding a biological substance .. or not? If so, where was "it" created ... here or somewhere else? If the "substance" that it is claimed to "spew" is biological ... what in hell is it? What do the scientific tests ( that I assume must be taking place or .. have taken place ) show what this stuff is? Cosmic "jizz" or something else?

Any other questions ( at least for me ) are superfluous at best or a waste of electrons at worst!

Decker
 
Allow me, if I may, to boil this down to the basic essence. Is that "object" real and manufactured ... extruding a biological substance .. or not? If so, where was "it" created ... here or somewhere else? If the "substance" that it is claimed to "spew" is biological ... what in hell is it? What do the scientific tests ( that I assume must be taking place or .. have taken place ) show what this stuff is? Cosmic "jizz" or something else?

Any other questions ( at least for me ) are superfluous at best or a waste of electrons at worst!

Decker

I can find no answers.

A 2013 PBS article stated that the last claim (regarding a diatom) still had one test left:

"isotope fractionation”–which will determine whether the ratio of certain isotopes is consistent with that of organisms from earth

the only references I can find to this test appear in the future tense, but he does have a publication:

"isolation of a diatom frustule"
Journal of Cosmology
http://journalofcosmology.com/JOC22/milton_diatom-1.pdf

I can't get access but you can Google the title to get a lot of criticism of the article and the JOC.

Someone got a pitchfork I can borrow ...?
 
I must admit that when I started this thread imagination started to soar. After reading Dr. John Brandenburg's book "Death on Mars" and hosting him on DMR the entire idea of panspermia really began to gel in my mind. Brandenburg and I discussed the Cambrian explosion 542 million years ago that began on Earth and the concept that perhaps life jump started here, from Mars, because of some type of catastrophe that affected Mars ... and benefited Earth .. my imagination really soared! As to homo sapien sapiens ... well ...

As many of you may know, I was really close to Zecharia Sitchen going back to 1989. I met Sitchin after my first appearance on Larry King Live and over the years we had a very close friendship. His entire Earth Series Chronicles always played into my entire view of the UFO phenomenon. I do not know if he was correct or not with his take on early astronauts ... but I have always felt that the human species very well may have been "toyed with" by ET's. That would also have been a type of paspermia I suppose. The bottom line is, at least as far as I am concerned ... we simply do not know what we don't know. My ultimate fear is ... we probably never will ...

Decker
 
If it is as claimed, its not just panspermia, but likely directed panspermia.

Titanium has a very high melting point, so the chances it could naturally form and contain biological material are slim.
 
If it is as claimed, its not just panspermia, but likely directed panspermia.

Titanium has a very high melting point, so the chances it could naturally form and contain biological material are slim.

Yes, several articles have MW down for directed Panspermia specifically.

This was my argument to @Burnt State as to why we wouldn't just see it everywhere - if it was designed to be here.
 
I must admit that when I started this thread imagination started to soar. After reading Dr. John Brandenburg's book "Death on Mars" and hosting him on DMR the entire idea of panspermia really began to gel in my mind. Brandenburg and I discussed the Cambrian explosion 542 million years ago that began on Earth and the concept that perhaps life jump started here, from Mars, because of some type of catastrophe that affected Mars ... and benefited Earth .. my imagination really soared! As to homo sapien sapiens ... well ...

As many of you may know, I was really close to Zecharia Sitchen going back to 1989. I met Sitchin after my first appearance on Larry King Live and over the years we had a very close friendship. His entire Earth Series Chronicles always played into my entire view of the UFO phenomenon. I do not know if he was correct or not with his take on early astronauts ... but I have always felt that the human species very well may have been "toyed with" by ET's. That would also have been a type of paspermia I suppose. The bottom line is, at least as far as I am concerned ... we simply do not know what we don't know. My ultimate fear is ... we probably never will ...

Decker

Symptoms soaring imagination alternating with bouts of ignorance
Diagnosis The Human Condition
Prognosis chronic, terminal
Treatment/management humor ... don't let the patient harden into a permanent state of cynicism and skepticism

The value of these stories is that they can make us soar ... and sore. Wainwright seems sincere to me and he's kept his day job. Chandra Wickramasinghe has been at this for decades, so I think there there will be another go round from them. I'm rooting for them and I'm rooting for the peer review system.
 
Such a plot could make for a block buster sy fy horror film. Plot possibilities would be endless.
Someone should throw that idea to the paracast/dark matters guest- Hollywood guy who worked on the film starring Will Smith "I am Legend" -can't think of his name now.

Agree and not throwing out any possibility look at the latest leaked Humit release online today about Israel and Iran.
 
If he had anything that was an actual original idea that had merit to support his original contention that he has discovered for the second time that life was seeded here, as opposed to his index of Darwin's ideas, that I would find interesting.

OK, now I have figured something out that is interesting about the Darwin article.

I tagged you in a post on the C&P thread in which the quote:

"we await the next Darwin"

appears.

That made me think about Wainwright and why he would write an article on Darwin and Wallace being anticpated by a nobody, several in fact ... and that made me think the apt comparison is not Nichola Tesla but Patrick Matthews.

He take some pains with Darwin's own correspondence and publication to show Darwin acknowledged the debt and how he downplayed it. Is Wainwright at 65 looking on his legacy not as the next Darwin or even Semmelweis but as the next Patrick Matthews?

(see also Ignaz Semmelweis)
 
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