Do you believe that Grey Aliens Exist?

[mike]

The relationship between the greys and the dead is a topic im very very interested in.

Im of the opinion that the true nature of the greys might be more complex than simply EBE's.

Indeed i think as biological beings we see them through that filter (biological entitys like us), and thus dont really see the real picture.

Ones individual experience set, ones conciousness is the most rare item the universe ever creates.
No two are ever the same, ever.

So i suspect that greys are here doing two things
One is uploading our conciousness, our unique experience sets at death, and the other is upgrading us as a species so we will be able to do this for ourselves.

"Just when will this ultimate life-affirming feat be possible? In Kurzweil's estimation, we will be able to upload the human brain to a computer, capturing "a person's entire personality, memory, skills and history", by the end of the 2030s; humans and non-biological machines will then merge so effectively that the differences between them will no longer matter; and, after that, human intelligence, transformed for the better, will start to expand outward into the universe,"
By 2040 you will be able to upload your brain... - Science - News - The Independent

indeed Kurweil wants to revive his father

"Ray Kurzweil, 61, sincerely believes that his own immortality is a realistic proposition... and just as strongly contends that, using a combination of grave-site DNA and future technologies, he will be able to reclaim his father, Fredric Kurzweil (the victim of a fatal heart attack in 1970), from death."

And while we dont quite have this technology yet, i think the vistors do, and are both using it, and seeding it to us.

The collins elite call it harvesting the soul, and have a negative view towards it, they would prefer a supernatural mechanism for life after death, and thus a technological mechanism is a threat to that worldview.

Add time travel to this scenario, and our native bioforms become a source of DNA that can be used time and time again as a source to create cloned replacement bioforms (greys?) to carry that conciousness.
It might explain why abductions taper off when a person gets older, taking DNA from the young before the DNA is damaged by age, free radicals etc.

I suspect the vast majority of sentient life in the universe is trans/post biological, and that we are being helped to that status by the vistors.

As biological entitys we see EBE's, but once we become transbiological ourselves, then we will see them for what they really are.

I think they have perfected the very same technology Ray Kurzweil is developing, and thats a natural progression of any sentient species to do so, either on their own, or with help from those who have already done so.

Its interesting to note Lorrie Barnes a friend of Whit Strieber recounts an alleged encounter where she says

"Dont touch me, you are too ugly"
"Dont say that" the grey replies
"Why not" says Lorrie

"Because one day you too might look like this..........." it replied

In this context the alleged "we are you from the future" quote, might refer to a very personal future and not a general one for the human species.

 

[stonehart]

I think it is possibly that something like the so called Grey's exist but as has been said certainly not in the way Hollywood portrays them.

Oh and thanks for the Dan Dare correlation there mike... spooky is it not?

Better question to ask me is do I think aliens exist? and my answer would be for sure they do, but are they coming here that is the real question... maybe and maybe not.

 

[exo_doc]

not to derail, but have any of you guys ever seen 5 million years to earth/ quartermass & the Pit ?

I saw that movie at a drive-in in 1972, scared the hell outta me, especially when the British officer got "cooked" and fell over. I think I actually screamed. (Well, I was only 8 at the time, gimme a break)

 

[exo_doc]

Easily one of my all time favourite Hallowe'en movie viewing selections. I watch it at least once a year, sometimes in one of its many earlier serial incarnations from the BBC or i will spin the ultra dystopic final Quatermass installment. The writer, Nigel Kneale, was a television sci fi prophet. This movie explores the ancient alien scenario in such an original and fresh manner. It's part ghost story, part UFO, and part ancient demonology.

I love how the alien as demon migrates across a series of paranormal scenarios and unifies the whole collection of ghosts, ufo's, telepathy, nazis and alien genetic engineering into one very tightly paced and inventive story, sophisticated in its scope and scale. It's got it all!

As for Greys here on earth I would have to ask, outside of indivdual witnesses, what proof is there? We have detailed narratives that stretch from Whitley to Romanek but all we have are stories that have welded their own mythology into our subconscious. Too often the witnesses turn into contactees and the reports involving greys are all about the abduction thing and/or messages of light and terror. The narratives descend into high surreal states that sound like they come from the twilight zone. I question the 100% truth telling as indivudual witnesses and contactees are most likely to fabricate or make reports that maybe just filling in the blanks around what might be some other weird family trauma scenarios.

On the other hand the mass children witness occupant stories from Africa and Australia are quite compelling. What other strong cases involving Greys are there that have better confirmations?

Looks to me like they are at a Disco! The women actually looks like she's laughing!....GOT to see this flick!

 

[Han]

My theory on the origins of the modern grey alien:

First off I would like to say that I am very very far from being an expert on E.T's and I am also a very literalist person (I some times interpret things too literally). Therefore I am sure there will be large holes and flaws with the following theory, that are not obvious to me because as I have already stated, I have not invested in extensive research about E.T's in general. Partly because I have more interest in mysterious animals and partly because they "greys" etc scare me because I have an overactive imagination and fear that I could "create" or manifest them. What I am trying to get at is that this is just my opinion and nothing more, I am afraid I cant provide supporting evidence or sources. I will also try to stay as on topic as I possibly can, but I am aware that my mind often wanders so please forgive me if I do so.

The best place I can think of is to look at the words used to describe the "greys".

"little(1) Grey(2) Aliens(3)" or "little grey space(4) men(5)".

It is my understanding that during the latter stages and after WWII many of the German scientists who had been working on Hitlers "Wunderwaffe" (Wonder Weapons) were captured and some sent to Russia and some to the USA (Operation Paperclip).

These German scientists were sent to various locations in America to further develop and finish some of the projects they had been working on for Hitler.
One of these was the Space Rocket which would become known as "Saturn 5" (of the Apollo mission fame). Which was not dissimilar to a V2. The most famous Scientist (to my knowledge) was wernher von braun who went on to be awarded the "National Medal of Science" (USA) for his work on the moon landings.

My understanding is that the scientists like von braun, were deemed too useful to be tried for war crimes and some of their records were doctored. But it is important to note that they (to my knowledge) did not just get sent out into civilian life, instead they had very strict restrictions imposed on them, in effect they were POW's and had to live on Military bases, partly because they posed a potential threat to national security and partly because (understandably) they were at risk from attack by people angry at the Germans (e.g those who had lost family in the war). I believe that one of the conditions they lived under was that they had to wear "German Uniforms".

If I say "Redcoat" most people will immediately think of the British Uniform that was worn during the American war of independence. Well if you said "grey coat" the first Uniform that springs to my mind is the German one worn during WWII. (I am aware that many other nations soldiers wear and wore Grey also)

I will now to try to tie all this together:

The word "Little"(1) I can remember talking to my grandparents about how when the Americans started to arrive in Britain to help us fight the Axis, one of the things they noticed was how much larger in stature on average the American soldier was when compared to his British counterpart. Their understanding (my grandparents) was that this was due to the fact that nutrition was more easily accessible in the US. I am proposing that the German scientists who were on the American bases seemed small in comparison to their American guards, it is also important to note that when a person is under duress they can seem smaller, it is a kind of natural response to make yourself a smaller target. I am sure that the vital statistics of the said German scientists are available but I have no desire to investigate them (personal reasons).


My opinion is that the word "grey(2)" may refer to three possible options. Firstly it could refer to the uniforms that the captive scientists allegedly (by me) had to wear, the second possibility is that due to the fact that they had and were confined indoors (little to no sunlight) and this resulted in a "greying" of their complexions.
Another factor could be that in descriptive writing "grey" can be used to describe some one who is lacking warmth and vitality: for example:
"Harry always dreaded meeting the bank manager, he was a small grey man, in a small grey office."


The world "Alien(3)" can be used to describe a Foreign national for example:
"there is rising concern about the number of illegal aliens entering the country via freight containers".
The captured scientists being German would be described as "Aliens" due to the fact that they were not US nationals. (some like von braun did eventually become naturalised).


When I consider what kind of projects they (the captured scientists) were working on the word "space(4)" is never far away, this is probably because of the Apollo missions and the von braun connection.

when I see the description of space "men(5)", to my mind it could mean many things but the one that resonates is "men who are involved with space" in a similar way we would say "Airmen"(pilots) or "seamen"(sailors).


My conviction is that one or some of the American guards tasked with supervising the said imprisoned German scientists relayed his or their duties to a trusted family member or friend and this resulted in them describing "little grey aliens" and or "grey spacemen".

This is probably the time to add the concept of the very advanced "technology" that the captured scientists had knowledge of.
Which then makes me think:
"Little grey spacemen with advanced technology" =

Little as in: "meek"

Grey as in: "uniform", "complexion" or "demeanor"

Spacemen as in: "men involved in space"

Advanced technology as in: a Rocket that can travel to space.


For me the clincher is the fact that some of the captured scientists worked on horrendous, inhumane and vile experiments on living people, for example the origins of the space suit.(you can look this up because I find it so horrific I do not wish to describe it)
This is almost exactly the kind of experimentation that is described by "abductees" for example the collection of tissue or bodily fluids.


Too sum it all up:

I think that the "greys" are a convolution of all the factors I have mentioned above, more specifically:

My strong belief is that "greys" are the result of misinterpretation of very real and dubious people like von braun and the work that they were doing.


The final thing I would like to say is that, whilst all of this might explain where the idea came from, it does not detract from the extremely terrifying experiences that people suffer at the hand of "greys" and it actually matters little how "real" or "tangible" they are. Because if people "believe" in them they are "real" (to the experiencer). and are in actual fact more terrifying because of the fact that they cannot be empirically demonstrated to exist(in the traditional sense).

My personal fear of being attacked by a shark has resulted in me being afraid to enter the sea, I cannot imagine how horrific it must be to be afraid to go to sleep, for fear of being "taken" after all we all have to sleep, and according to the lore, "greys" can get you at any place at any time

 

[Stagger Lee]

I think it is possibly that something like the so called Grey's exist but as has been said certainly not in the way Hollywood portrays them.

Oh and thanks for the Dan Dare correlation there mike... spooky is it not?

Better question to ask me is do I think aliens exist? and my answer would be for sure they do, but are they coming here that is the real question... maybe and maybe not.

When you look at such incidents as happened in the early 50's with pilot chases, radar recordings and such- as a recent guest on the 10/20 paracast show says "Any scientist who really studied the data from that period must come to the conclusion that planet earth was/is under observation by someone or something far beyond our technology/understanding"

 

[trainedobserver]

The "naked" Grey alien makes no sense to me at all. The same goes for insect like beings and so forth. What technology using species would be caught dead without pockets?

The Grey alien image has certainly evolved over time. Shoot, Betty Hill's "grey" aliens wore clothes and "hats" and had big noses.

 

[Wade]

I saw that movie at a drive-in in 1972, scared the hell outta me, especially when the British officer got "cooked" and fell over. I think I actually screamed. (Well, I was only 8 at the time, gimme a break)

I first saw it a few years later when it would make a regular appearance on cbs late night movies in mid ,70s...I also liked the dr. Phibes movies.... at any rate as a young kid I was somewhat mystified with the plot...I thought this was about Martians???... but then after watching it as an adult I appreciated the complexities of the elements as burnt state pointed out earlier. I would have liked to have asked nigel kneale (spl?) What his influences were.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I first saw it a few years later when it would make a regular appearance on cbs late night movies in mid ,70s...I also liked the dr. Phibes movies.... at any rate as a young kid I was somewhat mystified with the plot...I thought this was about Martians???... but then after watching it as an adult I appreciated the complexities of the elements as burnt state pointed out earlier. I would have liked to have asked nigel kneale (spl?) What his influences were.

Love, love, LOVE, the British horror/sci fi thing. Quatermass, First Men...I am guilty of having watched both again in the last two years. Phibes RULES. Used to do my level best to stay up and watch any of the Phibes flicks when they would show on the local network at 2am. Theater of Blood was really a good one too. The Conqueror Worm. I'd always fall asleep reading one of my Famous Monsters, or Creepy/Erie mags doing my damnedest to stay up to watch these! Another one that I routinely, even religiously, watched the TV Guide for in the early 70s was Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers. Again, I only seemed to see it listed well after midnight.

 

[exo_doc]

The "naked" Grey alien makes no sense to me at all. The same goes for insect like beings and so forth. What technology using species would be caught dead without pockets?

The Grey alien image has certainly evolved over time. Shoot, Betty Hill's "grey" aliens wore clothes and "hats" and had big noses.

If Greys live exclusively in a constantly controlled environment, why would they need clothing? Or possibly they are Nudists?
Pockets....what would they carry? Thier tech might make such things moot.
Pure speculation of course.

Did Betty Hills aliens look like this?......clothes....hats....big nose.......

I'm such an irritating smart butt sometimes....sorry....

 

[Stagger Lee]

When I think of the "greys" experience, it reminds me of that movie "Dark City" I think it's called, with Keifer Sutherland. In the movie, the human looking creatures control time, and are able to remove a persons identity, or consciousness, and replace it with another person. For example, a white collar business man wakes up one morning not himself, but as a serial killer complete with lifelong memories.
Anyway, the reports of abductees clearly hint at some ability by the creatures(greys) to manipulate time- They also seem to prefer glass, in their ability to "float" the subject through it, out of the house/building.
I like what Jerome Clarke had to say about Bud Hopkins and the respect he held for him and his work. I always believed Hopkins was sincere in his quest to better understand the Abduction Phenom. I can only imagine the time Hopkins would have had to invest in order to weed out all the phoneys, fakes, or those "pretenders" whose only quest was to try and gain Bud's trust in them as an "experiencer" in the hope of being able to step up later and discredit his work, research, or methods. Hopkins, already being a successful artist, had no interest in the ufo phenom until he himself witnessed a saucer. Any proceeds he may have made through the books he released, would hardly be worth the aggravation I'm sure he dealt with on a daily basis. Aside from the one sighting he claimed to have witnessed(with a few others)- we get no fantastic fantasy personal riding unicorns pooping rainbows-(thinking of streiber here)

 

[starise]

I don't believe in greys as aliens from another planet.

 

[Burnt State]

This is the last Nigel Kneale Quatermass TV series - not very flattering for the aliens, or humans really. This is part 1 of a 4 part series - all available on YouTube for your apocalyptic Hallowe'en viewing pleasure.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I don't believe in greys as aliens from another planet.

I really don't either, but find myself accepting their existence as a corollary based on the routine outlines of a protocol that I can find no other assignment for. Their interactions with humanity throughout recorded history, despite their image based cultural metamorphosis, has always supported a propagation of culturally relevant image based information. Apart from as much, all we are reminded of consistently throughout history is that the human experience is subject to their comings and goings at seeming will.

 

[Wade]

When I think of the "greys" experience, it reminds me of that movie "Dark City" I think it's called, with Keifer Sutherland. In the movie, the human looking creatures control time, and are able to remove a persons identity, or consciousness, and replace it with another person. For example, a white collar business man wakes up one morning not himself, but as a serial killer complete with lifelong memories.
Anyway, the reports of abductees clearly hint at some ability by the creatures(greys) to manipulate time- They also seem to prefer glass, in their ability to "float" the subject through it, out of the house/building.)

Very cool analogy, I was going to point this out in another thread. That our identity and our reality may be at the whim of some mister hand

 

[Tyger]

The "naked" Grey alien makes no sense to me at all. The same goes for insect like beings and so forth. What technology using species would be caught dead without pockets?

The Grey alien image has certainly evolved over time. Shoot, Betty Hill's "grey" aliens wore clothes and "hats" and had big noses.

So true.

I recall the very first Star Trek episode in the mid-60's - the actual pilot that had Captain Pike captured by aliens (similar to Greys in externals to an extent) - and so intelligent that they -

- had huge heads
- were sexless
- communicated telepathically
- viewed humans like laboratory animals to be observed and bred

However, true to Roddenberry's essentially benign vision of the universe, these aliens were well-intentioned. Superior intellect meant superior ethics - a la Spock and Vulcans. All would be right with the world with high intellect. Ah, were it so!

 

[Tyger]

My knee-jerk response would be Alistair Crowley's "LAM" in 1918, which is alleged he committed up during one of those "workings " of his.

I had not heard of this and so did a google and came up with this - that also has a facsimile of Crowley's picture. Thank you. I had not been aware of such. Very intriguing - for a whole raft of reasons.

LINK: Aliester Crowley and LAM

Excerpt from the above article -

"At the outbreak of WWI, Crowley set sail from his native England aboard the Lusitania, bound for the USA. Arriving in high spirits, he took up residence in an apartment on New York's bustling West 36th street and there divided his time more or less equally between acts of sex magic and the composition of crackpot pro-German propaganda for The Fatherland. Following an expedition to Vancouver via San Francisco and New Orleans he returned to New York and moved into furnished rooms on Central Park West. Roddie Minor, a married woman living apart from her husband, joined him there circa September/ October 1917 and together they set about exploring the wilder shores of magica sexualis.

"Crowley's personal record for October 1, 1917 describes Minor as "big, muscular, (and) sensual." John Symonds adds that she was "broad-shouldered and pleasant-faced." In addition to these homely attributes, she also possessed a well-developed clairvoyant faculty. Under the influence of hashish and opium she described to Crowley a series of archetypal visions involving (among others) a king, a small boy and a wizard who introduced himself as "Amalantrah"--who delivered exhortations to "find the egg." The reaction of most people would no doubt be to view these accounts as nothing more than drug-induced hallucinations having no wider significance, but Aliester Crowley was no ordinary man. According to Symonds, he "made no attempt to interpret this material in terms of unconsciousness. To him the characters and incidents of mescal visions were more real than anything reality or the ego could provide. He would not have been surprised to meet...Amalantrah strolling up Fifth Avenue. The wizard would have descended onto the plane of illusion, that is all."

"At length, feeling that Amalantrah had nothing further to impart, Crowley decamped for Europe, leaving Roddie Minor to her own devices. But the story doesn't end there. It would be beyond my competence to provide a complete and faithful account of the Amalantrah Working and its aftermath. The last word on the subject will probably never be written. For the purpose of this article I need only observe that Crowley was not interested in ideas for their own sake, but in results. The details are unclear, but it seems that some stage during the proceedings he underwent a form of contactee experience involving a large-headed entity now known to occultists as Lam.

"Lam, (whose name derives from the Tibetan word for "way" or "path") later became the subject of a portrait by Crowley, drawn from life and imbued with a haunting inner quality of its own. The original was first exhibited in New York in 1919 and has been reproduced several times since then, most recently in the third issue of Starfire magazine. Although lacking the crude power of Crowley's more extravagant canvases and murals, it is nevertheless a remarkable piece of work. The subject is depicted in extreme close-up and appears somehow dwarfish, despite the fact that there is no indication of scale in the overall composition. The head is large, smooth and hairless, tapering to a pointed chin. The mouth is slitlike; the eyes extend partways around the sides of the face. There is no suggestion of clothing beyond what appears to be a cloak buttoned at the neck, nor does the entity have any ears. In short, Lam resembles nothing so much as a typical UFO occupant of the "examiner" type (what Americans would call "greys".)

"Crowley's portrait of Lam passed into the hands of Kenneth Grant circa 1945 following an astral working in which he and Crowley were jointly involved. Grant, who was authorized in the early '50s to work the first three grades of the OTO, is now widely perceived as Crowley's natural heir and successor (what a can of worms that statement opens.--ed)."

The article ends with this paragraph -

"In writing this article I have experienced none of the satisfaction from seeing a range of facts fall neatly into place. At the end of it all I am left feeling just as bewildered as ever. In order to assess The Lam Statement fully, it is necessary to consider the possibility that there may indeed be such a thing as genuine alien contact. Is it conceivable that some students of Thelema have indeed established contact with non-human entities? I believe that it is. I am not however, convinced that these entities are necessarily "trans-plutonian". There is a certain amount of evidence (internal consistency, cross-correspondences) to support such a contention, but the matter by its very nature cannot be proved scientifically. No matter. More than anything else, The Lam Statement testifies to the power of the unconscious mind. Translated out of occult terminology into the language of conventional psychology, we can see that it describes a process of self-exploration leading to a greater realization of inner potential. Perhaps this is the best way to view it."

Bolding and emphasis my own.

I am also reminded that I once heard someone observe that what is being described as 'aliens' bear a striking resemblance to the human foetus at a certain stage - and we all saw the image presented in Stanley Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey'.

 

[Tyger]

My theory on the origins of the modern grey alien:

Interesting - have more I could say (but Halloween commences and the wee ones need attention) - but just to say that the German scientists were not generally 'little'. Von Braun was over 6' tall - 6'1" or 6'2". Very commanding - good-looking and well-spoken. Not one to be seen as 'little'. Just thought I'd say. Otherwise a very interesting set of ideas, I think.

 

[mike]

I am also reminded that I once heard someone observe that what is being described as 'aliens' bear a striking resemblance to the human foetus at a certain stage - and we all saw the image presented in Stanley Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey'.

Overall, this corpus presented the appearance of a human embryo of three to four months duration that had been the subject of considerable alteration and modification, some of it obviously surgical. Other modifications, such as that of the brain, were harder to understand. In addition to the alterations, there was the matter of the size of the body and the relatively mature condition of the epidermis and nails. It would appear that this fetus was separated from its mother and brought to a semi-functional state by artificial means.
3. Conclusion
This is a human fetus that has been subjected to forced maturation without normal gestation. Its degree of functionality while living if it ever was alive is unknown.

I can confirm these reports do appear in the book Majestic, and according to the author are fact, presented as fiction to avoid prosecution

Roswell: Autopsy Reports

Which if true might tie in with the suggestion these are manufactured bioforms to house human conciousness

 

[Tyger]

In no way shape or form can I accept that Roswell was ever a genuine ufo event - let alone these autopsies and alien bodies. Hoo-boy! I was there - in the general area more or less - in the 90's when Roswell was starting up it's raison d'etre for a tourist industry. Times were hard and the decision to go with this alien business has wound up being inspired. When it comes to Roswell I am a dyed-in-the-wool skeptic. It's become part of the 'bible' in the ufology world I am finding - and that is disheartening to me.

What Teller says about patterns (we take for granted a repetition is a real repetition) and intent is very significant for what passes for 'alien facts' in the ufo world (and for tons of stuff in the paranormal world) IMO -
LINK: