Dowsing

[Graphimancer]

Strangely, I personally don't care too much why this works. It works well, is very accurate and repeatable, and does it's job. I don't have to understand why it works anymore than I understand exactly how, say, telephones work. Even if I didn't understand telephones, I wouldn't be much troubled, and I'd still use them. Dowsing hardly seems to qualify as paranormal if everyone can do it.

 

[pixelsmith]

my ability to find utility lines is actuality. try not to confuse and manipulate things you know nothing about.

 

[Seth]

I don't have to understand why it works anymore than I understand exactly how, say, telephones work.

It is a good thing the great thinkers before us did not have the same mindset or we would currently be without phones or forums to speak of such things. Sorry kids, but when it comes to topics of things that are not understood, I think man has an inherent responsibility to investigate and discover the root of the matter. The promotion of ignorance due to lack of initiative I agree is commonplace, but we are lucky to have those willing to investigate beyond face value.

my ability to find utility lines is actuality. try not to confuse and manipulate things you know nothing about.

At least we agree I know nothing about dowsing. I suspect you do not either. All I want is an explanation on how it works without people making up mysterious “energies”.

You know, the original post asked for credibility. My stance is that this topic has no credibility based on scientific study and is therefore not credible. Can you offer more than anecdotal stories and belief? In order to say this is a credible we need evidence.

 

[Jose Collado]

I love the whole "energy" argument. No one is able to actually explain what type of energy. Isn't energy a unit of measure?

We set up a rig that held 2 rods on the show to try and get the same results on a unmanned rig and a person holding rods. We anticipated that people would argue that the unmanned rig wouldn't work because it requires the person's "energy" from their body. Se we built the rig with a certain metal that is highly conductive and had someone hold the rig.

The rig was heavy and fixed to the table. We put laser and multi axis spirit levels (no pun intended) on it to give us visual cues. We had one person hold rods in their hands and shielded them from view of the rig. We asked the same questions as per usual. Got responses with the hand held rods and nothing on the rig. We repeated this several times over a period of time and then swapped the people around. Next, we were going to put sensors on both the rig and on the person holding the rods which measured general movement via telemetry but we never got that far ahead.

I have seen people use these devices. I have seen people get responses. I have used them myself and manipulated them very easily. It's just strange that the spirits didn't want to communicate with the person holding the rig.

 

[Poi]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I think the idea behind dowsing is that the rods react to what the person already knows (and doesn't know she/he knows) and has nothing to do with spirits.

Of course the one claim, while having nothing to do with the other, is still pretty dicey.

 

[Seth]

I love the whole "energy" argument. No one is able to actually explain what type of energy. Isn't energy a unit of measure?

Kind of...energy is measured in joules, typically.

The energy moving the rod IS quantifiable if the rods IS moving. You see, the rods cannot move without energy input of some type. Now the question is, does some mysterious unknown energy move the rods or is it a form of known energy: chemical, electrical, thermal, radiant, mechanical, or nuclear?

Because studies have shown the outcomes of dowsing to be identical to chance, the type of energy input may point to the real source.

If no paranormal influence existed we would expect a probability exactly that of chance, like in any other experiement. Because we see an outcome equal to that of chance the hypothesis that dowsing rods are influenced by outside "energies" is a faulty assumption based on the results. If actual mysterious energies existed, a legitimate dowsing experiement would show a greater than chance outcome.

So what's moving the rods? It is so simple: the person holding them, duh!!! The person holding the rod is the only variable not accounted for.

An Aside:
When people dump a lot of credibility in debunked topics like dowsing and defend them though they have been proven hoaxes the entire paranormal field suffers. Look at what folks like Meier and Geller have done. They are defamed charlatins that cause people to not take the paranormal seriously. Dowsing is shit and needs to die.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Sorry buddy, despite your protestations and angst about dowsing, it aint gonna die!!

 

[Graphimancer]

I don't have to understand why it works anymore than I understand exactly how, say, telephones work.

It is a good thing the great thinkers before us did not have the same mindset or we would currently be without phones or forums to speak of such things. Sorry kids, but when it comes to topics of things that are not understood, I think man has an inherent responsibility to investigate and discover the root of the matter. The promotion of ignorance due to lack of initiative I agree is commonplace, but we are lucky to have those willing to investigate beyond face value.

Man, how myopic can we get? Just because I don't choose to study every bit of technology that I use, you assume that I don't advance my own field? People amaze me. You assume someone is not a "great thinker" because they don't reinvent everything every generation? BS. Tell Einstein that his contributions were useless because he didn't first re-invent all the physics that came before, right or wrong.:

 

[Graphimancer]

An Aside:
When people dump a lot of credibility in debunked topics like dowsing and defend them though they have been proven hoaxes the entire paranormal field suffers. Look at what folks like Meier and Geller have done. They are defamed charlatins that cause people to not take the paranormal seriously. Dowsing is shit and needs to die.

I'm fine with your take on it, even though I don't agree, until you dive into the "Dowsing is shit and needs to die." You should be able to disagree respectfully, not toss everyone else into the shitpile just because you don't like what they believe.

 

[Seth]

I'm fine with your take on it, even though I don't agree, until you dive into the "Dowsing is shit and needs to die." You should be able to disagree respectfully, not toss everyone else into the shitpile just because you don't like what they believe.

True I got a little zealous there...I am capable of rephrasing so whittle feelings are not hurt, "Dowsing as a topic wrought with hucksters, new agers, and people wanting to be cool for an ability that isn't real. They substitute belief, energy, auras, and tradition for hard scientific fact: the claims are unsubstantiated in numerous trials equal to that of chance. This aspect of the paranormal field (dowsing as a legitimate subject) needs to be eliminated."

Belief is understanding something to be true though no evidence supports it. Separate that from fact and you see why believing in dowsing is similar to believing in the toothfairy.

 

[Seth]

Sorry buddy, despite your protestations and angst about dowsing, it aint gonna die!!

I know that, friend. That is why I am nearly spent on this thread!

 

[Graphimancer]

"Belief is understanding something to be true though no evidence supports it. Separate that from fact and you see why believing in dowsing is similar to believing in the toothfairy."

To be honest, I think that faith, not belief. You can believe in true things too.