Dr. Leir's Alien Implants - My Thoughts

[marduk]

Mike my point was that if your theory is true, there should be a continuation of clues associated with the UFO or AAP phenomena driving us down the merging of human and machine intelligence.

I'm well aware of the scientific breakthroughs, but they seem to be driven by real people in real labs as a natural progression of existing technology and theory...

 

[mike]

Guys it looks like you missed my caveat, im not claiming this as fact.
But i am suggesting that IF it were happening, then what we are seeing here on earth right now might be consistant with that

That being a subtle program to induce the technological knowledge in us necessary for cultural parity with them

The New York Times best-selling author of PHYSICS OF THE IMPOSSIBLE, PHYSICS OF THE FUTURE and HYPERSPACEtackles the most fascinating and complex object in the known universe: the human brain.
For the first time in history, the secrets of the living brain are being revealed by a battery of high tech brain scans devised by physicists. Now what was once solely the province of science fiction has become a startling reality. Recording memories, telepathy, videotaping our dreams, mind control, avatars, and telekinesis are not only possible; they already exist.

THE FUTURE OF THE MINDgives us an authoritative and compelling look at the astonishing research being done in top laboratories around the world—all based on the latest advancements in neuroscience and physics. One day we might have a "smart pill" that can enhance our cognition; be able to upload our brain to a computer, neuron for neuron; send thoughts and emotions around the world on a "brain-net"; control computers and robots with our mind; push the very limits of immortality; and perhaps even send our consciousness across the universe.

Dr. Kaku takes us on a grand tour of what the future might hold, giving us not only a solid sense of how the brain functions but also how these technologies will change our daily lives. He even presents a radically new way to think about "consciousness" and applies it to provide fresh insight into mental illness, artificial intelligence and alien consciousness.

With Dr. Kaku's deep understanding of modern science and keen eye for future developments, THE FUTURE OF THE MIND is a scientific tour de force--an extraordinary, mind-boggling exploration of the frontiers of neuroscience.

but they seem to be driven by real people in real labs as a natural progression of existing technology and theory

Which would be entirely consistant with my earlier opinion that It would be desirable for the target society to think they had developed this stuff inhouse.
Humans are having enough trouble with the transhuman idea as it is, whole blogs decrying its unnatural and terrifying (to some) potential.
Add the word alien to this, and the paranoia factor breaks the meter.

Could it be done this way......?

They have been studying how a functional magnetic resonance machine (FMRI) can ‘induce’ knowledge in someone through their visual cortex by sending signals that change their brain activity pattern

This process is called Decoded Neurofeedback, or ‘DecNef’

No medication is needed and the subject doesn’t even have to be awake, he or she simply has their brain activity changed to a ‘target’ pattern, which could be anything from that of a star footballer to a master chess player.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2072177/Learning-skills-like-characters-The-Matrix-set-reality-say-scientists.html#ixzz2wXiPxqnu

Again all consistant with the narrative.

Not absolute proof that it is happening, but consistant with the narrative

Aliens:
Telepathy (technological based as we are developing)
Hive mind (sharing of direct brain data, yep we can do that now at the proof of concept phase)
Crew being part of the crafts control system (yes we have implants that can do that now, basic stuff but proof of concept)

Research into the long researched brain-computer interface (BCI) – also known as the 'mind-machine' interface – is becoming so advanced that it's set to create a whole new symbiotic relationship between man and machine.
It could even lead to a situation where speech is rendered useless, and people wirelessly communicate through universal translator chips

The future of brain-computer interfaces revealed | News | TechRadar

First human brain-to-brain interface allows remote control over the internet, telepathy coming soon

First human brain-to-brain interface allows remote control over the internet, telepathy coming soon | ExtremeTech

The parallels between the ET narratives, and our own technological advances, are entirely consistant with the theory of cultural uplift.

Again not proof that its happening, but if it were as i suggest it is, that too is consistant with the idea we need to believe we did it on our own

IF the alleged narrative surrounding ET and its allegedly observed abilitys is true, keeping in mind these observations were made BEFORE we had this technology.
Then this technology taken to its obvious degree of sophistication will make us more like them than we are now.

Again consistant with the theory we are being uplifted to parity, not proof of it, but consistant with the idea none the less

 

[mike]

What you cant say is "If ET is seeding us with technology, why are we not seeing any signs of it here, why are we not seeing technology that allows for telepathy, direct mental control of machinery, hive mind shared experience set potentials"

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Guys it looks like you missed my caveat, im not claiming this as fact.
But i am suggesting that IF it were happening, then what we are seeing here on earth right now might be consistant with that

That being a subtle program to induce the technological knowledge in us necessary for cultural parity with them




but they seem to be driven by real people in real labs as a natural progression of existing technology and theory

Which would be entirely consistant with my earlier opinion that It would be desirable for the target society to think they had developed this stuff inhouse.
Humans are having enough trouble with the transhuman idea as it is, whole blogs decrying its unnatural and terrifying (to some) potential.
Add the word alien to this, and the paranoia factor breaks the meter.

Could it be done this way......?



Again all consistant with the narrative.

Not absolute proof that it is happening, but consistant with the narrative

Aliens:
Telepathy (technological based as we are developing)
Hive mind (sharing of direct brain data, yep we can do that now at the proof of concept phase)
Crew being part of the crafts control system (yes we have implants that can do that now, basic stuff but proof of concept)

Research into the long researched brain-computer interface (BCI) – also known as the 'mind-machine' interface – is becoming so advanced that it's set to create a whole new symbiotic relationship between man and machine.
It could even lead to a situation where speech is rendered useless, and people wirelessly communicate through universal translator chips

The future of brain-computer interfaces revealed | News | TechRadar

First human brain-to-brain interface allows remote control over the internet, telepathy coming soon

First human brain-to-brain interface allows remote control over the internet, telepathy coming soon | ExtremeTech

The parallels between the ET narratives, and our own technological advances, are entirely consistant with the theory of cultural uplift.

Again not proof that its happening, but if it were as i suggest it is, that too is consistant with the idea we need to believe we did it on our own

IF the alleged narrative surrounding ET and its allegedly observed abilitys is true, keeping in mind these observations were made BEFORE we had this technology.
Then this technology taken to its obvious degree of sophistication will make us more like them than we are now.

Again consistant with the theory we are being uplifted to parity, not proof of it, but consistant with the idea none the less

ROTFLMAO!!!!!! I went on and on about this on UFO Updates and it just went over people's heads. Mostly because people don't want the telepathy to be via technology. They want "naturally evolved telepathy", even though no species on earth has been proven to communicate effectively with such, assuming it even exists. Again, this is because most people in the UFO field are not "UFO people." They are "paranormal people."

Yes, I strongly believe that BCI will set the stage for true technological telepathy. I also feel that there is a large percentage of the population that has no idea what is coming, technology-wise, in the future and may not be even able to handle it because their brains are firmly trapped in prior decades.

People really need to snap out of it. The estimate is that the human brain will be reverse engineered by 2020. The next step after reverse engineering is recreating it artificially in a computer. The estimate is that by 2045 we will "artificial brains" that will be placed in robotic bodies giving the robots human-level intelligence. The youngins' in the UFO will probably live to see this. There's a lot of criticism leveled against the "Technological Singularity" but it's going to happen. I say this because it's happened time and again in the past. An invention is made that forever changes human development. Fire, language, the wheel, agriculture, these four things were all "singularities" and forever changed who we were. Most, and I as well, believe that the creation of advanced A.I., on par with humans will be the invention that sets off the next singularity. The intelligence of humans is bound by the size of the skull. An advanced A.I. could increase it's intelligence exponentially until it is rapidly 2, 4, 8, 16, 32.....to thousands if not millions of times more intelligent than a human being. At that point the game is over. Humans lost. The only way to compete is to become the gods we create, to merge with them. This is our future. This is the future nearly everyone has already chosen. In the future you will be downloading apps in your brain and not on your phone.

 

[marduk]

Ah, the singularity a-la Kurzwiel. It may happen.

Or of course, then again, it may not.

You see: sufficient flops does not necessitate intelligence. Just because we have sufficient processing capacity to simulate a human brain does not mean that that simulation will become conscious.

The question is a simple one: is consciousness an emergent property of complexity, or not?

I for one think it is, but we have yet to see.

There are also natural limits on growth: like viral populations growing geometrically before hitting their fundamental limits; there are quite clear fundamental limits on computation that have not yet been crossed.

Take, for example, the simple scalability problem in parallel processing. 2 processors working in parallel are not equivalent to doubling one processor working alone. It's slightly less because of overhead. The problem actually grows as you scale out processors in parallel, so adding more hardware doesn't always help computation.
Scalability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plus, there's a fundamental heat limit on computation (Landauer's principle). Reversible computing may or may not help here.

Anyhoo, there are several limiting factors on computation that we have not yet solved. It is true at current growth rates our desktop computer will be able to simulate the human brain.

Whether it can simulate the human brain anywhere approaching real time, or in any meaningful manner, or if processing power will continue to scale in this manner or whether this will lead to artificial intelligence is another matter.

The typical human brain has about 12o billion neurons according to the best estimates we can muster. A good reference for mammals:

My point is that a macaque is not necessarily 10% as smart as a human because it has 10% of the neurons (the hardware). If this were true, whales may be the smartest things on earth. But guess what: in the ways that we think of intelligence, they aren't. My suspicion is that there's some pretty fancy software tricks happening to create sentience.

I'm a fan of Kurzweil, but there's a lot of fundamental handwaving and winking going on.

 

[Constance]

None of which is proof that we are being seeded with this tech, im not claiming that

But if it is happening, IF, then the above is what you might expect to be seeing as a result
Its not proof, but it might be consistant with such an alleged scenario

Indeed. Who knows how many of the advancements you listed above, and others of a biologically adaptive nature, were originally seeded? It's within the realm of possibility that Leir suspected or even knew this to be the case, and that his invitation of abductees who suspected (or saw x-ray evidence of) implants to come to him for surgical removal -- and his subsequent propagation of his research -- constituted a private initiative to encourage disclosure. It might be that despite the beneficial uses of some of this technology we ought nevertheless to be suspicious of it considering its possible {unknown} source. We don't actually know for what purpose such 'gifts' might be given to our species. I am in general opposed to the whole drive toward the AI Singularity and the replacement of our naturally evolved species with post-biological somethings.

 

[mike]

While i dont doubt AI or as its perhaps better described SI (synthetic intellect)

Synthetic intelligence (SI) is an alternative term for artificial intelligence which emphasizes that the intelligence of machines need not be an imitation or any way artificial; it can be a genuine form of intelligence.[1][2] John Haugeland proposes an analogy with simulated diamonds and synthetic diamonds—only the synthetic diamond is truly a diamond.[1] Synthetic means that which is produced by synthesis; combining parts to form a whole, colloquially, a man-made version of that which has arisen naturally. As defined, a "synthetic intelligence" would therefore be man-made, but not a simulation.

Is a valid part of this hypothesis, in the context of implants its not essential to the discussion.

As per Dr kaku's blurb

For the first time in history, the secrets of the living brain are being revealed by a battery of high tech brain scans devised by physicists. Now what was once solely the province of science fiction has become a startling reality. Recording memories, telepathy, videotaping our dreams, mind control, avatars, and telekinesis are not only possible; they already exist.

THE FUTURE OF THE MIND gives us an authoritative and compelling look at the astonishing research being done in top laboratories around the world—all based on the latest advancements in neuroscience and physics

The technologys in question "already exist" are in fact our "startling reality".
Proof of concept baby steps yes, but from such humble beginnings are all our more refined technologys today, from computers that took up whole floors in a building to calculate a tiny fraction of the function a hand held device can now do.
From the wright flyer to the space shuttle

I find it interesting that some accounts in the narrative claim that UFO's were controlled by the pilots mentally, that they were in fact an integral part of the control mechanism.

And this

The Mind Controlled UFO - Hammacher Schlemmer
or
The Jedi Mind Control Game - Hammacher Schlemmer

DNA switch developed to interface living organisms with computers

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Mike,

I believe that was Corso who suggested that, or was one of the main people to have suggested that. However, I think we need to be open to other possibilities as well, such as the beings not being in control or the craft and beings being a system-based organism of sort, with the beings existing as mere extensions of the craft's "mind" so to speak. Like an A.I. made cyborg puppets for itself. The beings could possess some rudimentary consciousness on their own and could be "taken over" by the A.I. at will.

FYI: Synthetic and Artificial are synonyms.

As far as "the grays" go, I'm pretty sure that if they exist they would be examples of advanced cyborgs. I think their telepathy is a big clue that they have this technology incorporated into their being.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Indeed. Who knows how many of the advancements you listed above, and others of a biologically adaptive nature, were originally seeded? It's within the realm of possibility that Leir suspected or even knew this to be the case, and that his invitation of abductees who suspected (or saw x-ray evidence of) implants to come to him for surgical removal -- and his subsequent propagation of his research -- constituted a private initiative to encourage disclosure. It might be that despite the beneficial uses of some of this technology we ought nevertheless to be suspicious of it considering its possible {unknown} source. We don't actually know for what purpose such 'gifts' might be given to our species. I am in general opposed to the whole drive toward the AI Singularity and the replacement of our naturally evolved species with post-biological somethings.

There's no need to be shy about it. If this is true we are in a very slow assimilation program. As far as being opposed to the Singularity an the development of A.I., there are two types of choices. The first choice is the conscious choice. The second choice is the unconscious choice. Both are valid. Most people today do not realize they have already unconsciously agreed to travel this path.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Ah, the singularity a-la Kurzwiel. It may happen.

Or of course, then again, it may not.

You see: sufficient flops does not necessitate intelligence. Just because we have sufficient processing capacity to simulate a human brain does not mean that that simulation will become conscious.

The question is a simple one: is consciousness an emergent property of complexity, or not?

I for one think it is, but we have yet to see.

There are also natural limits on growth: like viral populations growing geometrically before hitting their fundamental limits; there are quite clear fundamental limits on computation that have not yet been crossed.

Take, for example, the simple scalability problem in parallel processing. 2 processors working in parallel are not equivalent to doubling one processor working alone. It's slightly less because of overhead. The problem actually grows as you scale out processors in parallel, so adding more hardware doesn't always help computation.
Scalability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plus, there's a fundamental heat limit on computation (Landauer's principle). Reversible computing may or may not help here.

Anyhoo, there are several limiting factors on computation that we have not yet solved. It is true at current growth rates our desktop computer will be able to simulate the human brain.

Whether it can simulate the human brain anywhere approaching real time, or in any meaningful manner, or if processing power will continue to scale in this manner or whether this will lead to artificial intelligence is another matter.

The typical human brain has about 12o billion neurons according to the best estimates we can muster. A good reference for mammals:

My point is that a macaque is not necessarily 10% as smart as a human because it has 10% of the neurons (the hardware). If this were true, whales may be the smartest things on earth. But guess what: in the ways that we think of intelligence, they aren't. My suspicion is that there's some pretty fancy software tricks happening to create sentience.

I'm a fan of Kurzweil, but there's a lot of fundamental handwaving and winking going on.

We are already have quantum computers. Also, Kurzweil didn't invent the notion of the Singularity and I do not agree with everything he claims. He doesn't own the concept but for some reason many people assume he does. It's not going to be perfect and absolutely wonderful. Kurzweil doesn't address what will happen if the elite hoard this technology to themselves. He doesn't address how the government repressing the technology in general could effect the situation.

In reality we don't know what lies on the other side of the Singularity. It could be blessing or a curse, or both. Humanity may go extinct or go extinct by transforming into something other than human, posthuman.

Even though we don't know what lies beyond, I think our species is going to fracture and send of shoots in multiple pursuits. Some will go the genetic manipulation route. Some will go cyborg. Some will upload their minds into machines. Hopefully some group of posthumans will keep a small remnant of normal, non-enhanced humans around so that humanity can be seeded again on a new planet and the entire thing can then repeat, perhaps over and over again ad infinitum.

 

[mike]

Mike,

I believe that was Corso who suggested that, or was one of the main people to have suggested that. However, I think we need to be open to other possibilities as well, such as the beings not being in control or the craft and beings being a system-based organism of sort, with the beings existing as mere extensions of the craft's "mind" so to speak. Like an A.I. made cyborg puppets for itself. The beings could possess some rudimentary consciousness on their own and could be "taken over" by the A.I. at will.

FYI: Synthetic and Artificial are synonyms.

As far as "the grays" go, I'm pretty sure that if they exist they would be examples of advanced cyborgs. I think their telepathy is a big clue that they have this technology incorporated into their being.

Personally i prefer SI as per the distinction i posted

SI) is an alternative term for artificial intelligence which emphasizes that the intelligence of machines need not be an imitation or any way artificial; it can be a genuine form of intelligence.

My PBH (post biological hypothesis) has an added twist, which i may as well repost here

If SI is the natural evolutionary path for intelligence, then we as native biological intellegence may be a minority, a less evolved form of intellect, in a galaxy populated by the more evolutionary advanced SI's

The majority of intellect inhabiting the galaxy/universe being SI in nature as per Davies theory

"I think it very likely -in fact inevitable-that biological intelligence is only a transitory phenomenon, a fleeting phase in the evolution of intelligence in the universe."
Paul Davies -acclaimed physicist, cosmologist, and astrobiologist at Arizona State University

Most likely, Paul Davies is right. Nevertheless, there exists a possibility for this marvelous intelligence to morph into immortality, by achieving independence from its current container, which is the human body and the communications and thought processing device, which is the Brain. There are several persons who are already on the path leading towards the possibility of transference of the ME or ID energy field to an adequate field container

But how would such an entity/s reproduce should it desire to do so ?
It could copy itself, but thats a bit like playing chess in the mirror

One option would be to recreate the circumstances of its own creation.

Seed a planet with suitable biological progenitors, tweak them to the point they can create their own technology and finally their own SI's

In this way a unique SI could be created in the image of its creators, with its own unique "flavour"

We may just be the factory workers, not the final product being built.

 

[marduk]

Kurzweil doesn't address what will happen if the elite hoard this technology to themselves. He doesn't address how the government repressing the technology in general could effect the situation.

I see your point, but that would probably be a very temporary situation.

If the tech exists, it's gonna get cheaper. It's the nature of technology. Cost per flop geometrically goes down. It will hit a boundary or it won't. If it doesn't, what is a super-fancy-NSA-AI-otron for a billion dollars today will cost $1000 in a decade. It's the way things are.

In reality we don't know what lies on the other side of the Singularity. It could be blessing or a curse, or both. Humanity may go extinct or go extinct by transforming into something other than human, posthuman.

Even though we don't know what lies beyond, I think our species is going to fracture and send of shoots in multiple pursuits. Some will go the genetic manipulation route. Some will go cyborg. Some will upload their minds into machines. Hopefully some group of posthumans will keep a small remnant of normal, non-enhanced humans around so that humanity can be seeded again on a new planet and the entire thing can then repeat, perhaps over and over again ad infinitum.

I hear you -- most likely it's going to be both, if it in fact exists.

As for the cycles of time, interesting idea, but one I lead to re-runs of BSG.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Mike, the term "artificial" does not imply that such is not intelligent. It just implies that it is created by man and did not naturally arise. So I personally don't see any difference between using "artificial intelligence" vs. "synthetic intelligence" as both mean man-made.

As to your other part, I already stated it here, it may be a continuous loop, where organic being like ourselves evolve into posthumans, which then save specimens of non-enhanced humans, giving them their own planet where they can evolve and become posthumans, repeated ad infinitum.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

I see your point, but that would probably be a very temporary situation.

If the tech exists, it's gonna get cheaper. It's the nature of technology. Cost per flop geometrically goes down. It will hit a boundary or it won't. If it doesn't, what is a super-fancy-NSA-AI-otron for a billion dollars today will cost $1000 in a decade. It's the way things are.



I hear you -- most likely it's going to be both, if it in fact exists.

As for the cycles of time, interesting idea, but one I lead to re-runs of BSG.

LOL...BSG based it on this theory. I'm not the first to propose it. An author, whose name I can't remember, wrote a story about a civilization that cycles back and forth between organic and machine-based.

 

[trainedobserver]

LOL...BSG based it on this theory. I'm not the first to propose it. An author, whose name I can't remember, wrote a story about a civilization that cycles back and forth between organic and machine-based.

One of the big questions is whether humanity (or any other species for that matter) can realistically dodge extinction caused by species aging long enough to artificially evolve itself into something else. Bill Gaede argues that humanity is already sliding under the maul. Be sure to watch the two or three videos in the series. Like he ironically puts it, "Food for thought." Good old Bill.

 

[Constance]

There's no need to be shy about it. If this is true we are in a very slow assimilation program.

There's considerable suggestive as well as tangible evidence that we are. If so, we all need to become aware of the possibilities and the potentialities.

As far as being opposed to the Singularity and the development of A.I., there are two types of choices. The first choice is the conscious choice. The second choice is the unconscious choice. Both are valid. Most people today do not realize they have already unconsciously agreed to travel this path.

I don't think we can speak in terms of 'agreement' with traveling this path since agreement implies understanding of all that is and will be involved in it -- how it will affect life, mind, and values on this planet if it progresses. We can speak, as you suggest, of the unconsciousness of most peoples' apparent choice to play with the sci-fi memes and toys celebrated in popular culture, which reflect on a superficial level the deeper reality of the ongoing technologizing and alienation of our social and individual lives. If anything, these memes and toys are being sold to us as a means of 'naturalizing' the prospect of a quantum jump in our own denaturalization.

 

[Constance]

One of the big questions is whether humanity (or any other species for that matter) can realistically dodge extinction caused by species aging long enough to artificially evolve itself into something else.

Is there a good reason why we should attempt to dodge the extinction of our species? What sterling qualities do you think we have to offer the rest of the universe/cosmos given our obvious inability to conduct our social and economic lives in rational and beneficial ways, among ourselves and including other life in our planetary ecosystem?

 

[Constance]

Mike, the term "artificial" does not imply that such is not intelligent. It just implies that it is created by man and did not naturally arise. So I personally don't see any difference between using "artificial intelligence" vs. "synthetic intelligence" as both mean man-made.

As to your other part, I already stated it here, it may be a continuous loop, where organic being like ourselves evolve into posthumans, which then save specimens of non-enhanced humans, giving them their own planet where they can evolve and become posthumans, repeated ad infinitum.

Sounds like "playing chess in the mirror," to borrow an analogy used by Mike above.

 

[mike]

Mike, the term "artificial" does not imply that such is not intelligent. It just implies that it is created by man and did not naturally arise. So I personally don't see any difference between using "artificial intelligence" vs. "synthetic intelligence" as both mean man-made.

.

Some do some dont, i agree


Synthetic intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally i agree with the argument in the link above that SI is the better term to use, but the article does also say its a matter of semantics and with a degree of contention

 

[mike]

Sounds like "playing chess in the mirror," to borrow an analogy used by Mike above.

There is of course a massive variable in the equation if we use a new planet, with new ecological conditions, letting the DNA adapt to this environment to create a novel species/society/s
There would be enough difference in the creation process to ensure the emergent SI was novel in its inception and not simply a copy of its creator

If its personality comes from the uploaded experiences of its creator species, then it must be novel in nature.
Our individual experience sets are unique, there are no two the same in the whole of existance.
Were i to reduce your memories, your experience set to code, no two patterns would/could ever be the same.
An SI that simply copys its architecture is just that a copy a clone, finding a new sentient species and nudging them to create a SI, ensures the resulting enity is novel, with the unique "flavour" of the species that birthed it

Personally i would look for new presentient species and uplift them for the purpose, but a SI society might still keep a remnant native bioform population (for as long as it could) to use as Biofarms to source the materiel to create optimised replicant biovessels for those SI nodes who want/need to use them.

But if SI is the inevitable evolutionary end of any sentient strain, then eventually the biological progenitors will be phased out

Native bioforms are flawed, the evolutionary process works reasonably well, but is still flawed.
A designed for the task bio replicant body is going to be superior, in the same way a concord is superior to the condor in terms of task.

Given the extreemly long term pov an SI would have, it seems only logical to just seed as many nursery planets as it could with DNA and let nature take its course, rather than trying to extend the duration of its own biological progenitors.

A form of cosmic crop rotation if you like.

The physical nature the native bioforms take in response to the different ecological factors of the nursery planets is far less important that the potential for sentience, thats the crop being sown