Ed Dames remote views Fossett's crash site

[Aspie]

There's £88 million up for grabs this Friday in the Euro Lottery. So come on psychics/remote viewers, post the winning numbers here before the draw on Friday and we might start believing in you.

 

[BrandonD]

I have no doubt that our potential is untapped, what I do doubt is that there's anyone out there who is any more advanced than anyone else in this regard. Change does not come quickly. Give it another 100 years or so, and we might see some small advances in the human mind, but I'm not holding my breath.

If you know someone who's psychic, test them. It's pretty simple. Do the Zener card thing. Lay them out on a table, then tell your friend to remote view them. If they can't give you the proper order, then that means they're not psychic. IF they do get it right, then simply do the experiment 3 more times, with the cards in different orders.

Then after you've done it enough times, with the double blind thing, 100 should suffice, look at the percentage of accuracy. Then compare that to what is considered random, versus what is called a hit, and you should have a pretty good idea that more often than not people are simply not imbued with that ability.

Ah then I might be misunderstanding you. I agree that one should approach every claimant of controlled psychic powers as if they are fraudulent/misguided until proven otherwise. But since you said "bunko and BS" and cited James Randi, I got the impression that you actually consider psychic ability itself as false. Which is a belief and not a fact by any means.

You consider your tests above as "scientific" and absolute for proving psychic powers, when they actually aren't either. Which is the reason I mentioned that instrument story, to illustrate this typically American assumption that if someone can't duplicate something right here and now, sitting in front of his TV, eating his chips, then it can't be done.

 

[BrandonD]

You consider your tests above as "scientific" and absolute for proving psychic powers, when they actually aren't either.

I think I should be more specific here: What I mean is that the tests you cited can successfully disprove a person who claims to have "controlled" psychic powers, but it does nothing to debunk the idea of psychic abilities.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

You should have paid a bit more money for your education and gotten a decent one. If you had you would have known to do your research BEFORE you took an Ed Dames course.

Inject emotion into the debate???
YOU were the only one to inject any emotion into this debate, albeit a negative one. There was none until you entered it with your moaning and complaining about psychics.The only feeling i have for you in this debate is pity.
Proof??
Even if you were given proof you wouldn't accept it because if James Randii (his botanical name) says there are no psychics, then it must be true!
Nobody has to prove anything to you Tommy. Psychics have been around before you were born and they will be around way after you die.

And stop lying about you being bitter. Go read your own posts. Stop lying to yourself and get over it, get over yourself!!!
Only liars call others liars because they have no argument in the first place!

 

[Tommy Allison]

Brandon.

Just so you understand, I'm open to the possibility that people are capable of anything, I've seen some pretty amazing stuff, but when you pare away all the amazement, it comes down to one thing.

If you are a psychic, and claim to see things, or whatever, You need to prove that you are not just getting lucky.

I'm a pretty damned good guesser, but does it mean I have psychic powers? No it doesn't. Now if I were to say you had a favorite Star Wars action figure, that's getting more involved, but if you're my age, chances are you had Star Wars action figures that you lost in a sandbox.

Now if I tell you the name of your dog, and how, and when your dog passed away, that's one thing, but if I tell you that your dog is specifically a Samoyed, and it turns out to be a terrier, that's something altogether different.

Being psychic, or making claims of being psychic, has to be provable before they should be taken seriously. Like if I said I remote viewed the number pi, and now have the ability to pick the lottery numbers like Aaron C. Donahue has, I better be able to pick them, and not just the 3 number lotteries, because ANYONE can pick that on any given day and come close.

People like Ed Dhames gets nearly nothing right. Why is that? Is it because he's not good at it, or is it the fact that he has NO ability what so ever? Well, it's because he has no ability what so ever, like so many who claim to have the powers, and is taking you and your money for a ride.

I have a very simple test for any would be Remote Viewers out there. It's not a hard test if you're a remote viewer.

I have a table, a large table that I have put 5 zener cards on the top of it. Tell me what they are and in what order. If any would be remote viewer gets it right, I'll be happy to admit that remote viewing exists, and take back all the nasty things I've said about frauds like Ed Dhames, and Aaron Donahue.

 

[Tommy Allison]

You should have paid a bit more money for your education and gotten a decent one. If you had you would have known to do your research BEFORE you took an Ed Dames course.

Inject emotion into the debate???
YOU were the only one to inject any emotion into this debate, albeit a negative one. There was none until you entered it with your moaning and complaining about psychics.The only feeling i have for you in this debate is pity.
Proof??
Even if you were given proof you wouldn't accept it because if James Randii (his botanical name) says there are no psychics, then it must be true!
Nobody has to prove anything to you Tommy. Psychics have been around before you were born and they will be around way after you die.

And stop lying about you being bitter. Go read your own posts. Stop lying to yourself and get over it, get over yourself!!!
Only liars call others liars because they have no argument in the first place!

You're pretty pathetic. I mention James Randi and you start hyperventilating. What better way to find a fake, than with a guy who knows how to find fakery, because he's done it. Kind of like asking David Biedny to analyze video and photos, because he knows a lot about how to fake it. Kind of the same thing don't you think?

If there are psychics, they sure as hell aren't the kind you see parading around every day pretending to have powers beyond belief, and they certainly don't write books about how you too, can be psychic.

That is why this whole discussion is so laughable to me, because people like yourself are so easily riled up when people start to ask questions about proof.

I'm a very open minded person. I would accept proof if it were presented to me, but that's just it. What is proof? Well, it would start at being RIGHT more than 50 percent of the time, and it would certainly have to be something that could be quantified.

Like I said. On my table there are 5 zener cards. They are all face up. they are at the end of the table, and whatever so called remote viewer gets them right, I will test them 2 more times. 3 times right, and I'll concede. Hell, even 1 Time right and I'll concede.

So, all you would be remote viewers my table is yours. Come look at my cards, and tell me what you see. Of course, PairOfCats can play along too, after all I'm sure you know some gifted psychics don't you? After all, they've been here before me, and will be here after I'm gone right?

 

[Verum]

As a new guy on the boards let me send kudos to Tommy Allison and Aspie. I agree with their position. There has NEVER been a "psychic" feat of any kind that a novice cold reader or journeyman magician couldn't replicate...and better. The whole notion of remote viewing, psychic readings, and the hundred other related "inexplicable abilities" has been challenged and disproved so many times that it's hard to believe there are still believers. Even the notion that we only use 10% of our brain power has been disproved. Somehow, though, even Uri Geller still has disciples!

What bothers me most is that there's a risk that someone will actually take some of these people (some of whom may be very sincere in their belief that they have a special "gift") seriously and divert resources from a more rationally based approach to a problem or issue. That has happened countless times over the years. And, Dames is dangerous because he coats the chicanery with a thin veneer of credibility.

I like to think I have an open mind, but not one so open, as they say, that it allows my brains to spill out. And, as it relates to "psychic abilities" the current state of the evidence is clear; there's no such thing, using garden variety scientific methodologies. I suspect there's a lot left to learn about our mental capabilities and capacities, and the ability of our brain to generate its own "truths" from whole cloth. I think that's ultimately where we'll find the answers to many unanswered questions, from UFOs to psychic reading. But I don't think we'll find them as purely external phenomenon.

 

[Aspie]

If the government RV program worked then why did they shut it down? I know people will argue that how do we know they aren't still running it in secret. Well no one knows.

Some of the RV'ers who worked there say they've never heard of Major Dames and others verify that he was there. I take the side that he was involved but he wasn't a remote viewer. His job was to interpret the images and info that came from the real remote viewers. This has a problem in itself. You can take the same images and show them to two different people who have different outlooks on life, one a doom and gloomer like Dames and one a happy go lucky type of person. Both will interpret them in different ways. That is why when the team played a joke on Dames and told him they saw an object flying towards the US over the Artic, Dames went running to his superiors screaming there was a nuclear attack on its way. The truth was the target they gave him was Santa Claus and his reindeer.

Another problem is Dames claims his team make a fortune in Las Vegas remote viewing sports bets. Now if this is true why would you want to slog your guts out trying to sell dvd teaching courses, traveling all over the place appearing at conferences and doing talkshows. Surely it's much easier sitting in a fancy hotel room doing a bit of the old RV and letting the money role in from all your winning bets?

Then there is the Dames website. Try registering there and posting a serious question as to why RV doesn't work. The thread gets deleted in minutes and your name gets banned. Oh but you will still be constantly spammed by email with all the new products Dames is selling. I have lost count the number of times I have asked politely and then demanded I be taken off their email list. Nothing works, I still get his crap in my inbox.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

If the government RV program worked then why did they shut it down? I know people will argue that how do we know they aren't still running it in secret. Well no one knows.

Some of the RV'ers who worked there say they've never heard of Major Dames and others verify that he was there. I take the side that he was involved but he wasn't a remote viewer. His job was to interpret the images and info that came from the real remote viewers. This has a problem in itself. You can take the same images and show them to two different people who have different outlooks on life, one a doom and gloomer like Dames and one a happy go lucky type of person. Both will interpret them in different ways. That is why when the team played a joke on Dames and told him they saw an object flying towards the US over the Artic, Dames went running to his superiors screaming there was a nuclear attack on its way. The truth was the target they gave him was Santa Claus and his reindeer.

Another problem is Dames claims his team make a fortune in Las Vegas remote viewing sports bets. Now if this is true why would you want to slog your guts out trying to sell dvd teaching courses, traveling all over the place appearing at conferences and doing talkshows. Surely it's much easier sitting in a fancy hotel room doing a bit of the old RV and letting the money role in from all your winning bets?

Then there is the Dames website. Try registering there and posting a serious question as to why RV doesn't work. The thread gets deleted in minutes and your name gets banned. Oh but you will still be constantly spammed by email with all the new products Dames is selling. I have lost count the number of times I have asked politely and then demanded I be taken off their email list. Nothing works, I still get his crap in my inbox.

I can't say much for the rest, because it doesn't surprise me. But as far as being confronted with unwanted mail, what you want to do is complain to the ISP and/or host. Spam is spam.

 

[MotorCity]

Took me a couple days to find it, but on the Sept. 18 C2C, a guy called in and told GN he wanted him to hold Dames feet to the fire on his predictions never being right.
the caller says that Dames' recent prediction that Fossett is dead is convenient, since it came four days after fossett was missing.

GN says well if they find Fossett in the location that Dames' says he's in, they have to give Dames kudos.

caller said he'd give dames kudos, but he hasn't found one thing to give him kudos on. said he's gone back and listened to some shows with dames with art bell and all of the stuf he predicted didn't happen.

gn says he went after dames for being wrong about bin laden being dead and some natalie holloway(sp?)/aruba story.
so the caller says, well what has he gotten right?

gn says: "Here's part of the problem. he talks in undated terms."
gn then gives an example that if he said a chunk of the moon is going to fall off, he might never be proven wrong.

EXACTLY! I thought gn stepped in a bear trap with that statement. So Dames can say ANYTHING and never be right, but that somehow makes him a credible guest to keep having on? HUH?

caller and gn go back and forth for a few more minutes about dames' credibility, then gn says he remembers dames once telling him how mold would be a problem in the southeast and that dames was right about that. caller shot back that he has a degree in microbiology and mold is always a problem in a lot of places. gn laughs and ends it by saying he'll call dames out when he's wrong. "we'll do it. we'll do it. trust me we'll do it."

 

[The Pair of Cats]

If there are psychics, they sure as hell aren't the kind you see parading around every day pretending to have powers beyond belief, and they certainly don't write books about how you too, can be psychic.

Tommy. I respect your right to an opinion about psychics, whatever that maybe and whether it conflicts with my own or not. It's all good!
It matters not, to me, that you have a vehement dislike for psychics or so called psychic abilities, that's cool.

I do know several gifted psychics. They are not 100% accurate all or even part of the time, in fact i don't know exactly how accurate they are.
They do their work, they don't advertise. People come to them for whatever reason. Police have even been known to use them in some cases, to what degree of success, i don't know. They charge no fee but people have been known to bestow gifts upon them for their efforts. Why? You have to ask those who give the gifts why.

I also know plenty of people who think that this all bunk or BS, such as you and others posting on this thread and yours and their opinions are quite acceptable to me. My opinion, in favour of psychics is not the only or the right one, but it is mine!!!

Proving any psychic ability or existence to you is not important because whether you find that proof or not is not going to change the existence of the phenomena one bit. Your opinion does not decide the rise and fall of psychics or their believers.

You can sit at your table with your Zener cards and wait for as long as you like for a response to your challenge but people as, we speak are visiting their local soothsayer or tarot card reader for whatever reason or trying out a remote viewing course with a well respected, trained remote viewer somewhere and gaining something in their experience, one way or another. You can't stop that.

If you are really serious about your challenge contact Joe McMoneagle, or Lyn Buchanan, Ingo Swann, Dr. Hal Puthoff, Paul Smith and offer it to them and see what kind of response you get. After all they are some of the people responsible for the US Military Remote viewing program.
I am sure they would be interested on your foray into RV via Major Ed Dames Correspondence course and could probably advise you on a better course of action in that area!

 

[Ralph]

Hi guys. Very interested in the debate about remote viewing. I was first introduced to Remote Viewing at a conference in Sydney, Australia in 2002 by Skip Atwater, the operations and training officer for the US military remote viewing effort.

Since then I have read every book by credible remote viewers that I can get my hands on, and researched the topic extensively. I firmly believe that RV is the most accessible, repeatable paranormal activity to the average person.

Remote viewing is about a very specific protocol, developed by SRI and refined by the military viewers. Please do not judge the measure the field by a single in-credible Mr Dames.

I have demonstrated probably an average beginner capability, (occasional great hit, some good hits, lots of misses). It takes a lot of practice and training to improve - some people do 5 targets a day. If you are serious about investigating remote viewing and want to see what some viewers are capable of, Get yourself a free registration to The Ten Thousand Roads Project RV tools. Even better, give it a go yourself.

 

[Poi]

Actually, Paul Smith has just published a Dowsing DVD set I did purchase because I'm interested. I'm not comfortable with actually trying to remote view because the protocol is so very regimented. If I can't attend a class with experts in attendance, I'm not interested. Would have to drive pretty far to do it so it isn't worth my time.

Dowsing, as explained by Smith, is the art of allowing one's subconscious to answer questions. Very small movements, supposedly directed by the subconscious direct one to answers, but if that's true, it isn't easy either. If I never "get it" however, that won't disprove the art. I tend to believe I'm not good at this sort of thing so self sabotage is probably directly related.

Everything takes practice. My friend who is pretty good at RV has been practicing for many years. It didn't come naturally and in Lynn Buchanan he had expert help.

Thanks for the link, Ralph. Looks very interesting.

 

[Apocalypto]

Does Noory or Bell ever follow-up on any of Dames' predictions? It seems like every time he's on, there's some timely search he says he'll put his team on, then you never hear about it again. Granted, I'm not a regular C2C listener, but that's the impression I've gotten.

-todd.

That's the trick. You have Ed Dames on your radio show, get him to make a bunch of dramatic predictions, then report back on them later if they're anywhere near correct, or ignore them if they weren't. The public has an attention span of about 3 nanoseconds, so it's highly unlikely that they will remember the incorrect predictions.

 

[Brian Now]

Listening to C2C, and Georgey-poo just said he would "take to task" Sylvia Brown and Ed Dames if they came back on....Sylvia for glaring, known mistakes, and Dames if he turns out to be wrong about Fossett.

He also mentioned Dames himself said if he was wrong about Fossett it was a "Career-breaker"

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Listening to C2C, and Georgey-poo just said he would "take to task" Sylvia Brown and Ed Dames if they came back on....Sylvia for glaring, known mistakes, and Dames if he turns out to be wrong about Fossett.

He also mentioned Dames himself said if he was wrong about Fossett it was a "Career-breaker"

Too little too late George. I'm curious at the lame task he'll do when they are on though. Hopefully Aspie will throw it up on his site, so I don't have to sit through that freakin show and it's 15 minutes or more of commercials (each break).

 

[herigonz]

Straying from the topic but curious about the original statement...was Fossett's body/crash site ever found?

 

[Brian Now]

Straying from the topic but curious about the original statement...was Fossett's body/crash site ever found?

Amazingly not yet, even though I keep hearing about them identifying new search sites based on satellite imagery.

If the wreckage isn't found by the end of the year, how long do you guys think it will take people to start the conspiracy theories?

 

[Aspie]

Sorry Paranormal Packrat but I stopped listening to C2C a while ago. It just got boring with the same old crap all the time. I can't sit listening to Dames and Morton spew their stuff any more.

I think I compiled enough evidence to prove that these guys are full of it.

 

[Verum]

Tommy Allison wrote..

NOT ONE person has collected on James Randi's challenge

The problem is that Randi's protocols are far too complex and difficult for anyone to meet. I'd suggest we simplify them to this, "If any psychic can find his/her ass with both hands, they win!" Dames, Brown and most of the others still wouldn't collect.